The Heavy NEEDS a buff/ SMGs are too good

(Fox_McCloud) #1

First of all I’d like to say that I am really enjoying this game but there are some things that really annoy me about it.

First of all SMGs are far too powerful in this game, either nerf them or buff other weapons. I was playing as heavy and I got the drop on a light/medium enemy and opened fire on him with an AR to his back, at about the same time a light opened fire on me from behind and I got killed while the guy I was attacking was still at 1/4 - 1/2 health. There are 2 problems with this.

  1. SMGs have only a very, very, very small damage reduction compared to ARs yet they have a much higher fire rate and are more accurate which makes them ridiculously deadly.

  2. The heavy does not have enough health to warrant playing the class, he only has about 2 buffs worth of health more than a light and in this game all that means is you have vastly less mobility yet you get torn down only about 1 second longer.

Now on to heavies.

Once again is the health and speed issues as I have already said, they are too slow so you spend most of your time getting to an objective to get torn down by some light with an SMG. The health is supposed to let you recover from ambushes but you die long before you can turn around to return fire to a light that have parkoured his way around to the back of you.

  1. The MG and miniguns are just plain bad. They seem to have a damage level simlar to other weapons yet have terrible accuracy and in the case of the minigun has the spinup.

With the bad accuracy in a straight fight with any other class they usually overpower you at anything other than point blank which in this case is most fights.

The problems with the spin up lies with the heavies health issue. The health should be able to counter act the spin up time but unless you are already spinning up you will die. I got ambushed by a light and turned around and started spinning the minigun immediatly, I didn’t even turn the full 180 degrees before I had died, the health should give you a fighting chance as you have taken the burden of terrible movement.

I think that’s most of what I have to say, if you have any questions, notice any holes in my story or just want to say I’m just bad, go right ahead.

(RAAAAAAAAAAGE) #2

Is this against bots? Because the bots don’t have any recoil, example I got instakilled from about 100 yards away by a bot smarting over some crates using the Tampa SMG. Human players would miss when shooting you so you might stand a better chance as a heavy then.

But your right, heavies i think need a bit more HP and the heavy weapons need vamped up a bit, so far the only heavy weapons worth using are the Hjammerdeim Shotgun and the Chinzor LMG. Minigun is too weak, E-Z Nade has too slow a fire rate, and the Maximus has too much recoil.

(Fox_McCloud) #3

It was online I was playng, bots seem pretty easy to kill, at least mid way through the campaign.

I know there is skill involved too but when I fired upon that guy with the AR and got killed by an SMG it just screams that something is wrong.

(tokamak) #4

Yeah I must say I have the same sentiment. Way too often do I get the drop on a light or medium guy with my Maximus, start firing and they turn around killing me in a few shots, never mind the other two machine guns.

Looking at this list you can tell that the heavy weapons have the similar damage per bullet as well as a similar rate of fire as AR’s. That means they have the same DPS on point blanc. However, both the Chinzor and the Gatling have a huge spread, making their real dps much lower and the same for the maximus with it’s low stability, fire more than two bullets and the gun kicks into a random direction even with muzzle brakes.

These weapons are inferior to the medium and light weapons. All they’ve got going for is their clip size (naturally offset by the long reload time).

As of now the heavy weapons are a joke. I really do hope that this is a concious temporary tactic to parade the SMART darling around for a while before the actual balance kicks in.

The Maximus needs to be as powerful as the GMPG in Quake Wars. The Gotling needs a debuff effect so it remains a pscyhological crowd control weapon.

(BeyondSpectrality) #5

AR’s are meant for mid range. At their best distance they rape an smg user, especially if you are burst firing.

Note to players, don’t run up to guys wih Shotguns or SMGs. If you do, melee them first…

(Fox_McCloud) #6

[QUOTE=BeyondSpectrality;309635]AR’s are meant for mid range. At their best distance they rape an smg user, especially if you are burst firing.

Note to players, don’t run up to guys wih Shotguns or SMGs. If you do, melee them first…[/QUOTE]

Yes but they should still do more damage per bullet so they should be ok for close range.

(Nanimo) #7

I have to agree with OP.

I’m playing only heavy, I’m doing good in most of the fights because I have long time experience in fps and people I encounter doesnt always have very good reflexes / way to move.

