The rise of the spawn campers

(Amerika) #21

You have obviously never played a game where this kind of mechanic exists. It breeds a whole new type of player who will never leave spawn or the spawn area simply because it’s safe. They don’t care if it is royally screwing their team.

A lot of people don’t know what spawn camping actually is though. If you’re stuck trying to get out of the first area a lot of people believe that to be spawn camping. Spawn camping is people literally sitting in your spawn all the time and killing you as you spawn in. Spawn camping is not killing players as theyrun out into the first area of a map and a team is playing defense and has you locked down.

(MTLMortis) #22

There’s a big difference between camping on the bridge side of their spawn and camping on the other side where they do spawn.

One of those isn’t spawn camping.

(Dawnlazy) #23

There’s a big difference between camping on the bridge side of their spawn and camping on the other side where they do spawn.

One of those isn’t spawn camping.[/quote]

Well regardless of whether or not they go through the house in front of their spawn if you’re in front of the bridge they have to get through you to get anywhere.

(Amerika) #24

On the offensive side of terminal on the last objective I will constantly go under the bridge or take the route through the back alley to harass newly spawned players and come up behind players who are dug in guarding the turn-in point. Some players believe that is spawn camping which just makes me shake my head.

(XavienX) #25

You have obviously never played a game where this kind of mechanic exists. It breeds a whole new type of player who will never leave spawn or the spawn area simply because it’s safe. They don’t care if it is royally screwing their team.

A lot of people don’t know what spawn camping actually is though. If you’re stuck trying to get out of the first area a lot of people believe that to be spawn camping. Spawn camping is people literally sitting in your spawn all the time and killing you as you spawn in. Spawn camping is not killing players as theyrun out into the first area of a map and a team is playing defense and has you locked down.[/quote]

@Amerika I understand, it’s just an idea and I can see the flaws. But spawn camping is honestly a problem that will hardly exist once better team balancing is implemented.

(LifeupOmega) #26

Better team balancing would happen through matchmaking, all they need to do is fix matchmaking’s glaring issues such as solo/team queues. Public is public and it has far too many random factors to truly balance.

(Sorotia) #27

Please define where spawncamping begins. Is it knowledge of spawn timers, flanking with Fragger and tossing a nade that wipes half the team coming out of spawn? This allows everyone to push up and oh noes you bad bad spawncampers stop oppressing me. Is it going around the hangar on Chapel to take out snipers? Is it throwing an airstrike on Terminal right in front of spawn just as defenders are rushing out?

Spawncamping is only a symptom. Either the camped team team has bad composition, or is outskilled, or people left. None of these is a fault of the other team, with obvious exceptions like stacking etc. If you can’t break out of spawn you will not win, period. Creating any invulnerability areas only pushes the camping border a few meters back.

By the time it’s obvious that one team isn’t getting out of spawn it is too late for anything other than a forced shuffle. That team is clearly less skilled, multiple people down and a revolving door of people immediately leaving. I’m all for a shuffle and press F1 but we all know how that goes.

Yeah let’s blame lack of casual matchmaking on players wanting to play the game to the best of their ability.

I’ve had games where attackers spammed shuffle votes instead of looking at their team composition and realizing that for example 2 shotgun Auras, 3 Phantoms and a Skyhammer aren’t the best choices on phase 1 of Chapel…

It has to be really small, like spawn area +1m radius. Otherwise there’s a risk of creating an invicible Vassili or Kira spot.[/quote]

Well just a few days ago had a match in chapel…had 2 or 3 coming up the right side back, 2 up the right side stairs, and a Vassili sitting on left side stairs leading up to the garage.

I see talk of people wanting a real game…but you sure as hell aren’t getting a real game by shooting fish in a barrel…all it is is weak excuses and just farming for extra xp.

Don’t have the right composition? What is everyone suppose to play Rhinos just so we can have a chance to push out with pure brute force when we’re at a huge disadvantage? When as soon as we respawn we have lead flying at us from every direction?

