The Thunder Thread, and SD should make Thunder himself strong, not his nade.

(Tanker_Ray) #21

[quote=“bizarreRectangle;115922”]So I got my hands on thunder today, I didn’t play a lot but I played enough. His lmg is awesome. Spread is not much to worry about unless your aim is poor. Usually I can kill someone before spread gets very high, and if it becomes an issue I can ads to finish them off. Not to mention headshots on this thing. You just gotta make sure you don’t miss the first few shots, but that basically applies to any gun.

The magazine capacity is very large, even with that rpm. It’s enough to deal with at least 2 people, it’s tailor made for combination with the concussion grenades.

Compared to fragger you get more control over the fight, and I like that. Lmg is also my dream gun. Fragger is probably great at dealing with chunks, thunder perhaps smaller bits. If you know what I mean. I think they’re both good, fragger will keep his king of the hill spot though. And I think that’s fine.[/quote]

So sad that only part that I can agree with you is ‘‘gotta make sure you don’t miss the first few shots, but that basically applies to any gun’’, and LMG is my dream gun too.

‘Unless your aim is poor’ statement was very funny, as I’m hardly maintaining my K/D at 2.0 and having 3.7 kills/min. As much as I love Thunder, I am suffering so hard.

Have you tried using Kek-10 after using this LMG? There is so much definite problems whenever you face jumping female characters. Whatever advantage the MK.46 gets, ‘‘that basically applies to any gun’’ like you said, except that 85 rounds box magazine.

Use concussion, free damage deal enemies, yes of course you can handle two. Problem is there is so many situations that non-concussed enemy teams show up while you are shooting concussed ones, and 132DPS with high bullet spread is just not enough to finish the situation fast, also your low HP compared to hitbox makes you even not able to tank all of them. Even you concuss them all, you can’t even finish more than 3. Most of the time you just finish off one or two. If there is enemy medic, you have to use even more bullets to finish them, furthermore time for just that.

I really gotta say the only useful time to use Thunder is when you concuss all of them, and you and your team mates all go in and clear the situation. BUT the fact that concussionade flashbangs team mates also bothers this strategy.

Anyway, I can’t still find any reason why should MK.46 have low damage high bullet spread, even I’m doing quite fine with this gun. What is the reason of that, and why should I suffer for it?? For example, minigun have couple of handicaps for 300 DPS and 200HP. So what advantage do I get when I use MK.46, sacrificing recoil, damage, and DPS?? Lower damage AND DPS, higher recoil than K-121, Just for one 85rounds of box magazine?? This is definitely not acceptable.

The more you use him, you are going to have really hard time killing high skilled people, especially female characters with shotguns,also especially Remburg. Far distance is just SO SO, good for headshotting stationary people’s head, but this is also ‘‘basically applies to any gun’’. It ,makes this gun much worse than rifles that you suffer like other SMGs at Chapel’s final stage. I admit ironsight is comfortable, but that’s all. 4.1 reload speed for all this? I would just reload Kek-10 twice. It is just absurd this gun is machine gun, and only useful for close - mid range distance, that is worse close range fight than shotgun, worse mid range than rifle, worse accuracy than SMG.

Even I don’t convince every people, I believe statisics about Thunder such as pick rate or score/min will going to tell.

(Tanker_Ray) #22

I am struggling so hard with MK.46 nowadays, but this thought, ‘Why don’t you just play Fragger instead?’ always questioned me all the time.

I am having much better result with K-121 K51 Power Gunner Fragger, and Bushwhacker with Kek-10 as usual.

Thunder’s base HP tankyness, Concussionade, own Primary weapon is all vastly inferior than Fragger.

Today I used M62 Power rifleman card Fragger after playing Thunder, and very long time passed since I stopped using it.

150HP Fragger with much smaller hitbox and Unshakable augment feels MUCH more tankier than Thunder, M4 that covers all distances gave me so much comfort, and also Frag with Explodendyron brought so much firepower.

I was suppressed whenever I used my concussionade, because it felt like every time I throw it, it’s like very urgent time-attack that I have to kill as many enemies I could in short time, and retreat back. I felt free after using M62 and K51 Fragger.

I was able to destroy anyone who had lower skill than me with Thunder, but it just simply applies to anyone. Like MK.46’s advantage applies to any gun except the huge 85 rounds.

Guess I’ll have to wait for his buff, and let him rest in my Barracks.

(Reddeadcap) #23

Funnily enough, if you look at Thunder and Fragger you can see them holding each other’s LMGs, as they were back in alpha, also the removal of the mouse sensitivity effect makes no sense.

