The Heavy NEEDS a buff/ SMGs are too good

(trollface) #41

[QUOTE=tokamak;312320]I think the problem with SMG is not that they’re too good for their niche, it’s just that their niche happens to be a big part of the game, the majority of fire-fights happen up close, which is where the SMG excels.[/QUOTE]I think the issue is that most players with a good aim and good reflexes use the light class+smg, it just feels much more twitch than any other combination. So they whoop some ass and we have a lot of people crying on the forums.

(tokamak) #42

Yeah, that could be true, after all, only the real pros played the Shaman class in WoW, their perceived imbalance had nothing to do with the class being overpowered.

(BeyondSpectrality) #43

If you lower the damage on the SMG it just makes the Light class crap. You want the AR to be the end all weapon, that’s not what it is for. If you like rolling in close quarters use an SMG or get an SMG as your secondary. Or learn to melee.

(burawura) #44

SMGs are the easiest weapons to learn to use. How about we all l2p, then talk about weapon balance in a few months? I’ve already played against people who dominate with the light rifles, pistols, heavy weapons, you name it.

(Glyph) #45

^^^This!

Seriously, the Heavy is just fine if you know what you are doing with it. I love the Maximus MG but even I have learned when to burst fire it and when not to use it. You have a secondary for a reason, use it. Heavies are a force to be reckoned with and I fear for the SMG sprayer that happens to cross their path.

L2P newbs. If you feel the same way in a few weeks than insert n00bs in place of newbs.

(trollface) #46

We’re talking fps games where hand-eye coordination is everything, so my statement is relevant.
Being a skilled Wow player (competitively) is more about having a gameplan and knowing how to counter skills/spells. The only thing you need to know about your enemy in BRINK is where his head is.

Worlds apart.

As for the OP smg’s…
You guys have any idea how powerful the automatic pistols are? It’s like an smg with close to no recoil exept with less damage falloff at range. The fire rate allows you to go for headshots and destroy any class/weapon combination at medium-short range with this weapon. Fail safe.

Or even more ridiculous, the underbarrel launcher for the assault rifles. If i wield this thing, as a heavy or medium, no light with an smg on the planet can kill me in a 1on1. Or any bodytype for that matter. I guess those hours of hilarious raging people with noobtube and OMA in MW2 (yes, cod reference eat your hearts out) payed off.

So to conclude: You get killed by smg’s a lot? Yea, thats because a lot of players like to move fast as a light and have smg’s as a primary.
Are smg’s op? Hell no.

Right now people are moving around a lot, exploring the maps and trying to figure them out. Once things have settled people will know the familiar routes, where to cover, how to approach a corner. And thats when assault rifles -who require more preparation- will shine.

(tokamak) #47

We’re talking fps games where hand-eye coordination is everything

Good then at least we agree that charging a heavy head-on with your SMG and standing a good chance winning should change.

(trollface) #48

No we don’t. I’m saying the way people play heavy needs to change.

Close range you should be using your secondary. Most assault rifles have fast enough fire rate for you to be able to get a couple of headshots in on a moving target. If getting headshots with assault rifle is too hard, switch to smg or automatic pistol. Whatever the case, you have to go for headshots. Lights can’t afford the luxury of shooting the body of a heavy or medium. Why should you?

I play a light lvl 20 main, and medium/heavy lvl 18 backup. Never had problems as heavy in close range since i run with my secondary out. MG/spam weapon is just for harassing objectives or covering trafficed lanes. By this i mean i’ve never felt underpowered.

EDIT- btw i don’t mean you as in you tokamak, i mean people in general.

(felismenari) #49

Since this seems like a more appropriate topic for this, I’ll post it here.

I initially thought I would gravitate towards the heavy body type as a soldier (I’m a sucker for LMGs, and only a heavy can use them), but after playing with all the heavy-only weapons, I’m left disappointed. The Chinzor and Gotlung are more for CQC, and cannot be accurate outside of that close range. That’s not really my cup 'o tea. So, the Maximus naturally would be the better fit, but it’s lack of attachment options and accuracy is a let down (I personally feel like it should have the front grip attachment to help differentiate it from the other big guns. Right now it just feels underwhelming.).