I don’t know about you but there aren’t a ton of people who have such a twitch reaction speed to not only dodge someone completely prepared for them, much less kill them.

Week or so before that had a Fletcher in underground…would plant bombs right by the elevator spawn in the second half…before could even react would blow up half the team or more from the rafters.

How are you supposed to respond to something like that?

(Runeforce) #28

Lets be honest…spawn-campees don’t want a game…they just want to have something to
incessantly whine about. Get over your scrub mentality!

I still have not seen a spawncamp that was not utterly deserved…well, perhaps with the exception of a comp solo-q matched up against a premade.

(MTLMortis) #29

Not at all, you can airstrike/orbital from the other side of the room, you can run around to the main entrance, you can run under the bridge, hang a right and flank after running through the minigun building, you can jump across the dumpsters and are at the minigun side of the building. There is a fair chance of defending and flanking. It is in no way “spawn camping”.

If people continue to run straight through from their spawn into my minigun repeatedly, well that’s just a very poor tactical decision.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/654588_s.gif

And…well crap now I gotta watch Predator tonight while chewing tobacco to make me a goddamn sexual tyrannosaurus…

(Dawnlazy) #30

Not at all, you can airstrike/orbital from the other side of the room, you can run around to the main entrance, you can run under the bridge, hang a right and flank after running through the minigun building, you can jump across the dumpsters and are at the minigun side of the building. There is a fair chance of defending and flanking. It is in no way “spawn camping”.

If people continue to run straight through from their spawn into my minigun repeatedly, well that’s just a very poor tactical decision.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/654588_s.gif

And…well crap now I gotta watch Predator tonight while chewing tobacco to make me a goddamn sexual tyrannosaurus…
[/quote]

I mean actually going under the bridge into the spawn area and standing in front so whether they want to go into the elevator room or under the bridge they have to fight you. Not exactly IN the spot where they spawn because you don’t want to get lolspawnprotectioned to death.

(Ballto) #31

no. No blue shield of impenetrable magic crap.

we have enough worthless vasilis as is, and if playing planetside has taught me anything if you shield spawn rooms with one way spawn shields you will get 15+snipers in spawn doing nothing useful and then youll lose quartz ridge.

(Zack) #32

Are we supposed to let the enemy team plant the bomb/repair the EV? I’m quite sure the entire point of the game is to deny the enemy from doing just that.

(Nesodos) #33
  1. at ballto
    we already have huge radiation shields, anti bullet shields wouldnt be “magic” to someone living in the dirty bomb time

i dont really want the shields myself, i played lots of planetside 2 myself but the huge imbalance towards VS back in the days made me abandon it

the best option would be to make the invul phases when spawning longer and dont cancel them when attacking

the vasilli problem is not that big as you might think, sometimes there are 2 in one match but normally one of them is good enough

the main noobvassili problems appear in lvl<10 servers where no one even knows how to be good

i’m actually quite good with my fel-ix but squishy mercs are insta dead when the enemy is camping infront of your spawn and you dont have a merc with explosives

  1. at Zack
    well, is it fun for you when 6 or more people sit infront of the room with your computer and kick you in the crotch whenever you try to get in there to play?

it’s cheap and you wouldn’t like it either

like Sorotia already said, spawn campers dont want to play, they want to win without fighting for it

(LifeupOmega) #34

@Nesodos Spawn shields will accomplish nothing though. Players will just sit outside that area and gun you down as you leave. They have never helped.

If you’re getting spawn camped then your team is clearly shit and nothing can change that. The defense objective is stopping you from getting to the objective, tough luck. Maybe try playing as a team.

