actually, you can count the number of cheaters you believe you saw on one hand. you’ve actually “seen” far more and didn’t know it.
like i said, educate thyself. test cheats to know cheats (not with PB on though!!!). anybody who claims to know the first thing about cheating, without having any firsthand knowledge about it, is blowing smoke.
i can spout off about the Space Shuttle program, doesn’t mean i know anything about it, even if i have seen several launches on TV.
At the end of the day it’s about perception. Some people claim the game is being “ruined” by cheats. Either they’re playing a different game to me (which may well be the case if I’m playing on ETPro Stopwatch servers and they’re playing on multi-map Campaign Shrub servers) or they’re seeing cheats where they don’t exist. When you consider some of the accusations laid at the cheater’s door, like taking less damage, giving more damage (things which are technically impossible to do), you realise the perception of cheating is certainly more than the incidents of real cheating going on.
I’d like to think I can spot a cheat, and I can spot a cheat without needing to download one and try it. In general, if a player has an accuracy that doesn’t match his overall ability and movement I’d suspect a cheat. If I see someone with a high accuracy but he moves like a Q3 trick-jumper I’d assume he’s really that good. In any case I might spectate the guy for a bit, but to date I’ve never, ever, ever spec’ed a guy and thought he was cheating. But even if I’ve played against cheats without knowing it, they’ve not “ruined” my game, cos I can still compete and I still enjoy playing. The point of this thread was not to pretend cheats don’t exist, but to expel some of the myths surrounding cheating by explaining what can, and more specifically what can’t, be done with cheats. So that when you get owned on a server you needn’t immediately think “cheat”, as it seems so many do.
that’s why i made the smartass remark about seeing shuttle launches on tv yet still knowing nothing about the subject 
i’m of the opinion that until you’ve felt an aimbot whip your crosshair around, etc, you can’t really understand how they “feel”. i know i didn’t. i assumed they worked like the autoaim from half-life when you played the singleplayer on easy and it sortof gently guided your crosshair in the right direction and made your shots hit even if they were a bit off target, as long as they were still within the “close enough” area. but that’s not how they work at all, and i wouldn’t have been able to understand until i actually tried one. these things in et actually WHIP to the head like a magnet when you fire, and they stay glued on untill you release it - no amount of fancy footwork on the part of the other guy can escape your crosshair - there is no recourse when targetted by one, you CANNOT break free.
really nasty stuff, but easier to detect once you’ve tried it, IMO. i may be wrong, perhaps you are perceptive enough to get the lowdown by simply watching a demo, but i wasn’t.
i think that’s why some newbies think good players use them, because the skilled aimer is a skilled TRACKER, and if a newbie feels like he can’t manuever his way out of a situation, the other guy must be locked on with a bot. that’s the whole point of ET afterall - the bullets are basically harmless (compared to reality, where a single round would slice and dice your organs like a mixmaster), allowing you to dance your way out of a bad situation if you are fast enough. a good aimer can make you feel like you can’t escape sometimes, but you CAN tell the difference between a human and a bot if you know how.
but the fact is, no human is a superhuman. if someone is doing something you know isn’t possible (like staying TRULY LOCKED on target - can’t be done with human response time), they simply must be cheating. if not, we have a new race of man on this planet and should alert the authorities…
maybe, but i doubt it. again, you can spot what you THINK is a cheat, but having admittedly never seen or experienced one, you are essentially like a virgin talking about pussy. you might have watched and wanked to a thousand porno movies, but you still know nothing. you haven’t felt it, smelled it, tasted it.
