The Grandeur?

(Amerika) #81

[quote=“jazevec;95337”]In general watching pubstoming videos has taught me the way to get a good K/D ratio is to play like a coward. Don’t defend objective, kill players where it’s easiest, not where it benefits team the most. Shoot some people in side tunnels, kill some on the bridge, make a long trip to shoot attackers from behind, retreat to an ammo crate away from objective. That’s why so many pubstomping videos with massive scores end up in a “LOSS”.

But I still want to see @Amerika shoot Grandeur at people on a level10+ server. In my experience there’s a huge difference between level10+ and unrestricted.[/quote]

In my experience level 10+ servers are virtually identical to regular pubs. Especially now that most players who didn’t quit after the first week are between 9 and 15. I play on them when there is a chance to (not often) and it literally feels like any other server and ends pretty much the same.

It’s hard to call me a coward considering how I play. But if I’m a coward because I don’t rush into 5 people with 20HP and no primary weapon ammo while my spawn timer is north of 20 seconds then I guess I’ll take that as a compliment. I am not a “take me out on my shield” player who wants to play as if they have honor because, well, that’s dumb if you want your team to win (contrary to your point).

You appear to have possibly not gotten a chance to play 5v5 competition either (not talking about ranked MM) where you play exactly like I do. This is in regards to playing smart, playing for advantages, using easily defensible areas or routes, back raging when possible and specifically to put a few of them on long spawns. You don’t sit and wait for a fair fight. You don’t play for honor. You don’t run straight at people. You play to win. This extends to pubs and to competition. The only thing that really changes between playing in a pub and in a 5v5 is in a 5v5 you’d just /kill out if you were in a bad position or had no access to ammo and were on a short spawn. In a pub half the fun is trying to work yourself out of those situations.

And considering my competitive history I am not too worried about how you perceive my play.

(jazevec) #82

So if my talking doesn’t bother you, and level10+ players are the same, why not start posting Level10+ server videos ? I notice you are not playing on them because there’s plenty of level < 10 people at the end of the scoreboard. 10+ know maps much better and don’t make so many basic mistakes. They aim better and are harder targets. We all know highest kill streaks are against worst opponents.

I really want to see a proof that Grandeur is a competitive weapon against competent people. Feel free to ignore the rest of my post.

It’s hard to call me a coward considering how I play. But if I’m a coward because I don’t rush into 5 people with 20HP and no primary weapon ammo while my spawn timer is north of 20 seconds then I guess I’ll take that as a compliment. I am not a “take me out on my shield” player who wants to play as if they have honor because, well, that’s dumb if you want your team to win (contrary to your point).
(…)

I tried not to mention your name in that part of the post, but you bite anyway. But as you wish.

It sounds plausible at first. But check out your Phoenix and Sawbonez videos.
“amerika where are u” - 1046/12198 support xp
“amerika you hacker” - 984/12633 support xp
“gg…nvm” - 324/12726 support xp
“I’m going heal mode.” - 1427/14867 support xp

I have all the 3 medic mercs unlocked and I would be embarassed to have so much support xp in a match. Hexa-flexa, whose videos I also watch, has a very similar playstyle. No matter what class he plays, kills are the priority for him, he’s basically a SMG with an ability attached. You hardly see him healing anyone, too. This makes videos repetitive after a while, because the only thing you learn from them is gunplay and movement.

Is this because all you care about is kills, or SMGs are all that matters in this game ? Now that I mention it I haven’t seen a single DB shotgun frag movie. Is the weapon balance so bad auto weapons + sniper are the only ones worth using ?

At least Hexa-flexa is an inspiring Rhino.

I’ve seen your quakecon videos so I know you’re a very good player. Exactly the kind of player I love teabagging, while using the “You’ve been doing this long… coulda fooled me.” taunt of Aura. Half the time they (much better players) respond with an angry rant :-).
Stop acting so insecure.

(Szakalot) #83

yup, Amerika’s post screams insecurity, trololol

(jazevec) #84

[quote=“SpectraBlitz;91043”][left]
On paper, the PDP is simply superior in every aspect to the SR[/left]
[/quote]
Even peripherial vision ?

Use PDP on closer ranges and you won’t know what hit you. Use Grandeur and you’ll see enemies before it’s too late. Red Eye is meant to be a medium range sniper. People asking for a scope are missing the point of the merc.

Speaking of Grandeur hipfire. Is it really relevant when Vasili has a machine pistol ? How is Grandeur hipfire better than machine pistol ?

(Szakalot) #85

grandeur can takeany mercs down xcept rhino in two hita. that is better than a machine pistol

(jazevec) #86

What it can’t do is reliably hitting those mercs in hipfire mode. You need better than average accuracy to reliably score headshots. Grandeur has below average accuracy in hip fire.

Case in point: latest Grandeur video by Amerika. In a 10 minute match he gets 7 hipfire headshots. Two of them when he surprises a MG Aura from behind. Another two are finishing shots (for example at the start of the video, he hits the Aura once in the body, then headshot). Those two headshots were overkill. So in the end we’re left with 3 headshots that made a difference.

If a level 50 player can’t reliably pull off headshots with Grandeur hipfire, who can ?

It’s not just hipfire headshots that are hard to get. In the same video, Amerika scores 3 (three) ironsighted headshots! And this is despite dominating the score board with 33/6 K/D! Clearly, the ironsights are hard to use and encourage him to just go for body shots.

Overall, Amerika’s videos prove Grandeur has problems.

