The phantom identity crisis


(blisteringOwlNest) #1

Phantom is a good character, except there’s never a reason to use the katana and invisibility is normally useless. So… What’s the point? There is none.

Short katana range and being as slow as a literal snail makes it pointless unless you want to be killed using it. That weapon is his calling card. Sparks can rely on her gun to be awesome and scratching op, but phantom can’t be the king of Melee? Why not?

Invisibility is alright, but once you get where you are, your limited. One shot the aura/ proxy/ sparks? Take out the med station? The sniper? You better pick caus you can’t do all three, chances are you can’t do one if you use katana.

So phantom is a budget assault that always comes last as he earns no exp, can literally do one thing before he dies and will always come last unless your not playing him like a phantom (that is to say, an invisible scout with explosive power but poor sustained combat abilities)

I like phantom, but f*** me if playing him is as frustrating as all balls.


(Xan) #2

fun to play


(blisteringOwlNest) #3

@Xan I agree, but that’s all he has going for him.


(Xan) #4

@blisteringOwlNest he’s kinda useful in some situation
e.g i used him to sneak plant and push back the enemy while getting spawncamped


(blisteringOwlNest) #5

Like i said, my main problem with him is he’s not really an “assassin” as he is now, as playing him that way just doesn’t end well. It’s hard to take down VIPs when you can’t do it in one shot, as if you try its very risky (2 second animation!!)


(Ballto) #6

of course theres times to use the katana

-Opener in sneak attacks in cqc
-Finisher in cqc
-Vasilis
-Turret hogs
-Medics
-Campers
-proxies planting/disarming
-Fun


(Ballto) #7

ok the two second animations a bit dumb i cant argue that, but assassins throguhout history have used guns and bows too.

i mean, Lincoln was killed by a gun


(Mr-Penguin) #8

[quote=“Ballto;126341”]of course theres times to use the katana

-Opener in sneak attacks in cqc
-Finisher in cqc
-Vasilis
-Turret hogs
-Medics
-Campers
-proxies planting/disarming
-Fun[/quote]

A gun can do all of those- but better.


(blisteringOwlNest) #9

@derpypenguinz19 sums up my point exactly. The katana should be a high risk high reward weapon, but the reward is just not enough right now, for me personally at least. And don’t get me wrong, having some of the best smgs in the game shows phantoms supposed to be a gunner too.

But the katana is why people buy him. Nothing is cooler then bringing a knife to a gun fight and winning. Just make it a little bit more rewarding for that extra effort put in to get within range. I’d like to see heavy attack be reduced to 1.5 secs, and dmg up to 110. Then it’s good for snipers and pheonix too, leaving sawbonez (I think?) still good.


(Ballto) #10

[quote=“derpypenguinz19;126352”][quote=“Ballto;126341”]of course theres times to use the katana

-Opener in sneak attacks in cqc
-Finisher in cqc
-Vasilis
-Turret hogs
-Medics
-Campers
-proxies planting/disarming
-Fun[/quote]

A gun can do all of those- but better.[/quote]

it saves ammo in pub servers when nobody knows how to press E when they play skyhammer


(Ballto) #11

[quote=“blisteringOwlNest;126364”]@derpypenguinz19 sums up my point exactly. The katana should be a high risk high reward weapon, but the reward is just not enough right now, for me personally at least. And don’t get me wrong, having some of the best smgs in the game shows phantoms supposed to be a gunner too.

But the katana is why people buy him. Nothing is cooler then bringing a knife to a gun fight and winning. Just make it a little bit more rewarding for that extra effort put in to get within range. I’d like to see heavy attack be reduced to 1.5 secs, and dmg up to 110. Then it’s good for snipers and pheonix too, leaving sawbonez (I think?) still good.[/quote]

i, and many other phantoms ive seen can bring a knife to a gun fight and win just fine, its not easy and you cant do it every kill but its more than possible

also, phoenix can be one shot by a katana with chop

Aura proxy kira vasili phoenix sparks can all be one shot from max hp


(blisteringOwlNest) #12

@Balto and how many times have you died straight after?

Killing any merc that’s not squishy takes at least 3 swipes or 1 lunge, 1 swipe. That’s three seconds for them to damage you, others to happen upon you and shoot you. It sucks that phantom ends up being a suicide runner unless you finish with or start with a gun.

Maybe I’m just salty from not being able to use the katana as much as I’d like, which if I’m being practical is only to gib or take out planters/ repairers. Giving the katana a buff would just make it so much more satisfying.


(Ballto) #13

[quote=“blisteringOwlNest;126368”]@Balto and how many times have you died straight after?

Killing any merc that’s not squishy takes at least 3 swipes or 1 lunge, 1 swipe. That’s three seconds for them to damage you, others to happen upon you and shoot you. It sucks that phantom ends up being a suicide runner unless you finish with or start with a gun.

Maybe I’m just salty from not being able to use the katana as much as I’d like, which if I’m being practical is only to gib or take out planters/ repairers. Giving the katana a buff would just make it so much more satisfying.[/quote]

Actually not often at all, i learned the art of the quick swipe+smg/revolver combo in another game, and when i applied that here it works great.