(bizarreRectangle) #24

What do you do with the lmg that makes you struggle so much? I top frag or nearly top frag a lot of my games with lmg thunder.

(neverplayseriou) #25

@bizarreRectangle I can also top frag with a proxy almost every game, it’s a pub…

(bizarreRectangle) #26

That wasn’t the point, was simply saying that I can do perfectly fine with the lmg.

(watsyurdeal) #27

To me, like I said before, and this is similar problem with the K 121, the gun blooms fast and I’m fine with that, but tapfire is worthless since even with careful control the spread will cause you to miss your shots. And the time it takes for it fully settle is too long, you’ll be dead by that time.

(neverplayseriou) #28

@bizarreRectangle and as I said everything can do perfectly fine in a pub…

(bizarreRectangle) #29

Okay then? If that’s it, I guess we’re done here.

(Tanker_Ray) #30

Funnily enough, if you look at Thunder and Fragger you can see them holding each other’s LMGs, as they were back in alpha, also the removal of the mouse sensitivity effect makes no sense.

SD decided to change their weapons, because back then, MK.46 had MUCH lower bullet spread with 12 damage, 145 DPS.

This Weapon with FRAGGER with TWO FRAGS. Total OMG.

So they changed the weapon, Thunder got a better firepower, but his 160HP was still meh.

Thunder was still considered worse than Fragger even he got that massive un-nerfed MK.46 because of ridiculous HP amount.

and Open Beta came, December first hotfix, Thunder went Underground.

I am pretty sure Thunder is licking the mantle nowadays.

What I just wanted to explain was, even Thunder gets that previous MK.46 with 145 DPS and low bullet spread, NOTHING is going to change.

(Szakalot) #31

not sure how useful going back like this is: back then frag nades were nowhere near the nukes they are now.

(JJMAJR) #32

Thunder was meant to counter other tanks. He’s also more support class than assault, so that friendly fire is not helping with that. If he needs nerfs to accommodate that BS gimmick gone, do it immediately. Also, he needs to be able to reduce mouse sensitivity again.

Thunder literally needs the following:
-No friendly fire.
-A size change.
-Be able to reduce mouse sensitivity to make more lethal classes less of a problem for him.

And either…
-More killing power…
Or…
-A support ability…

All of this would make him competent again.

Those mechanics were the only things that could counter what Rhinos can do with a competent team. And Rhinos, they can do a lot. Thunder has a niche just waiting for him. And not only that, he can also be powerful against more well-defended areas as well. There just has to be a way to make him take this opportunity.

(Tanker_Ray) #33

[quote=“JJMAJR;121674”]Thunder was meant to counter other tanks. He’s also more support class than assault, so that friendly fire is not helping with that. If he needs nerfs to accommodate that BS gimmick gone, do it immediately. Also, he needs to be able to reduce mouse sensitivity again.

Thunder literally needs the following:
-No friendly fire.
-A size change.
-Be able to reduce mouse sensitivity to make more lethal classes less of a problem for him.

And either…
-More killing power…
Or…
-A support ability…

All of this would make him competent again.

Those mechanics were the only things that could counter what Rhinos can do with a competent team. And Rhinos, they can do a lot. Thunder has a niche just waiting for him. And not only that, he can also be powerful against more well-defended areas as well. There just has to be a way to make him take this opportunity.[/quote]

-More killing power…

Definitely this.

But I would have to disagree about Size change and Support ability.

Thunder is meant to be Heavy Infantry, he has to remind enemies that he is one bulky tanky Juggernaut.

He just need more HP. Yes, he can be more tanky with smaller hitbox, evading bullets like female merc does, but that doesn’t fit his own style.

Also, Assault with Support ability choice? I completely disagree.

Fragger and Nader helps team by killing more enemies, NOT supporting team.

Rhino doesn’t have explosives, but he is strongest merc of all time at close range. Highest DPS, highest HP. Well Rhino is quite situational, but still he is used by DB users because Rhino is extremely powerful even at limited situation.

Thunder’s HP buff and roll-back of massive MK.46 is top priority. NOT his nade.

Thunder himself has to be strong.

He just need more HP and better primary weapon firepower, but not as much as Rhino.

Thunder should be able to win most of 1 vs 1, even Fragger but not Rhino.

If SD just roll-back his nade without changing his HP and MK.46, he will be team-supporting sneaky Assault, totally acting opposite compared to his bodysize.

