The reason that Brinks shooting/movement isn't like RTCW/W:ET

(V1cK_dB) #1

So in another thread someone mentioned how SD didn’t create RTCW they just contributed some maps. Is this accurate? They then went on to create W:ET. The point is that if true then id software are the ones truly responsible for what made RTCW the greatest FPS of all time.

  • The shooting. Low spread, accurate, skill based.
  • The movement. Fast, smooth, strafing while shooting was critical and so were things like strafejumping.
  • The details. When you shot someone in the head…their helmet flew off! This is how you knew you got a headshot and if you had the upper hand in the fight. I mean C’MON! That is awesome. What happened to details like those? In Brink you cant even tell if you got a headshot or not until you actually get the kill and even then it’s random lmao.

Those are just some examples of what made RTCW/W:ET great. I use those games because SD used those games before Brink was released as a way to sell brink. They said they created W:ET and it’s still being played over 8 years later. 1 Billion matches played! Remember?

Then they release Brink. A game that plays NOTHING like those games. Sure it has classes and objectives. That’s about it. The shooting and movement is nothing like those games. I wondered why they would do that. Why if they already had a perfect formula in a game like W:ET would they change it up so drastically in Brink. My questions was answered in that thread. SD didn’t make RTCW. id software did. SD overestimated their objective class based gameplay. That isn’t good enough and your sales numbers show it especially your current people playing the game numbers and especially the return numbers.

So some people will say that RTCW/W:ET gameplay is oldschool. Games are more advanced today. I say BS! Most kids today have NEVER played anything like RTCW/W:ET. They have only played slow ADS low skill shooters. My theory is that if SD were to release a game closer to RTCW either through a Quakelive type situation or XBOX marketplace situation that it would be played like crazy and expose many younger players to true skill based shooting and movement. Maybe even usher in the comeback of the golden age of shooters. I can dream can’t I?

They had their chance to do this with Brink. Instead they tried to change up the formula. Specifically the shooting and movement. They failed miserably.

(sparky) #2

aye, aye!
Good post.

(its al bout security) #3

because it wasnt W:ET 2 or RTCW 2 sorry if thats what you wanted, i think they did a supurb job, with parkuor and shooting, but meh.

(coolstory) #4

OOO parkour…press 1 magical button and you can climb/jump vault over everything in other words you’ll be come a NINJA! Shooting, just hold down that fire button and spray and you’ll get kills.

So much skill in this.

Why can’t they release SDK, Im sure the pc community can take care of itself.

(BomBaKlaK) #5

i’m totaly agree with this :

  • The shooting. Low spread, accurate, skill based.
  • The movement. Fast, smooth, strafing while shooting was critical and so were things like strafejumping.
  • The details. When you shot someone in the head…their helmet flew off! This is how you knew you got a headshot and if you had the upper hand in the fight. I mean C’MON! That is awesome. What happened to details like those? In Brink you cant even tell if you got a headshot or not until you actually get the kill and even then it’s random lmao.
  • 1 000 000 !
(Thundermuffin) #6

They said it was a spiritual Enemy Territory 3; doesn’t anyone remember that when Richard Ham or whoever hyped up this game so much to the press said something like if they were to make ET3 this would be it?

And this parkour sucks compared to Q3/W:ET; I would take strafejumping over this crappy SMART system any day of the week.

Strafejumping/circlestrafing/whatever else people do in DeFRaG/Q3/W:ET > S.M.A.R.T. by a mile; look at how they’re going so fast with nothing but jumping, turning their mouse and using some weapons. You can maybe get a close to a fourth of that speed if you get lucky and stuck in a corridor and walljump.

(legend123) #7

hear hear!

(Seiniyta) #8

The idea of SMART is sound, I just think you should have more control over your characters whilst in air, and able to jump more then one time against a wall surface when timed well.

(Humate) #9

The shooting and movement is nothing like those games. I wondered why they would do that.

The idea for Brink was - skilled based actions mitigate the need for relying on team-mates.
If you could smash everyone like you could in ET and ETQW, you wouldn’t require anyones assistance.

Hence the ridiculous spread and recoil values… and the retarded ammo count.

(Zanchile) #10

you can walljump into another walljump if thats what you mean.