Whenever your able to melee, unless you KNOW you can OHK someone, DO NOT LUNGE. Just quickswipe, hit 1, KEK them to death.

It will take some practice, but after a bit youll be able to 1v2 people with moderate ease and pretty much mine salt.


Teams were balanced on both, no one on either side was below 5.5k EXP and around the same level, i was just ghosting around.


(SonataDusk) #14

After over 100 hours with Phantom, I can say he is not where he needs to be. He’s a slayer, and as such, he needs to be really good at killing. Not good in some circumstances, no good when the other team is new, plain old good. As it stands now, his ability to kill is outclassed by Nader, Fragger, even Fletcher.
People were upset before when he could kill anyone he got close to, but that was kinda the point. If you let Phantom get close to you, you deserved to die. Listening and looking out for cloak wasn’t too tall an order, and backpedaling foiled a Phantom who couldn’t long jump.
To start, they should remove the turn speed limit. That would make it actually possible to track a moving target with a stab. To prevent beyblading, which was an issue since people made macros for it, it could be replaced with a total turn limit of say 50 degree in either direction. That way it is possible to correct your attack for movement, but the sword tornado is still not possible.


(Jostabeere) #15

I don’t get why SD doesn’t want him to be a sneaky melee. It works in other games. Let’s face it. Phantom was designed as a blatant Spy clone. So why doesn’t he act as the Spy?


(LifeupOmega) #16

Absolutely useless in 5v5, don’t know why they’re so reluctant to actually do something about him. Just ask the top players if they really don’t have a clue.


(Amerika) #17

[quote=“blisteringOwlNest;126364”]@derpypenguinz19 sums up my point exactly. The katana should be a high risk high reward weapon, but the reward is just not enough right now, for me personally at least. And don’t get me wrong, having some of the best smgs in the game shows phantoms supposed to be a gunner too.

But the katana is why people buy him. Nothing is cooler then bringing a knife to a gun fight and winning. Just make it a little bit more rewarding for that extra effort put in to get within range. I’d like to see heavy attack be reduced to 1.5 secs, and dmg up to 110. Then it’s good for snipers and pheonix too, leaving sawbonez (I think?) still good.[/quote]

Phantom’s refractive armor without intelligent use yields poor results. You aren’t supposed to chase somebody across the map trying to melee them. You use his abilities wisely which includes knowing when to melee and when to shoot. Setting up kills for yourself while also leaving escape routes is how Phantom is played successfully. Running into a group of people to get a melee kill and immediately dying yourself is not intelligent play yet that seems to be the dominant strategy for many Phantom players.

He’s not a melee only or melee focused merc and has no special abilities that are melee. Also, the melee system in this game isn’t exactly deep or unique from merc to merc. He has access to a Katana instead of a Cricket Bat on his loadouts. The Katana is going to be given to other mercs in the future as well.

Learn to play Phantom properly as opposed to chasing people around the map and you’ll find him to be much better than you thought and a lot more satisfying overall.


(SonataDusk) #18

[quote=“Amerika;126633”][quote=“blisteringOwlNest;126364”]@derpypenguinz19 sums up my point exactly. The katana should be a high risk high reward weapon, but the reward is just not enough right now, for me personally at least. And don’t get me wrong, having some of the best smgs in the game shows phantoms supposed to be a gunner too.

But the katana is why people buy him. Nothing is cooler then bringing a knife to a gun fight and winning. Just make it a little bit more rewarding for that extra effort put in to get within range. I’d like to see heavy attack be reduced to 1.5 secs, and dmg up to 110. Then it’s good for snipers and pheonix too, leaving sawbonez (I think?) still good.[/quote]

Phantom’s refractive armor without intelligent use yields poor results. You aren’t supposed to chase somebody across the map trying to melee them. You use his abilities wisely which includes knowing when to melee and when to shoot. Setting up kills for yourself while also leaving escape routes is how Phantom is played successfully. Running into a group of people to get a melee kill and immediately dying yourself is not intelligent play yet that seems to be the dominant strategy for many Phantom players.

He’s not a melee only or melee focused merc and has no special abilities that are melee. Also, the melee system in this game isn’t exactly deep or unique from merc to merc. He has access to a Katana instead of a Cricket Bat on his loadouts. The Katana is going to be given to other mercs in the future as well.

Learn to play Phantom properly as opposed to chasing people around the map and you’ll find him to be much better than you thought and a lot more satisfying overall.[/quote]

What you are saying about his tactics is correct. Finding and killing stragglers is where Phantom excels. Groups bigger than 2 his killing ability diminishes dramatically.
However, melee is how he gets those kills. Each of the slayer mercs has an ability that has a dramatically lower time to kill than their primary weapon, or aids them is killing much easier, for example Fragger’s grenades. For Phantom, it’s the katana. A combination of two attacks will kill any merc in the game save for Rhino, and if you have the C94 you can kill Rhino with two stabs. SMGs, even with the element of surprise, are not enough to make Phantom something to be afraid of.
The issue with his balance is that, while the katana was always a high risk-high reward weapon, as it stands now the risk greatly exceeds the likely hood of any reward. It is true that a stab will instakill any merc with 90 health or less (100 or less with chopper), but the combination of the extremely short damage window, the punishing turn speed limit, and the speed of the target mercs makes this an extremely situational tactic. The only way to land a stab is to wait until the target is standing still or running straight at you, and any strategy that relies on your opponent making a mistake is neither fun nor rewarding.
The devs did say that other mercs could get the Katana in the future, but they will most likely not use it like Phantom can with his cloak.