I did have good stats with Thunder, 2.2 total K/D with Concussing people and mowing down. Yes this is good. But I really hate this style.

I want Thunder to be ballsy, not waiting for his damn short 17 sec nade, only seeking oppurtunities when concussionade is successful.

May be Thunder will be useful again if they roll-back the December 1st hotfix, but I really hate the fact this big guy like Thunder will be acting like a pxssy again.

He shouldn’t be so much concussionade-depending. Like Fragger is strong against any other mercs even without his frag, Thunder should be stronger than Fragger, but weaker than Rhino without his concussionade.

Basic HP stat, MK.46’s basic damage, recoil stat buff.

This is all Thunder needs. I’ll be glad to absorb damage for my team as an frontline Assault, if his HP is high enough, and MK.46 with decent Firepower=DPS.

I wish Thunder will overwhelm Fragger without any skills, but with basic stats and weaponry at some point of time in future…

(Reddeadcap) #34

So is Thunder worth getting anymore without the ability to stun players?

I would’ve thought that Thunder would keep the mouse sensitivity, movement speed decreasing effects, and warbled vision on his grenades and the blinding would’ve been scrapped. Hoping that it’d be around and used with a brought back Dazzler from the dead as the Flashbang with 2 LMGs in his loadouts merc since all things considered believe it or not concussion grenades =/= Flashbangs.
By the looks of it, nope…

I really hope that isn’t going to be permanent as the mouse sensitivity effect made perfect sense and the complaining that it was too powerful was from people who didn’t get used to the character, along with the conc grenades, especially their blinding effect were a bit too easily triggered.

Then again, that is the mentality of a new merc being released: Schrodinger’s Merc.
The merc is new and I don’t know how to fight it so it’s OP, The merc is now nerfed or worse considered UP when only the people complaining about them in the first place use them for once.

A personal gripe that makes my eyes twitch is every time I see Fragger and Thunder being depicted on the merc selection screen with their original LMGs, along with concept art, Especially with the changes done to the K-121 it does feel like the more Thunder friendly weapon and the the same can be said about Fragger and the Mk46.

@MissMurder is there any clarification on this or when the newest update will be around the corner?

(Robtastic) #35

@Redcap
Truth has been spoken.
Thank you.

@MissMurder @stayfreshshoe
Those (@Redcap 's post above) are some really good things to think about. Please let the devs know. :smile:

(Tanker_Ray) #36

[quote=“Redcap;122043”]So is Thunder worth getting anymore without the ability to stun players?

I would’ve thought that Thunder would keep the mouse sensitivity, movement speed decreasing effects, and warbled vision on his grenades and the blinding would’ve been scrapped. Hoping that it’d be around and used with a brought back Dazzler from the dead as the Flashbang with 2 LMGs in his loadouts merc since all things considered believe it or not concussion grenades =/= Flashbangs.
By the looks of it, nope…

I really hope that isn’t going to be permanent as the mouse sensitivity effect made perfect sense and the complaining that it was too powerful was from people who didn’t get used to the character, along with the conc grenades, especially their blinding effect were a bit too easily triggered.

Then again, that is the mentality of a new merc being released: Schrodinger’s Merc.
The merc is new and I don’t know how to fight it so it’s OP, The merc is now nerfed or worse considered UP when only the people complaining about them in the first place use them for once.

A personal gripe that makes my eyes twitch is every time I see Fragger and Thunder being depicted on the merc selection screen with their original LMGs, along with concept art, Especially with the changes done to the K-121 it does feel like the more Thunder friendly weapon and the the same can be said about Fragger and the Mk46.

@MissMurder is there any clarification on this or when the newest update will be around the corner?[/quote]

Very ironic since MK.46 was considered far superior than K-121 before… and now it’s opposite.

Well the CC is absolutely reasonable, but I think what made people mad was Thunder’s nade Cooldown. Strong CC with 17sec CD… I still think this is way too short, even SD roll-back the sensitivity removal.

But, still funny most of them weren’t annoyed whenever Fragger killed them(may be even bunch of more) with same 17sec CD. May be concussioning or direct hit flashbang felt way irritating than instant Frag kill for them. I don’t know…

What a nice comment by the way.

There is no thundering lightning inside enemy’s head right now… sad that only blinding thunder remains.

(Reddeadcap) #37

I’ve asked Shoe (Repeatedly infact) if the removal of the mouse sensitivity is permanent, apparently nothing is set in stone, so we can hope for them to come back.
The blinding on the other hand I think we can all agree that is worth losing with warbled vision and mouse/movement speed decreased.