But once I have an experienced player in front of me(like some friend) being light with smg, either I die or kill him but with few hp left , from long range to close range (well at close range I usually die actually). That’s something you would expect if you were the same class/weapon as the people in front of you.

The ligth have ability to hit and run (thing he does perfectly). I thought the primary advantage of the heavy was to take more damage to lock zone and for the psychological effect, but you go down as quick as a medium (I know it’s not entierely true, but that’s the feeling). And that is in FFA, so in match vs some skilled player, Iguess I’ll be the easy-slow kill.

I usually use the maximus. Don’t like the way the chinzor feel and the spinning of the gotling is not for me. But as stated previously, the stability, even with nozzle, is horrible. It could be fine if the maximus was doing a little more dammage, making it more balance. But atm, yea, the only advantage is the big clip size.

Sometime I use smg with my heavy and it feels so easy to kill people, but then I loose my mobility… why not taking a ligth.

However, I love the heavy, I think it would be a very good bodytype if a lil’ balance was made. I just hope that in 2 weeks, the server won’t be filled with only light body type, smarting around everywhere because other body type are not a good trade-off.

(iFork) #8

I think the heavy should be immune to knockdown, it’s always funny to get knocked down by a light.

(jo3) #9

i agree with op. heavies don’t scare me like they should.

(Szakalot) #10

that sounds like a really good idea

(RaKeD) #11

I agree with the thread starter 100%.

(Kalbuth) #12

As Szak pointed, very good point

And yes, Heavies ain’t scary

(fearlessfox) #13

Not entirely convinced about SMG, I need to mess about with the other weapons so I know exactly how they sit.

However, the Heavy definitely needs a buff. If a heavy gets the drop on my medium with my SMG out, I see an easy kill not a scary lumbering death machine.

(Sono) #14

The only real problem I have with the heavy type is that the heavy weapons are more of a handicap than a benefit in all but the most specific of situations and fully upgraded SMGs are easily the best at close range combat between the drum attachment, rate of fire and reload time.

I hit 16 with my heavy char and went back to the medium class b/c I wasn’t even using the heavy weapons anymore and the small amount of extra health didn’t seem to merit the slower movement speed, bigger hit box and inability to access certain areas. To me, that’s the biggest problem…the pro’s just don’t seem to even come close to being even with the cons of being a heavy.

(jazevec) #15

Maybe heavies could have 4 ability slots instead of 3 ?

(Nanimo) #16

bumpin for interest

(GR0MIT) #17

Completely disagree with the OP’s SMG being to strong, wtf kid have you tried shooting someone from long range with one, it’s like throwing peanuts at ppl. but an AR has a mucher better kill range. The damage drop off for the SMG is just fine, even if it’s as irrating as hell for a light body type user like me i think it’s balanced enough to motivate me to play the objectives more such healing and capin command posts.

(INF3RN0) #18

The heavy weapons need some changes in my opinion. The miniguns seem decently designed, as they do significant damage in tight close quarters combat. The maximus however ought to be comparable to the ETQW GPMG, but there is a problem with how it works in Brink. Firstly there is not only Y axis recoil, but very noticeable X axis recoil as well. After the first initial shots, you can see the gun sway from side to side on top of the vertical bob. The maximus should be the most used heavy weapon for those who want to aim it, but instead all the heavy weapons seem to be designed to be high recoil spray guns. I for one would like to see only Y axis recoil when scoped on the Max, as the long equip time, slow reload, slow movement speed, difficulty to hit heads behind cover, etc already balance out the high damage it can do. Heavies are almost non-existent atm in competitive matches, as there isn’t much of an appeal for people to use them for the time being.

(tokamak) #19

Indeed, it’s the unpredictable recoil of the Maximus that makes it so unwieldy. The GMPG only had a slight spread increase with an Y-recoil, you could also fire in better bursts or even just a quick rythm to keep the thing in control. The Maximus instead makes weird sways without doing much.

Until now I also didn’t know what to do with the Chinzor but an increased damage with an overheat would give this weapon it’s own niche rather than being the MG inbetween the Maximus and the Gotling.

(Kurushi) #20

Agree. Put range into the mix a your SMG won’t do a lot.