Beyond the first shot from the Maximus the bullets start to spread, making it more difficult to use at range than you would think. Any automatic AR is just as, if not more accurate (absolutely more accurate in the case of the Gerund), meaning any medium with an AR could gun down a heavy wielding the Maximus at medium-long range without too much trouble. I definitely appreciate the bonus health a heavy comes with, but they just don’t feel deadly or fearsome enough to warrant playing as one. I’m sure there are specific situations where they can be pretty useful, but for the most part it seems you’re better off playing as a different body type.

(tokamak) #50

That’s what I want heavies to do, but as of now people simply aren’t discouraged by the threath of these area denial weapons, they just rush in and hope for those headshots.

(peteXnasty) #51

I sometimes feel headshots are too powerul in games and it helps destroy the sense of balance with guns. The LMG’s have a role but are negated by yes, someone rushing in spraying at the had with a carb 9. Would removingthe concept of a hadshot help define gun roles better?

Right now IMO the trade off to play heavy isn’t worth it. Granted I have yet to get a full group to give me support buy playing as a heavy and having to walk for a good minute to the objective only tovget gunned down haldwa by a light with a SMG before I have time to get a bead with my hjammerdiem, and then walk BACK, isn’t fun at all :confused:

(tokamak) #52

Yes! That’s a huge factor in this. It also seems that every gun has the same damage ratio between head and body which doesn’t have to be that way at all. Spray weapons (SMG’s but also gotling and chinzor) and shotguns should have much less difference between head and body than accurate weapos (AR’s like Rockstedi, the Maximus, certain pistols).

Oh there’s so much you can do with this. I wish I had the tools to keep tinkering with this all day.

(BeyondSpectrality) #53

Not if the heavy is using an SMG. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

But I do agree about the trade off from medium to heavy isn’t quite enough.

(Kairus) #54

I’m all for a heavy buff, I’ve tried it and it’s definitely not worth using.

(H3LLS1) #55

[QUOTE=BeyondSpectrality;312807]Not if the heavy is using an SMG. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

But I do agree about the trade off from medium to heavy isn’t quite enough.[/QUOTE]

WORD. make the benefit of using the heavy body worth the cost of speed. increase health would be the best way.

(Kryhavok) #56

Good points all around. Im going to have to continue play-testing the Heavy before I really know what they need.

(peteXnasty) #57

Honestly, I feel like heavies need a slight boost in base Hp, the maximus should have more managable recoil OR a grip, and the chinzor and gottlung should have their spray stabalize over sustained fire as your guy kinda gains control over the initial burst…have it be the reverse effect, it tightens over time vs spreading.

(RaKeD) #58

I’ve posted this in the thread “Open discussion HEAVY class” in the general discussion forum already but figured it will fit here very good as there are many people who are discussing about the heavy class in here.

Here is the link to the thread and the whole discussion if you are interested:

http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/s...t=25752&page=3

What follows now is a combination of 2 posts so it s a little bit longer.I really tried to analyse the gameplay mechanis of the heavy to be able to make competent statements.So here are my thoughts on the heavy:

Special weapons aren’t compensating the slow movement speed a heavy has to deal with, this simply means special weapons for the heavy class aren’t good enough.

It is ok for me that the automatic nade launcher isn’t that effective to kill ppl but the machinge guns are the real problem in my opinion.I am going to explain why i made this statement.

All LMG’s and the gatling gun, start to get an artifical bullet spread(Not recoil !!) very early.This makes automatic fire impossible to control with skill, e.g. recoil that is strong but controlable.This would mean a player needs some skill to handle the recoil and compensate for it.Bullet spread on the other hand just happens and there isn’t much you can do.(Crosshair circle starts to expand and bullets are going all over the place in this circle)

The minigun isn’t instantly recovering completely from bullet spread when you stop shooting.In fact the gatling gun needs a lot of time to completely recover from the artifical bullet spread which starts as soon as you start shooting (Crosshair circle get s bigger instantly but isn’t recovering instantly when one stops shooting).

This makes even shooting burst not really effective as you have to wait too long till the artifical bullet spread is completely gone! The Chinzor MG is an exception but it has a pretty bad accuracy and bullet spread from the start, like the minigun.

The Maximus LMG on the other hand is more accurate but has a random and almost uncontrollable recoil, specially random x-axis recoil.