(Szakalot) #38

seriously leave the mouse sensitivity alone. there are so many different ways that can make concussion nades strong without causing arm injuries to the opponents.

there is a difference between strong/balanced and fucking annoying

(Gung-ho) #39

Might be an odd suggestion but perhaps buffing Thunder’s movement speed is the best option. Tbh a merc with the conc grenade should actually be an agile merc able to enter and exit battle quickly. Not some fat lumbering fella with an lmg which is what Thunder is. Conc grenade play would be based around jumping in and being able to get a couple kills and get out if necessary before the flashees recover enough, or with team mate support clear the whole room relatively safely.

The more I think about DB the more I disagree with the way they have made soldiers aka assault “killers”. Well I disagree with the whole merc system lol.

(JJMAJR) #40

[quote=“ThunderPro;121962”]Thunder is meant to be Heavy Infantry, he has to remind enemies that he is one bulky tanky Juggernaut.

He just need more HP. Yes, he can be more tanky with smaller hitbox, evading bullets like female merc does, but that doesn’t fit his own style.

Also, Assault with Support ability choice? I completely disagree.

Fragger and Nader helps team by killing more enemies, NOT supporting team.[/quote]
You are playing Thunder like he’s supposed to play like a damage tank. I’d say that he should be played more intelligently than that, after all Naders don’t play like a damage tank either.

Also, assaults can help the team by making enemies easier to kill as well. Rhino provides a big distraction that makes the rest of the team less likely to get killed. Fragger and Nader take out corner campers and heavily fortified defenses with teammates. Thunder takes out what normally would be impossible to destroy or deal with.

“but that doesn’t fit his own style.”
Who says it doesn’t? What does he say, or how does he play, in order to validate this kind of idea?

[quote=“ThunderPro;121962”]Rhino doesn’t have explosives, but he is strongest merc of all time at close range. Highest DPS, highest HP. Well Rhino is quite situational, but still he is used by DB users because Rhino is extremely powerful even at limited situation.

Thunder’s HP buff and roll-back of massive MK.46 is top priority. NOT his nade.

Thunder himself has to be strong.

He just need more HP and better primary weapon firepower, but not as much as Rhino.

Thunder should be able to win most of 1 vs 1, even Fragger but not Rhino.

If SD just roll-back his nade without changing his HP and MK.46, he will be team-supporting sneaky Assault, totally acting opposite compared to his bodysize.[/quote]
If I could give an idea…

New Thunder ability: Tactical Flashlight
Stuns enemies that you are fighting. 8 second cooldown, 4 second duration.

Again, would make Thunder able to fit what he’s supposed to do more easily. And, you can go face with it.

Again, just adapt to what this style of play is like. Thunder doesn’t need to be a class where the only effective counter to him is himself, when he can deal with things that normally everyone dies to. He should 1v1 a Rhino, but not a Fragger.

I also started to learn what the niche of Redeye is. You just need to know when to use him. However, I still find him weak, he could at least track people’s trails and counter some of the dancing crap that Proxies and speedsters do. That would make him a good class.

The same could be said about Thunder. You need to learn how to play him, and seems like you have a moderate idea of when he would be viable. Just practice with the other mercs until you find times when you would really have liked a Thunder instead of what you were playing.

[quote=“ThunderPro;121962”]I want Thunder to be ballsy, not waiting for his damn short 17 sec nade, only seeking oppurtunities when concussionade is successful.

May be Thunder will be useful again if they roll-back the December 1st hotfix, but I really hate the fact this big guy like Thunder will be acting like a pxssy again.[/quote]
Maybe he is a coward, which is why he wears that much armor. He did try changing his identity too, implied by his biography.

[quote=“ThunderPro;121962”]He shouldn’t be so much concussionade-depending. Like Fragger is strong against any other mercs even without his frag, Thunder should be stronger than Fragger, but weaker than Rhino without his concussionade.

Basic HP stat, MK.46’s basic damage, recoil stat buff.

This is all Thunder needs. I’ll be glad to absorb damage for my team as an frontline Assault, if his HP is high enough, and MK.46 with decent Firepower=DPS.

I wish Thunder will overwhelm Fragger without any skills, but with basic stats and weaponry at some point of time in future…[/quote]
Thunder and Fragger’s abilities have very different purposes. Maybe Thunder should use the battle rifles instead of his current weapons, besides his LMG; it would make the Assault classes have more diversity and make Thunder stronger in terms of his fighting potential.

Especially the Dreiss, it would give that DPS you want so badly with Thunder.