(-XVX-) #11

I think the reason is obvious. The console kiddie controller is imprecise. It’s like trying to write a letter while only holding your pencil with your thumb. They had to slow the games down for console players, because they only have one turn speed, unlike the mouse where we can turn fast or slow. Could you imagine a console player trying to play Quake 3? They would constantly be bumping into walls, because they simply cannot turn fast enough. This isn’t a mistake by SD, but a conscious marketing decision to pander to the console kiddie controller.

How many people remember when aim assist was considered a hack? Now thats standard in console games, because the controller is imprecise.

(V1cK_dB) #12

[QUOTE=>< V ><;345098]I think the reason is obvious. The console kiddie controller is imprecise. It’s like trying to write a letter while only holding your pencil with your thumb. They had to slow the games down for console players, because they only have one turn speed, unlike the mouse where we can turn fast or slow. Could you imagine a console player trying to play Quake 3? They would constantly be bumping into walls, because they simply cannot turn fast enough. This isn’t a mistake by SD, but a conscious marketing decision to pander to the console kiddie controller.

How many people remember when aim assist was considered a hack? Now thats standard in console games, because the controller is imprecise.[/QUOTE]

I agree and I disagree. I don’t think the controller is the problem. It’s just what’s popular now. COD and Halo changed everything. Not the controller. Then every single dev since has tried to make their games similar. Speed burst buttons, ADS, etc. Nothing but garbage. Its like after those games developers forgot the golden age as if a fun game wasn’t what people wanted anymore. Its all about “realism”, OHK, ADS, etc. I say “realism” because COD is anything but realism.

I used to play RTCW Tides of War on XBOX 1!!! It played beautifully. I was able to move fast and aim accurately with that controller. If someone was shooting me from behind I would just use the “quickturn” button and 2 shot them lol. I also played RTCW and W:ET on PC. The game played very well on XBOX 1 with a controller which is why I don’t think the controller is the problem. It’s the devs.

(DrpPlates) #13

GrayMatter created the SP for RTCW and Nerve Created the MP… and of course ID was involved. and then the community- man, that game has some maps…

anyone remember GoldRush? ‘escort the cow’ moooo… so much gold could barely move… lol
good times… anyways–

SD just did some maps for the Game of the Year addition…

as for the rest of your post - Amen brother!

just played about 30 minutes of brink, been a couple weeks- but, new patch and all- see whats new… umm yeah, nothing… game is still retarded. and where is the end match chat?? or is the patch not out yet on Steam, cause am not seeing any chat… regardless. game is all but dead, only 3 active servers… with more then 5 people on them…

o well, back to ETQW!

(SockDog) #14

[QUOTE=>< V ><;345098]I think the reason is obvious. The console kiddie controller is imprecise. It’s like trying to write a letter while only holding your pencil with your thumb. They had to slow the games down for console players, because they only have one turn speed, unlike the mouse where we can turn fast or slow. Could you imagine a console player trying to play Quake 3? They would constantly be bumping into walls, because they simply cannot turn fast enough. This isn’t a mistake by SD, but a conscious marketing decision to pander to the console kiddie controller.

How many people remember when aim assist was considered a hack? Now thats standard in console games, because the controller is imprecise.[/QUOTE]

This pretty much sums it up. Same **** that gave us regenerative health. :frowning:

I just advise you do as I do if this pisses you off. Spend more money supporting indie developers or developers who don’t feel the need to compromise their own game to secure funding.

(DrpPlates) #15

[QUOTE=V1cK_dB;345100]I agree and I disagree. I don’t think the controller is the problem. It’s just what’s popular now. COD and Halo changed everything. Not the controller. Then every single dev since has tried to make their games similar. Speed burst buttons, ADS, etc. Nothing but garbage. Its like after those games developers forgot the golden age as if a fun game wasn’t what people wanted anymore. Its all about “realism”, OHK, ADS, etc. I say “realism” because COD is anything but realism.

I used to play RTCW Tides of War on XBOX 1!!! It played beautifully. I was able to move fast and aim accurately with that controller. If someone was shooting me from behind I would just use the “quickturn” button and 2 shot them lol. I also played RTCW and W:ET on PC. The game played very well on XBOX 1 with a controller which is why I don’t think the controller is the problem. It’s the devs.[/QUOTE]

i feel, consoles are the problem, due to the limitations it places on the devs…

load up ETQW - options or settings or controls etc-- and choose anyone of the 3- 4 tabs inside those settings for even MORE options and controls… all you have to do is load up brink and go to options and see those limitations-

and the controller can only do so much- while my 6 button mouse combined with my keyboard and its 12x3 Gkeys or macros, as far as a FPS game is concerned, is limitless… with Brink am just using one button on my mouse! and only a few keys on the keyboard i.e. WASD 1234 etc… WTf is that about… o yeah-- console Port… thats right… :mad:

(noupperlobeman) #16

You got it!

