They added in more rng so sniping this patch! Sniping is now even harder and even less viable!

(chickenNwaffles) #21

Lol, you are ignorant. Please go back to your 8v8 pubs where anything goes. Competitive scene is waay different than pubs.

(quickMicrowave) #22

sniper rifle sway is not exactly a brand new concept in the eyes of FPS genre - not exactly surprising and i am fine with it

however - jumping and remaining scoped = hilarious and does not make too much sense.

although the game is not trying to be extremely realistic, try jumping and shooting a rifle while holding it at your eye level… let me know how that works out for you :smiley:

(son!) #23

K after about an ~90 minutes of vasilli only I find I actually like the change. Close-mid range stuff feels the same (i am flick heavy so having a bigger target is easier to center-up w/ or w/out minor sway so not too surprising). Long range sniping on the other hand is noticeably more difficult while moving. Difficulty comes in making the small correction to compensate sway while trying to strafe aim, which was expected, so if i get a hit it’s more often a body shot rather than head.
Makes vas more vulnerable in long range because he needs to be stationary to be consistently dealing out ohks. Making snipers, especially at long range, more vulnerable is a good thing IMO as the class has historically been about less risk.

(chickenNwaffles) #24

[quote=“son!;15991”]K after about an ~90 minutes of vasilli only I find I actually like the change. Close-mid range stuff feels the same (i am flick heavy so having a bigger target is easier to center-up w/ or w/out minor sway so not too surprising). Long range sniping on the other hand is noticeably more difficult while moving. Difficulty comes in making the small correction to compensate sway while trying to strafe aim, which was expected, so if i get a hit it’s more often a body shot rather than head.
Makes vas more vulnerable in long range because he needs to be stationary to be consistently dealing out ohks. Making snipers, especially at long range, more vulnerable is a good thing IMO as the class has historically been about less risk.[/quote]

You seem to forget that in comp, that vassili is a HIGH risk pick (why field a sniper over another fragger?), and the only way to make vassili as effective as a fragger (as good as any other class) is to play in aggressively while always moving and changing positions. A stationary (camping) sniper is something that teams can play around very easily.

(Ceres) #25

Perfect.

(ToonBE) #26

[quote=“chickenNwaffles;15993”][quote=“son!;15991”]K after about an ~90 minutes of vasilli only I find I actually like the change. Close-mid range stuff feels the same (i am flick heavy so having a bigger target is easier to center-up w/ or w/out minor sway so not too surprising). Long range sniping on the other hand is noticeably more difficult while moving. Difficulty comes in making the small correction to compensate sway while trying to strafe aim, which was expected, so if i get a hit it’s more often a body shot rather than head.
Makes vas more vulnerable in long range because he needs to be stationary to be consistently dealing out ohks. Making snipers, especially at long range, more vulnerable is a good thing IMO as the class has historically been about less risk.[/quote]

You seem to forget that in comp, that vassili is a HIGH risk pick (why field a sniper over another fragger?), and the only way to make vassili as effective as a fragger (as good as any other class) is to play in aggressively while always moving and changing positions. A stationary (camping) sniper is something that teams can play around very easily.[/quote]

No offense, but you r just butt hurt that your main merc got nerfed rendering him harder to use. Vasili is NOT a risky pick in comp as you can stay completely out of the action and get kills. The wallhack ability is incredibly useful as well in comp. Vas is a support class and not a heavy class.

You should not be able to jump and adad and w/e when scoping. That is just too easy… Vasilli requires some extra skill right now and that is not a bad thing.

(einstyle) #27

the ‘Fragger is better anyway’ comparison is getting annoying btw, by that logic every other merc should never be nerfed or tweaked

still don’t appreciate the scope sway change, the mobility made the Sniper somewhat unique from other games

(Szakalot) #28

[quote=“carefulCoral;16020”]the ‘Fragger is better anyway’ comparison is getting annoying btw, by that logic every other merc should never be nerfed or tweaked

still don’t appreciate the scope sway change, the mobility made the Sniper somewhat unique from other games[/quote]

aye, vassili had that QW-like functionality of jumping around and flickshoting. Didn’t play him yet but it sounds like a change that made him very, very boring

(Kroad) #29

[quote=“ToonBE;15998”]
No offense, but you r just butt hurt that your main merc got nerfed rendering him harder to use. Vasili is NOT a risky pick in comp as you can stay completely out of the action and get kills.[/quote]
Then why do barely any of the top teams use snipers if it’s such an easy pick?
Because sure, vasili isn’t a risky pick in comp in terms of the vasili’s kd ratio, but who gives a fuck about kd in comp. Sitting far back and getting a pick here and there is not enough.
Vasili is a low hp merc with a chance of oneshotting people, while other mercs have higher hp, dps and are easier to use (sky/fragger/nader/etc). I don’t believe you’ve played with a vasili on your team in comp but if you do, tell him to sit back and see how useful he is.