as for accuracy, “match his overall ability” is somewhat misleading, as you yourself have stated several times that you are a very skilled medic, but not much of a shot (compared to your clanmates). so overall skill does not mean great aim; at the same time great aim doesn’t necessarily mean great overall skill. perhaps the player is just a young kid with fast reflexes, but he can’t walk and chew gum at the same time, so he stops in his tracks every time he meets the enemy (hey, it’s possible :P)
in terms of overall accuracy, however, believe it or not an aimbotter won’t necessarily have unbelievable accuracy. i’ve tested 3 of them, and didn’t get above 40%, but i beat my friend in 100% of our duels. this is because, obviously, the aimbot can’t make the shots more accurate - spread still applies to them. what it does is take over your responses. it responds to the enemy so you don’t have to. that will give YOU better accuracy than YOU normally get, but not better than any player in the world CAN get. also, they tend to lock on the head, and obviously you will get better accuracy aiming for the body. so in theory any average player could get way higher accuracy than an aimbot. just aim for the stomach and never gib. but an aimbot will basically get the same accuracy no matter who’s using it, assuming they’re using it “properly” (talk about a contradiction of terms. ‘proper aimbot usage’ - kinda sounds like ‘military intelligence’).
and btw before anyone gets on my case about testing cheats, as i explained before, i’ve only tried them on either my server, an empty server (and left if anyone else showed up - but that only happened once), or a declared cheat server. also remember that bani tests cheats in order to develop his anticheat. it’s called “know thy enemy”, and i don’t feel “guilty” or “dirty” for having educated myself. shocked and saddened, maybe…
Watching demos of known cheats should be enough imho.
Also, failing to delete a single file that is used by the cheat (even a plain text file) may get you kicked by PB even when you’re not cheating, and apparently MD5 kicks like that are accepted as evidence by leagues (at least some of them).
I was going to reply seriously, but then realised you are just a troll.
gg ouro
heh, i don’t even know what that shit MEANS. i’ve read the definitions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll) on the netiquette geek sites, but i don’t really care. i mean, since when are there different rules online than in reality? none of that foolishness applies to real life conversation - i am free to give my opinion to your face, why not here? i just talk, dude. if what i say falls into some neat little category called “trolling”, and filing me away into that slot helps you sleep at night, so be it.
i suggest you always reply seriously, or not at all. of course a joke is a joke, but to say “i was going to enter this discussion, but i’d rather call you a name” is a bit silly where i come from.
also, isn’t your post a perfect example of trolling? you posted simply to bring attention to the fact that you decided NOT to post? and you then proceeded to insult me? wasn’t the point of that to “sow discord”? as for my post, it was nothing of the sort. i was telling it like i see it. i simply cannot fathom how anyone can claim to be an expert on something they have no firsthand knowledge of, that’s all.
in short: stick it in your hiney
/shrug. i dunno, whatever. heh. (walks away rubbing chin and squinting)
if you decide to follow ouroboro’s point on trying a cheat, be very careful. you’d need to ensure you remove every trace of the cheat (and maybe even replace your cfg with a backup afterwards if it’s a client hook [if parts of it get installed to any ET folder]) afterwards. Nobody will be believing excuses if you make a mistake and eventually it gets detected.
in fact i dare say if you HAVN’T tested some hacks firsthand, you really have no business commenting on them at all, because you are uneducated on the topic.
i’m not inclined to agree with that at all, i tested one on a private server with a willing accomplice and didnt figure out anything i hadnt picked up from demos, screenshots and reading boards.
mmhm, might be useful to get a reasonable-lengh demo of a cheater, then offline record a vid from it with the most likely currently-undetected hack installed for illustration. Contraversial though, might do more harm than it’d be useful.
then i visit each server and check it’s cvar restrictions, if there are none, i move along. if there are league-ish restrictions, i add it to my favorites.
I also tend move swiftly along if they are these PB restrictions (pb_sv_cvar cg_thirdperson in 0 is the givaway).
i think that’s why some newbies think good players use them, because the skilled aimer is a skilled TRACKER, and if a newbie feels like he can’t manuever his way out of a situation, the other guy must be locked on with a bot.
yeah, and speccing some players leaves you thinking they have like sensitivity 20 and some nasty ball mouse, moving the crosshair about with such difficulty of control that it seems harder than when i was playing Quake with keys only. These guys must find it odd when they come accross players with good opticals and £20-30 mousemats. Or, how about when the server the teams are on has forcecvar r_drawfoliage 0, which doesnt take affect when watching it on demo/ETTV? Not knowing about “respectable” levels of tweaking being used probably helps the bad impressions too.
i understand what you mean there, but i don’t really have the luxury to be THAT particular. after i’ve applied the proper filters, i’m lucky to have a half dozen acceptable servers. it’s funny, 3000 et servers and you can count the ones worth connecting to on your fingers. 
but yeah, if i see one with some silly cvar restrictions like that, but as long as the proper restrictions are also there, that’s fine. it’s not like having those old silly engine-limited ones can HURT anything (even you said so on your VERY good server admin page, which i consider a must-read ;)).