(Nesodos) #35

again, you folks didnt read my posts

first, i said that you can shoot through the shields, but only from the spawn side
second, i said i dont like the shields either but it was just an example of what could be done about it

try to manage a pub team that is running around like headless chickens because they try to survive against the campers

we couldnt even step out of the small spawn house on chapel attacking side because we were dead the second our invul ended

how would you try to kill them, even when the team is concentrating on one group of them?
either way, you are dead before even one of them is down

again, its not about the counter measures
the big problem is the broken team balance and the Devs couldnt fix it till now

its ok either way: a good team balance from the start of the match or something to counter spawn camping

(SirMurder) #36

Fletcha solves everything :trollface:

(MarsRover) #37

[quote=“Sorotia;139882”]again, you folks didnt read my posts

first, i said that you can shoot through the shields, but only from the spawn side
second, i said i dont like the shields either but it was just an example of what could be done about it

try to manage a pub team that is running around like headless chickens because they try to survive against the campers

we couldnt even step out of the small spawn house on chapel attacking side because we were dead the second our invul ended

how would you try to kill them, even when the team is concentrating on one group of them?
either way, you are dead before even one of them is down

again, its not about the counter measures
the big problem is the broken team balance and the Devs couldnt fix it till now

its ok either way: a good team balance from the start of the match or something to counter spawn camping[/quote]

No match starts with spawn camping. If your team was put into such position and cannot break through then there were reasons for that, including:
a) skill gap - you need to accept that there is no way to ideally balance random 12-16 players, with various squads, with people joining/leaving, etc. There is much to be done here but the result won’t be acceptable every game.
b) bad team composition - quite hard to factor in but doable
c) people leaving - I can’t fathom why there’s no automatic balance system when one team is short 2 or more players

But what counts is the end result - if you can’t break out of spawn you have pretty much zero chance of winning, the other team shoots better and cooperates better. You need to accept that and move on.

(Nesodos) #38

seems that even quote function is broken now, look yourself

wow, please read my second post on this thread, its the 3rd comment

i wrote that the enemy team already stomped the weaker one before i joined,
they even completed their part of stopwatch on chapel in less than 3 minutes (~ 2.20 mins)

they got annihilated from the start and couldnt do anything about it
the number of players was the same on both sides, the leaving started when the camp was in full progress

there were various attempts to shuffle by 2 of my teammates but no one cared, the stronger team even laughed at us because they tried

i know you cant balance teams
there has to be unbalance, otherwise no side would be able to win

the problem is that there is no mechanic in DB that does reliably create enough balance to give the disadvantaged team even a slight chance to win

it could have been balanced by moving 2 of the 20’s to the worse team right from the start, but it didnt

they didnt even operate together, the 4 lvl 20’s killed everything while the rest of their team ran circles, trying to be useful

i dont prefer to have such things like spawnshields but it looks like the Devs cant fix the broken matchmaking and there are still no countermeasures against huge imbalances

i know, its time to move on because commenters already stop reading what i wrote before

i will leave it as it is, spawn camping is cheap and shouldnt even exist in pubs

the Devs really need to fix the broken matchmaking

(MarsRover) #39

[quote=“Nesodos;141158”]wow, please read my second post on this thread, its the 3rd comment

i wrote that the enemy team already stomped the weaker one before i joined,
they even completed their part of stopwatch on chapel in less than 3 minutes (~ 2.20 mins)[/quote]

I read all your comments. So you joined a game in progress where attackers were trapped in spawn. Did the match begin with defenders spawning around attackers spawn? No. Thank you, I rest my case :slight_smile:

There is no matchmaking in pubs. Random people join the server, are shuffled into teams as best as possible, and the match begins. During all that a million things happen that affect balance.

If anything, I’d recommend staying away from Stopwatch, as teams are assigned at the start of the lobby, which is… not a good idea. Also there’s quite a bit more “clans” that aren’t interested in interesting matches.

(Nesodos) #40

i joined in the last 30 seconds of the enemies attacking phase but thats still not what i said three times already
it was already unbalanced when the game was set up, thats why some teammates tried to shuffle from the beginning

actually, lobbies are a part of matchmaking, such as parties, contact lists or the normal server browser

means that every game starts with matchmaking period

read a gaming dictionary, its quite useful