The Phantom Update v47388 - 07/07/2015

(Protekt1) #61

[QUOTE=Szakalot;533851]Imo best way to balance phantom:

  • make every cloak-in cost full cooldown. Atm. cloaking in is preferable before any single engagement, typically you are in an advantageous position to decloak before even half the timer is up. Once the engagement is done you are ready to cloak in again, so you never ran out of he ability. This would also force better timing for Phantom, rather than always run through danger zones cloaked in, and decloaking when safe

Other possibilities include making the armor shine-up when hit, so its easier to score consecutive hits[/QUOTE]

I think full cooldown cost is a bit too much. Maybe just a bit more than it is now would be appropriate, but full cooldown isn’t even experienced with anything else when you cancel/retrieve early.

edit:
Yeah, I think the cooldown thing is the main culprit with the shield itself, at least from my experience. I still think full cooldown is way too much though.

(Volcano) #62

MM needs to have the higher ranked side play attackers first

(Szakalot) #63

[QUOTE=Protekt1;533902]I think full cooldown cost is a bit too much. Maybe just a bit more than it is now would be appropriate, but full cooldown isn’t even experienced with anything else when you cancel/retrieve early.

edit:
Yeah, I think the cooldown thing is the main culprit with the shield itself, at least from my experience. I still think full cooldown is way too much though.[/QUOTE]

sure, doesn’t have to be full length;

the problem for me is not the cooldown length itself (6 or 8 or 10 sec);

the problem is that phantom can always peek with armor on. In a simple 1on1 you can peek - line up head - win a fight. Or if its not going your way, hide again, and peek again with armor on. Atm. using the armor premptively in any situation is always possible.

I’d like careless activation of armor to be more punishing, and a cooldown bash is the easiest way to approach it. If activation costed 50% of cooldown, and the duration would run thru the remaining 50%, you would no longer be able to spam armor at every new engagement.

Imagine Starcraft cloak ability without the 25 initial energy cost.

(Loki.) #64

Can’t say i blame them…
Way Over-Powered for a FPS MP game.

I know he’s nothing more then a ‘covert-op’ type character (like in ETQW), but at least in that game, you needed far more skill to play him effectively…
unlike the phantom…

Servers cleared when 4-5 phantoms just dominated a match…

Being a FTP game, not a good idea to have such a character imo…

He definitely needs tweaking…

(BioSnark) #65

I played several public games as him and it feels like cheating. Having a shield that regenerates extremely quickly and can be activated even under fire is silly. Aim punch means enemies can’t even fight back, even if I didn’t have them waste their magazine on the shield. This is like how aura was (and, to a much lesser extent, is) with stupid RPG mechanics breaking a skill-based firefight.

The stealth element is, of course, countered via config. I wish he teleported to be a flanker rather than have a rhino shield.

(MoonOnAStick) #66

Without getting into whether Phantom is OP or not, I’ve had some of my most miserable public games after the release of this patch. One thing Phantom appears to be great at is pouring it on when a team are backed up at an objective, racking up the kills while they struggle to find some forward momentum (obviously you can achieve similar results with a cheeky turret or a well timed grenade, but one-hit invisible melee really feels horrible to deal or receive.) Maybe things will improve when there is more team awareness.

FWIW, tweak suggestions:
Make Phantom more visible when running (at one point NS2 had a nice solution where aliens were completely invisible whilst stationary, but reasonably easy to spot once moving.)
Make friendly Phantoms much more visible. Fearing a one-hit-kill, my gaze is instantly drawn to all distortions.
Additional shield depletion when jumping.
Have turrets react to Phantom, but more slowly.

(BomBaKlaK) #67

/PhatomUpdateRageQuitDueToATotallyBrokenMerc !

Ok so now I play 100% phantom cause it’s super boring to play against …
Seriously … screw this update … the game is now absolutely broken … Not any fun game since this release.

(Protekt1) #68

[QUOTE=MoonOnAStick;533976]Without getting into whether Phantom is OP or not, I’ve had some of my most miserable public games after the release of this patch. One thing Phantom appears to be great at is pouring it on when a team are backed up at an objective, racking up the kills while they struggle to find some forward momentum (obviously you can achieve similar results with a cheeky turret or a well timed grenade, but one-hit invisible melee really feels horrible to deal or receive.) Maybe things will improve when there is more team awareness.