We should model all games after the ones that have come before! Screw trying to come up with anything new or innovative! Who needs new content anyway right? I’d much rather play the similar content rehashed with a different title year after year.

They tried something new, instead of pumping out franchised sequels that they know will sell well. I give them props for that.

  • The shooting. Low spread, accurate, skill based.
  • The movement. Fast, smooth, strafing while shooting was critical and so were things like strafejumping.
  • The details. When you shot someone in the head…their helmet flew off! This is how you knew you got a headshot and if you had the upper hand in the fight. I mean C’MON! That is awesome. What happened to details like those? In Brink you cant even tell if you got a headshot or not until you actually get the kill and even then it’s random lmao.

And this is all ridiculous. Fast, smooth, strafing while shooting was an innovation in your eyes? Low spread and accurate shooting is skill based?

You know what people who have been gaming a while call games like these?

Arcade shooters.

There is nothing flawless and epic about them. They are simple, they are not skill based, and they are a helluva lot more casual than you make them out to be. There is nothing epic about the kind of game you speak of.

(V1cK_dB) #17

[QUOTE=DrpPlates;345111]i feel, consoles are the problem, due to the limitations it places on the devs…

load up ETQW - options or settings or controls etc-- and choose anyone of the 3- 4 tabs inside those settings for even MORE options and controls… all you have to do is load up brink and go to options and see those limitations-

and the controller can only do so much- while my 6 button mouse combined with my keyboard and its 12x3 Gkeys or macros, as far as a FPS game is concerned, is limitless… with Brink am just using one button on my mouse! and only a few keys on the keyboard i.e. WASD 1234 etc… WTf is that about… o yeah-- console Port… thats right… :mad:[/QUOTE]

Yeah no doubt. PC is more customizable. There is no excuse for limiting it so much though. I mean even in Halo you can customize things like speed, gravity and many other things. Its not the console or controller…its the dev. The PC will be more customizable but just because its on console doesn’t mean it should be the polar opposite. RTCW tides of war wasn’t as customizable on xbox as it was on PC but it had the same core gameplay and it played great. They didn’t slow it down just because it was on XBOX 1.

(V1cK_dB) #18

[QUOTE=noupperlobeman;345118]You got it!

We should model all games after the ones that have come before! Screw trying to come up with anything new or innovative! Who needs new content anyway right? I’d much rather play the similar content rehashed with a different title year after year.

They tried something new, instead of pumping out franchised sequels that they know will sell well. I give them props for that.

And this is all ridiculous. Fast, smooth, strafing while shooting was an innovation in your eyes? Low spread and accurate shooting is skill based?

You know what people who have been gaming a while call games like these?

Arcade shooters.

There is nothing flawless and epic about them. They are simple, they are not skill based, and they are a helluva lot more casual than you make them out to be. There is nothing epic about the kind of game you speak of.[/QUOTE]

Lol. Sure. Just because thats how shooters were in the past doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t make games like that anymore. People still play Mario type platformers, racers and many other games that play almost exactly as they used to play. For some reason ALL FPS have to be like COD? Why? There is no room for a skill based arcade shooter? Why? explain yourself.

As far as those games being casual…you are out of your mind. A skilled RTCW player could take on an entire team of noobs consistently. That just can’t happen in this ADS, OHK dominated world today. Why? BECAUSE IT IS TOO EASY TO KILL PEOPLE! They made it easier for YOU. So that you could get kills more consistently and not have to get destroyed over and over by skillful players. They made the skill gap smaller. You don’t have to practice as much anymore to get kills like you used to.

You of course don’t get that because you are probably terrible (an assumption) at those types of games because they were too difficult for you. So you like games like COD, BF, Halo, etc.

Calling games like W:ET, Quake, etc casual is just foolish. I can hear everyone laughing right now as I type this.