(Amerika) #19

[quote=“SonataDusk;126666”][quote=“Amerika;126633”][quote=“blisteringOwlNest;126364”]@derpypenguinz19 sums up my point exactly. The katana should be a high risk high reward weapon, but the reward is just not enough right now, for me personally at least. And don’t get me wrong, having some of the best smgs in the game shows phantoms supposed to be a gunner too.

But the katana is why people buy him. Nothing is cooler then bringing a knife to a gun fight and winning. Just make it a little bit more rewarding for that extra effort put in to get within range. I’d like to see heavy attack be reduced to 1.5 secs, and dmg up to 110. Then it’s good for snipers and pheonix too, leaving sawbonez (I think?) still good.[/quote]

Phantom’s refractive armor without intelligent use yields poor results. You aren’t supposed to chase somebody across the map trying to melee them. You use his abilities wisely which includes knowing when to melee and when to shoot. Setting up kills for yourself while also leaving escape routes is how Phantom is played successfully. Running into a group of people to get a melee kill and immediately dying yourself is not intelligent play yet that seems to be the dominant strategy for many Phantom players.

He’s not a melee only or melee focused merc and has no special abilities that are melee. Also, the melee system in this game isn’t exactly deep or unique from merc to merc. He has access to a Katana instead of a Cricket Bat on his loadouts. The Katana is going to be given to other mercs in the future as well.

Learn to play Phantom properly as opposed to chasing people around the map and you’ll find him to be much better than you thought and a lot more satisfying overall.[/quote]

What you are saying about his tactics is correct. Finding and killing stragglers is where Phantom excels. Groups bigger than 2 his killing ability diminishes dramatically.
However, melee is how he gets those kills. Each of the slayer mercs has an ability that has a dramatically lower time to kill than their primary weapon, or aids them is killing much easier, for example Fragger’s grenades. For Phantom, it’s the katana. A combination of two attacks will kill any merc in the game save for Rhino, and if you have the C94 you can kill Rhino with two stabs. SMGs, even with the element of surprise, are not enough to make Phantom something to be afraid of.
The issue with his balance is that, while the katana was always a high risk-high reward weapon, as it stands now the risk greatly exceeds the likely hood of any reward. It is true that a stab will instakill any merc with 90 health or less (100 or less with chopper), but the combination of the extremely short damage window, the punishing turn speed limit, and the speed of the target mercs makes this an extremely situational tactic. The only way to land a stab is to wait until the target is standing still or running straight at you, and any strategy that relies on your opponent making a mistake is neither fun nor rewarding.
The devs did say that other mercs could get the Katana in the future, but they will most likely not use it like Phantom can with his cloak. [/quote]

He doesn’t do anything special with the Katana. They are just normal melee swings. It’s just a swap for the cricket bat much like the Kukri is a swap for that on Redeye. He is not a melee-centric merc. He’s also not an assault merc…he’s recon. But instead of you sometimes easily seeing them like on the snipers you are the one who is hard to see/nearly invisible.

Rushing in to try and melee when you could have lasered down somebody’s head with a gun from range and leave yourself an escape route is just not a good play. It’s flat out the wrong thing to do if you want to succeed with the class. If you find yourself in a CQC situation there are times when the Katana comes in handy as it can save time and ammo. But it’s not a primary weapon or even smart to use in most situations. Everything from the sounds Phantom makes coming out of his ability to the hum of refractive armor while running and simply being way out of position makes using melee the wrong way to use him.

People who try to melee with him find him extremely weak…and for good reason. It’s because he’s not meant to be a melee merc. If you use his whole kit and only use his melee when it makes sense, like you do with any other merc, he’s much better. That Katana is a good melee weapon. But it’s not a primary weapon or even an ability. Learning to use him properly is hard and requires a few different skillsets which is why I consider him one of the hardest mercs to learn.


(SonataDusk) #20

Cloak coupled with the katana is what makes him above average at melee, or at least used to be. The cloak isn’t invisible point blank, we all know that much. But sitting dead still or at a distance, it actually is invisibility. Tactics like baiting a merc to chase you while you sit in a corner and watch them run past is exactly the sort of thing you can only do with cloak, before chopping them down before they have a chance to react.
Doing a banzai charge with phantom is not an effective strategy, as it should be. He should be able to flank and use the one tool that actually makes him something the other team has to work around, rather than just swat away every now and again like a snarky mosquito. As it stands now though, he can’t. Making him rely on his gun (which is a close range SMG anyway) rather than the sword is exactly why he is underpowered.