FWIW, tweak suggestions:
Make Phantom more visible when running (at one point NS2 had a nice solution where aliens were completely invisible whilst stationary, but reasonably easy to spot once moving.)
Make friendly Phantoms much more visible. Fearing a one-hit-kill, my gaze is instantly drawn to all distortions.
Additional shield depletion when jumping.
Have turrets react to Phantom, but more slowly.[/QUOTE]

They already are so easy to spot.

(BomBaKlaK) #69

I really think the big problem is the combo “active armor / one shot melee kill”, not really the invisible thing.

(Szakalot) #70

exactly!

I think Phantom playstyle is GREAT. Interesting style that adds a 1on1 assasin who doesnt do very well against multiple enemies. Its just that he is little too good at everything he does. Nerf of choice:

if there was a cooldown penalty on armor activation, people could play around phantom, you can always move away faster than he can come. Say 25-50% of cooldown bar is drained whenever armor is activated. I call it armor cause thats what it is. Cooldown nerf is whats needed to, as the present short cooldown basically gives him more HP.

Atm. its way too easy to spam armor for every corner and every push, every retreat.

The phantom-y aspect is pretty much only useful when not moving at all, otherwise he is easily spotted.

Phantom vs Phantom will also become interesting, as whoever loses armor first is likely to die due to melee 100+hp strike

It also adds more ‘flavour’, Phantom as a samurai wannabe who wants think its medieval ages with his armor ++++HP

(Nail) #71

patch notes for July 9 patch ?

(BomBaKlaK) #72

Nuclear Katana launcher buff for phantom with an Hiroshima ninja skin

(BomBaKlaK) #73

Remove the armor thing is the best way to balance imo.
Make him more vulnerable is the solution.

(Loki.) #74

[QUOTE=BomBaKlaK;534000]Remove the armor thing is the best way to balance imo.
Make him more vulnerable is the solution.[/QUOTE]

agreed…!

why you would give a cloaked 2MeleeHit character Armor… is beyond me… :confused:

(Szakalot) #75

[QUOTE=Loki.;534072]agreed…!

why you would give a cloaked 2MeleeHit character Armor… is beyond me… :confused:[/QUOTE]

and id rather cloak was less effective, and armor stayed. The armor element is more interesting than cloaking cause cloaking is either invisible or easy to spot.

(Loki.) #76

I dont have a real problem with the cloak, lets face it… he just a ‘covert-op’ type character…
but unlike the covy in ETQW, you had one real shot at killing someone with your knife… you missed, you’re (most the time) no only out of disguise (or un-cloaked (see what i did there) :slight_smile: ) but Dead!
but this guy, dont matter - with the armor, guy is the friggin Predator and we aint ARNY ! :wink:

(BioSnark) #77

Been playing mostly phantom with no melee. It’s quite cheap. Here’s another nerf suggestion.

Make the rhino shield+stealth require that the tool be equipped while it is active.
Currently, it completely cheeses up firefights. I get to line up my headshots, no matter how carelessly I enter an engagement or how slowly I react in comparison to my opponent. If phantom actually had to switch to the kek, this level of RPG magic nonsense would intrude far less into what should be skill-based firefights. That won’t fix the stupid katana but it will make phantom more vulnerable before dealing 1hit kill levels of damage with such a no-skill weapon.

(Raga) #78

fix the balance please of phantom find a solution for make it less strong

(kristus) #79

There were a lot more nuances to the cloak in ETQW than it is to Phantom’s. For instance you actually had to have an enemy corpse to use for your cloak, and then it wasn’t unusual for opponents spotting you and seeing through your disguise because they could put two and two together. On top of that, you had to be pretty skilled to put out a backstab on someone who you were actively engaged in a fight with, or just moving around for that matter.

Yes phantom is fairly easy to spot when he charges. But it is still a lot more difficult to make good shoots when all you get is a blur rampaging towards you, who is also a ****ing tank. Also, I mostly play as Aura and even if I manage to get two good shots in. That’s not enough to save my ass from a one shot kill. Sometimes I’ll manage to duck and weave out and manage to take down the opponent. But it’s more a matter of the phantom failing, rather than my own sick skills in that case.