Damn, I wish I had as much time to post on here nowadays as I used to, must try not to post just as I’m going out and don’t have time to explain myself properly.
I’m pretty sure I don’t need to install a cheat on my PC to be able to tell what one looks like, but even if that were the only true way I’d never do it. I’d be paranoid about some trace being left and being caught on a server. I’ve put almost 3 years into RTCW and ET and would like to think, at least on this side of the pond, that I’m known as a decent honest player. There’s not a snowball’s chance in hell I’m going to do anything to risk my reputation.
For me it comes down to the same old chestnut I keep banging on about. How much does cheating “ruin”, or even “affect” your game? For me it doesn’t affect it at all, not one bit, nada, zilch, etc. Med and XP-whores maybe, childish and lame behaviour definately, but cheats? Nope, sorry, not one little bit.
Damn, I wish I had as much time to post on here nowadays as I used to, must try not to post just as I’m going out and don’t have time to explain myself properly.
you mean you have better things to be doing while you’re at work 
Nope, but I’m on holiday now till 4th Jan, so I have many better things to be doing
that’s why i made the smartass remark about seeing shuttle launches on tv yet still knowing nothing about the subject
[/quote]
OTOH, you can be conversant in rocket science just by reading and understanding the published literature. Start with sutton :moo:
i’m of the opinion that until you’ve felt an aimbot whip your crosshair around, etc, you can’t really understand how they “feel”. i know i didn’t. i assumed they worked like the autoaim from half-life when you played the singleplayer on easy and it sortof gently guided your crosshair in the right direction and made your shots hit even if they were a bit off target, as long as they were still within the “close enough” area.
Just because you happened to be ignorant about how they work doesn’t mean everyone else is. And FWIW, there are many different ways they can work. You have experienced one of them. Do you suggest ‘trying’ them all ? How long do you have to try them for, with how many other people present before you can recognize them ? A slippery slope, IMO.
Some cheats are obvious and some are not. e.g. the speedhack I saw in CS:S the other night… cross the map and plant the bomb, while everyone else is just leaving spawn. No one in their right mind would question that was a cheat, whether they had used it or not. Some aimbots snap from head to head, and thus are obvious anyone, but that doesn’t mean that is the only way they can work.
Man, I’ve been gone for almost 4 months and this argument is still dragging on? Wow.
In the year and a half I played et, I never once had cheating ruin my ruin my fun, unlike some other games I’ve seen. I think that that says something about et itself and the et community.
Heh, caught my first hacker “in the wild” today. First time I’ve ever been suspicious of someone and he actually was cheating. Mind you, he had a global bind saying he was using a hack, so tha kinda made him stand out (though they’re normally used by kids who think it’s funny for some reason I’ve yet to fathom).
Took a demo:- http://www.markroper.co.uk/files/dave.dm_83 but just as the round finished and I stopped recording, he got kicked by PB!
nice that pb picked it up
Wish that had happened with the guy last week, funnily enough that guy was also spamming chat but he was informing us that he had a particular fondness for rammstein - a popular cornish folk band if I remember correctly
Looks like punkbuster has updated ,but not informed anyone via their website.
I wonder how many people will be caught out over the next couple of day’s
from watching the demo of dave, it looks as though it is a different hack cos he’s mainly landing body shots - the guy last week was all headshots
PB updates it’s detections seperately to the PB program updates. Often there’s a correlation though since sometimes they need to update the PB program for new methods (similar to how your antivirus updates it’s definitions frequently while the AV program itself probably only gets updated occasionally).
but have u an idea when pb for the server will be updated now?
thanks
macbeth