It’ll be very interesting to see how many people snipe in the cup, and how well they do compared to other fragging roles.

Two medics, two fragging roles, and one obj/fragging role is what most people run, and is the most effective combination.
So where does the support role fit in there? On defense, the obj player could switch to vasili (but he could also switch to any fragging role), but on offense, there is no place for a support role. You either lose out on an obj player, needed to complete objs, or on a heavier fragging class, needed to get kills, or on a medic, needed to keep the fragging classes alive.
For a vasili to be useful, he needs to be able to frag well enough to replace a fragging role, which he only barely managed before the patch, and most definitely will not manage now.

Having to stand still does not take any extra skill - hell, sniping while standing still is easier than when moving. If anything, this lowered the skillcap of vasilis because this change made sniping while moving very inconsistant due to the random skill sway.
Furthermore, vasili is in my opinion one of the most skillful mercs in the game, on account of others not being all that hard either. Saying that vasili should be harder to use is absolutely retarded when you take a merc that’s barely useful in the first place and “raise his skillcap” without actually buffing him in any way in return. Because if a merc is barely useful, making him harder to use will make him go from barely useful to not useful, unless you make him harder to use by rewarding higher skilled players, which this update does not do.

Not sure if that last part was very clear but not sure I can formulate it much better.

(son!) #30

[quote=“chickenNwaffles;15993”]

You seem to forget that in comp, that vassili is a HIGH risk pick (why field a sniper over another fragger?), and the only way to make vassili as effective as a fragger (as good as any other class) is to play in aggressively while always moving and changing positions. A stationary (camping) sniper is something that teams can play around very easily.[/quote]

You choose sniper over fragger if the situation calls for it, hence he’s a situational pick. In a class based game you typically find a bread and butter team comp with one or two players playing a ‘flex position’. Mercs like vasilli, and now nader, fit into those flex positions as they are not generally optimal (optimal in this game being some product of HP, damage per clip, and ease of use). Vas is still a perfectly viable pick, he still has the same ol` heartbeat sensor and the sway mechanic has a small effect on close aggressive play. It’s defensive sniping more than anything that’s getting nerfed as a stationary target is easier to land shots on.

(adeto) #31

Sniping is one of the easiest thing to do in this game… Glad they nerfed it especially with people like you who literally can’t play any other class and then go full crybaby when the only thing they are average at gets nerfed because it’s so easy to do that a donkey can do it.

(Darkcola) #32

One thing I never understood:
the sniper is supposed to be LONG RANGE support, yet his tracking device makes him have to get up closer than what I personally would think smart for a SNIPER.

(watsyurdeal) #33

I do think jumpscoping should have been nerfed, tf2 and blacklight don’t have it either so…yea.

Though I don’t believe the large caliber sniper rifle should have been nerfed, nor do I think strafe sniping should have been either. Personally, I feel like the strafe should have only been added to the Felix, to compensate for its higher damage. And the other Rifle should have been untouched.

That way you two very different feeling rifles. One that’s more stationary and the other more mobile.

Though I also don’t think vasilli needs so much health…but I think I say that only because the secondary is so good, tolten mp I think it is?

(Milky Mac) #34

i mean getting kills is sort of an important part of the game
[/quote]

Snipers are actually alot more viable then some of the supports to be honest. I good sniper can render medics useless. HS are insta gibs, and its so easy to stop an enemy planting or defusing from across the map.

And to everyone saying it was way to easy, no its not. QS and noscoping is litterally impossible or up to luck because the RNG they put into it unlike good games like CS. You have to fully aim for a little bit for it to actually go where you want it too.

(etherealJar) #35

I think the Vasili nerfs are justified.

This isn’t CS or BF. Regular weapons in Dirty Bomb have a huge fall off damage making 1vs1 against a good sniper pretty much impossible. He still kills with one bullet to the head. What more do you want??

Splash Damage isn’t balancing the game around your favorite Merc. Also, stop with the competitive scene argument. Not every Merc has to be viable for competitive, it never worked like that in ANY game. Besides, 90% of the player base will be pub players anyway, you can’t expect the metagame to cater only to the remaining 10%.

(Zenity) #36

Another thing is, while I understand that fans of Vassili would be upset if he drops out of the meta, that wouldn’t necessarily be bad for the game.