This means you can’t provide effective supressive fire either, especially at medium to long range.

All LMG’s and the minigun just aren’t effective at medium or long range, it is not possible to lay down effective supressive fire at a certain spot.

This renders all the “machine guns” uneffective at medium to long range,furthermore more and more heavy players report that they are getting heavily damaged or killed by the light class with smg’s in close quarter combat (especially Carb-9, imo).I mention this because it seems like the special weapons of the heavy seem to be meant to really shine in close quarter combat in the current build of the game but the thing is, they don’t shine there either, nor do they at medium to long range.

The heavy doesn’t have that much more health, in fact they can be mowed down pretty fast with headshots and headshots are easy to pull of on heavys as they walk so slow.In my opinion the health doesn’t have to get increased by much but the main reasion heavys aren’t effective are the weak special weapons.

Furthermore i am not a big fan of aritifical bullet spread no matter what weapon or class.In my opinion it reduces the skill factor in a game and benefits lucky headshots.Y-axis recoil is great as it can be compensated and needs skill, it s acutally in the “hands” of the player.X-axis recoil is also welcome as long as it moves only into one direction, e.g. you hold down the trigger and the weapons crosshair/ironsights moves up (Y-axis recoil) and to the right(X-axis recoil)

In my opinion there is no need to give SMG’s random bullet spread to make them not effective on distance as this can be achieved by reducing the damage it deals at long range.This would reduce this pray and spray mentalitly, bring more skill into the game and make aiming more important.

(djtool) #59

I wonder what the place of machine guns would be in this game then? If SMG is good at short range, and AR’s are good at mid to long range…where does a machine gun fit in?

machine guns are typically used as suppression but in a fantasy-land like BRINK the other team does not fear death and just stands up and plinks the heavy in the face.

So what would be the consensus ‘job’ of the machine gun in BRINK? No…a SMG should not be more deadly at close range when both guns are firing. Perhaps the machine gun needs to do more damage, have a tighter cone, and have a setup time before firing. In this scenario the machine-gun becomes a superior weapon that can be used for suppression, but can not be toted around and shot on a whim. In the above scenario heavy’s should move even slower to further punch home the role of suppression and area denial. That way while the machine gun is the superior weapon when firing at short to mid range, the SMG and AR provide superior mobility and the opportunity to actually advance.

perhaps a model or two of the machine guns can function as they do now, with decreased this or that.

…and the gatling gun needs to be more scary. If you were running around with a SMG and turned to face a hulk of a man with a spun up gatling gun…you might plant a brown mine. that should be the feeling.

That’s just a brainstorm to help get thoughts flowing.

(Got2ball) #60

[QUOTE=Fox_McCloud;309588]First of all I’d like to say that I am really enjoying this game but there are some things that really annoy me about it.

First of all SMGs are far too powerful in this game, either nerf them or buff other weapons. I was playing as heavy and I got the drop on a light/medium enemy and opened fire on him with an AR to his back, at about the same time a light opened fire on me from behind and I got killed while the guy I was attacking was still at 1/4 - 1/2 health. There are 2 problems with this.

  1. SMGs have only a very, very, very small damage reduction compared to ARs yet they have a much higher fire rate and are more accurate which makes them ridiculously deadly.

[/QUOTE]

I completely agree with this and actually just posted about this in a feedback thread. SMG’s are like the be all weapon in Brink every other weapon is useless compared to them. It really makes no sense that they do pretty much the exact same dmg as AR’s yet are more accurate, have less kick especially going full auto and have a much higher RoF.

You would think an AR would have less kick especially firing for extended peroids of time over an SMG as well as them being much more accurate and doing a little more dmg then they do now.

Also it sucks to say it but shotguns are pretty useless in Brink as well. They have no accuracy especially when moving and the slow rate of fire makes them worthless considering you have to hit someone 2-5 times depending on buffs to kill them. By the time you hit them maybe 2 times your dead from a full auto weapon.

Same thing goes for light rifles and the semi-auto rifles they really have no use or advantage in using with how slow the RoF is and how little dmg they do (besides the bolt action that does good dmg but again useless unless your are completely still and even then the recoilt from the first shot takes so long to recover from you’ll be dead before you can get another shot)