Also…before you try and say something…I’m an absolute beast at COD/Halo/Gears/whatever. It just isn’t as satisfying going 40-5 in COD because it’s too easy. RTCW was much more skillful. Not even close.

One more thing…what is wrong with simple? Why does there have to be helicopters, vehicles, 3000 different weapons and 4000 different pieces of underwear for you to be happy? I also never said that low spread accurate shooting was innovative. I couldn’t care less. I just want a fast moving skill based shooter like RTCW/W:ET. You want slow ADS/terrible spread/horrific movement with nuclear weapon killstreak reward games…which is fine. There are like 20 games for you to play. I just want ONE!!!

(noupperlobeman) #19

[QUOTE=V1cK_dB;345122]Lol. Sure. Just because thats how shooters were in the past doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t make games like that anymore. People still play Mario type platformers, racers and many other games that play almost exactly as they used to play. For some reason ALL FPS have to be like COD? Why? There is no room for a skill based arcade shooter? Why? explain yourself.

As far as those games being casual…you are out of your mind. A skilled RTCW player could take on an entire team of noobs consistently. That just can’t happen in this ADS, OHK dominated world today. Why? BECAUSE IT IS TOO EASY TO KILL PEOPLE! They made it easier for YOU. So that you could get kills more consistently and not have to get destroyed over and over by skillful players. They made the skill gap smaller. You don’t have to practice as much anymore to get kills like you used to.

You of course don’t get that because you are probably terrible (an assumption) at those types of games because they were too difficult for you. So you like games like COD, BF, Halo, etc.

Calling games like W:ET, Quake, etc casual is just foolish. I can hear everyone laughing right now as I type this.

Also…before you try and say something…I’m an absolute beast at COD/Halo/Gears/whatever. It just isn’t as satisfying going 40-5 in COD because it’s too easy. RTCW was much more skillful. Not even close.

One more thing…what is wrong with simple? Why does there have to be helicopters, vehicles, 3000 different weapons and 4000 different pieces of underwear for you to be happy? I also never said that low spread accurate shooting was innovative. I couldn’t care less. I just want a fast moving skill based shooter like RTCW/W:ET. You want slow ADS/terrible spread/horrific movement with nuclear weapon killstreak reward games…which is fine. There are like 20 games for you to play. I just want ONE!!![/QUOTE]

You assume a lot. I grew up playing RTCW in highschool. I hate all call of duties (except the original pc version), halo, and gears of war. Just because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t give you the right to go all ad hominem and start assuming things about their personality.

And don’t kid yourself about games being casual. All games are casual. “Professional” gamers are only lying to themselves.

My only problem with your op was you bashing (it seemed like) Brink for not being more of the same. And that saying a simpler game = more skillful players. Nothing is wrong with simple games, but your assumption that players who play simple games are better is way off base.

I find it just a tad silly that you think it takes more skill to point a crosshair at an enemy and blaze away for a kill is more skillful than taking one well aimed shot to the head or body. To each his own I guess.

(V1cK_dB) #20

This was posted by “Fishbus” an SD level designer in another thread. This is what makes me think that SD doesn’t even really know what made W:ET the game that it was. The reason it was so popular. The reason they were able to throw that name around when hyping up Brink. This is a response to someone complaining about weapon spread and headshots being random. It’s like these guys didn’t really know what made RTCW great. They think it was just objective gameplay and classes. Totally missing that the gunplay and movement was what really made it amazing.

"It was always random, what the change is that the cone pattern is a little less central. The gun is as accuracte as it has always been (lying within the crosshair), it’s just not as likely to hit the central dot 9 times outta 10. SMGs have always been awesome close, mid range bullet dispensers and they still are. They’re still great when moving and jumping around. These changes only stop SMGs from being able to mow people down from 1km away, which was kinda the issue (since rifles were being outclassed).

That carb-9 weakness has always been the recoil, we just enhanced a little to bring it in line. the other changes are very negligible, even smaller than “slightly”.

I hope you guys can understand why the changes were brought in."

Kinda makes me lose hope that SD can make another gem like RTCW.

On a side note id is probably the only company that can do it. If you pay attention to the RAGE gameplay videos you will notice the movement is very similar to RTCW and the shooting seems similar too. id Tech 5 engine is what they use for that game. Unfortunately id is having some screw ups of their own and will not be releasing the MP as a shooter…but as a twisted metal ripoff. So sad.