Snipers are always controversial because they don’t offer a lot of counter-play. You get picked off and you are dead, that’s it. They can be fun to play, but are not all that much fun to play against. If you make them as effective as other weapons, like in CS, then one permanent sniper is almost a necessity at all times and it heavily affects the character of the game. That is why nobody complained that the sniper rifle in RTCW and ET was only ever used in exceptional situations (and it kind of sucked).

Not every merc will make it to the meta obviously, and especially the “outliers” which are really different to the average merc will be at risk of dropping out at any given time. For that reason, and with all due respect, I would strongly recommend to any competitive player not to get too attached to any merc like that. There is still going to be the odd map or situation where he will always be an option.

(god1) #37

[quote=“etherealJar;16262”]I think the Vasili nerfs are justified.

This isn’t CS or BF. Regular weapons in Dirty Bomb have a huge fall off damage making 1vs1 against a good sniper pretty much impossible. He still kills with one bullet to the head. What more do you want??[/quote]
The strafing sway is ridiculously overdone.
Also if you’re losing straight up duels against Vassilis it means that they got lucky or you don’t know how to fight him.

(chickenNwaffles) #38

[quote=“Zenity;16268”]Another thing is, while I understand that fans of Vassili would be upset if he drops out of the meta, that wouldn’t necessarily be bad for the game.

Snipers are always controversial because they don’t offer a lot of counter-play. You get picked off and you are dead, that’s it. They can be fun to play, but are not all that much fun to play against. If you make them as effective as other weapons, like in CS, then one permanent sniper is almost a necessity at all times and it heavily affects the character of the game. That is why nobody complained that the sniper rifle in RTCW and ET was only ever used in exceptional situations (and it kind of sucked).

Not every merc will make it to the meta obviously, and especially the “outliers” which are really different to the average merc will be at risk of dropping out at any given time. For that reason, and with all due respect, I would strongly recommend to any competitive player not to get too attached to any merc like that. There is still going to be the odd map or situation where he will always be an option.[/quote]

So explain to me how grenades, revive invincibility, overpowered lmgs, and airstrikes offer “fair” counterplay that is less frustrating than getting shot in the head by a sniper, because you had poor movement and gamesense. It takes a lot of skill to snipe, more than any of those “fair” abilities combined. The only real counterplay to a sniper is not being bad at the game. Learning how to abuse mechanics like aimpunch, crouch spamming, and frag nades are the reasons why sniping is too weak in this game. The only thing that kept Vassili even remotely viable in the competitive scene was the fact that he instagibbed on a headshot.

However, it requires too much effort to make Vassili a half worthwhile choice in a organized 5v5, as you can just play Fragger and have half of the skill, but still perform better than a Vassili. Afterall, the only thing Vassili provides is killing potential, and it takes a whole lot more effort to kill things as Vassili than it does why say, Fragger/nader/sky/aura/any fucking merc…

Things like jump-sniping and aggressive sniping kept the skill and effectiveness in sniping. However, with this patch, the skill ceiling for Vassili has been lowered tremendously, to the point where he is just not a viable pick. Please don’t post your ignorant opinions about competitive sniping when all of you have NEVER sniped in a high level, organized 5v5 before.

(Zenity) #39

[quote=“chickenNwaffles;16278”]
So explain to me how grenades, revive invincibility, overpowered lmgs, and airstrikes offer “fair” counterplay that is less frustrating than getting shot in the head by a sniper[/quote]

No big difference, all of these things could be dropping out of the meta at any time and the game wouldn’t necessarily be worse off for it (aside from revive invincibility, no idea why you dropped that in there). It would be foolish for any competitive player to become overly attached to any of those mechanics, especially considering that the available merc pool is going to grow continuously.

(chickenNwaffles) #40

[quote=“Zenity;16281”][quote=“chickenNwaffles;16278”]
So explain to me how grenades, revive invincibility, overpowered lmgs, and airstrikes offer “fair” counterplay that is less frustrating than getting shot in the head by a sniper[/quote]

No big difference, all of these things could be dropping out of the meta at any time and the game wouldn’t necessarily be worse off for it (aside from revive invincibility, no idea why you dropped that in there). It would be foolish for any competitive player to become overly attached to any of those mechanics, especially considering that the available merc pool is going to grow continuously.[/quote]

There you are wrong, these will not be dropping out of the meta anytime soon, however, Vassili will be. His instagib ability takes far more skill than any fragger nade could ever, but fro some reason people are intent on removing all the skill from sniping, while things like fragger nades are somehow “ok”.