(Szakalot) #87

so what? you were proposing the machine pistol is better than grandeur which is obviously false

(jazevec) #88

Just because you say it doesn’t make it so. What’s your argumentation ?

Tølen MP - 109.8 body DPS, 219.5 head DPS
Grandeur SR - 133.3 body DPS, head DPS - N/A

(Amerika) #89

[quote=“jazevec;95440”]So if my talking doesn’t bother you, and level10+ players are the same, why not start posting Level10+ server videos ? I notice you are not playing on them because there’s plenty of level < 10 people at the end of the scoreboard. 10+ know maps much better and don’t make so many basic mistakes. They aim better and are harder targets. We all know highest kill streaks are against worst opponents.

I really want to see a proof that Grandeur is a competitive weapon against competent people. Feel free to ignore the rest of my post.

It’s hard to call me a coward considering how I play. But if I’m a coward because I don’t rush into 5 people with 20HP and no primary weapon ammo while my spawn timer is north of 20 seconds then I guess I’ll take that as a compliment. I am not a “take me out on my shield” player who wants to play as if they have honor because, well, that’s dumb if you want your team to win (contrary to your point).
(…)

I tried not to mention your name in that part of the post, but you bite anyway. But as you wish.

It sounds plausible at first. But check out your Phoenix and Sawbonez videos.
“amerika where are u” - 1046/12198 support xp
“amerika you hacker” - 984/12633 support xp
“gg…nvm” - 324/12726 support xp
“I’m going heal mode.” - 1427/14867 support xp

I have all the 3 medic mercs unlocked and I would be embarassed to have so much support xp in a match. Hexa-flexa, whose videos I also watch, has a very similar playstyle. No matter what class he plays, kills are the priority for him, he’s basically a SMG with an ability attached. You hardly see him healing anyone, too. This makes videos repetitive after a while, because the only thing you learn from them is gunplay and movement.

Is this because all you care about is kills, or SMGs are all that matters in this game ? Now that I mention it I haven’t seen a single DB shotgun frag movie. Is the weapon balance so bad auto weapons + sniper are the only ones worth using ?

At least Hexa-flexa is an inspiring Rhino.

I’ve seen your quakecon videos so I know you’re a very good player. Exactly the kind of player I love teabagging, while using the “You’ve been doing this long… coulda fooled me.” taunt of Aura. Half the time they (much better players) respond with an angry rant :-).
Stop acting so insecure.[/quote]

When you pub, you might like to sit behind people and revive them/heal them. You possibly do not mind going 10-20 while playing. I don’t have fun doing that. I don’t like sitting back and watching other people try to do work. I like to play an offensive medic in a pub because it’s fun for me. What your post doesn’t consider is how little healing or reviving my team actually needs due to how I am playing and the other medics on the team. And you also seem to have missed that I did heal and revive when the opportunity presented itself. I don’t just sit there with paddles out hoping somebody dies in front of me game after game. I just don’t find that enjoyable.

If it were a real match and I was playing a medic I would be playing completely different as I’d be playing with people in front of me who I know can kill the others trying to kill us. And keeping them up is a priority. You seem to be under the illusion that playing in a pub is the same thing as playing in a match. It’s not. Just because I don’t sit behind players the whole game hoping they take damage while dying myself a lot doesn’t mean I don’t know how to play a proper medic if the situation called for it.

I try to make the game look like fun for people who want to see what it’s like to play Dirty Bomb in a pub that isn’t a frag movie. I learn by studying videos like this in multiple games so I decided to put up some of my own unfiltered. It’s awesome just how much you can pick up from watching videos like this (like demos back in the day). The good and the bad is all there for people to look at and can be potentially educational. And in this case be judged by some random person who is trying to get a reaction rather than have a conversation.

I intentionally don’t go for headshots on the GR unless it’s somebody sitting still (turret) or I adjust my aim after I start firing and they aren’t moving. You should go check out the Moa vids if you want to see head hunting. The GR sights are not that great in regards to going for reliable headshots but if you aim for the upper body, as you’ll notice me do a lot, you end up with headshots from time to time. This is something you’d know if you asked instead of presumed that I was simply missing them. I use the PDP in a similar manner (as do most people). A lot of times body shots quickly can put a person down faster and more reliably than always going for the head with a gun that won’t kill in one shot (for most mercs) and has rather awful sights. Also, during that video you cited, I am very heavily medicated with muscle relaxants and pain killers due to a recent injury I suffered (I start rehab today…fun). So there is that too.

Stop assuming how things happened and start asking questions as to why. Leave the childish barbs at the door, they aren’t welcome here.

(jazevec) #90

That sounds about right - when I land in a terrible team, being their medic can be a depressing experience, because I still end up being the best killer. It feels like my reviving doesn’t make a difference.

But in that case I usually just switch to another class. If you feel teammates are not worth reviving, why play medic at all ? Square peg, round hole. I would enjoy your videos more if you found teammates worth reviving and then played medic. And if you chose medic just to heal yourself, you potentially make the game more frustrating for others. I like to look at the scoreboard, and think: “Hmm, we have 3 medics, we don’t need a 4th one.”. But if everyone plays an Aura to have a fast merc with boomstick, you wake up 10 minutes later and realize no one heals. Frustration for everyone.

If you want to make the game look fun, check out the recent Fletcher videos by Hexa-Flexa (ragnak). He makes heavy use of Ahnuhld and stickies. It’s only lightly edited, it’s the same match just with respawn timer cut out. More clever ability use, that’s what I would like to see in your videos. Seeing SMGs over, over and over gets repetitive, and that’s not what the mercs are about ultimately.


And I dare to say his Rhino video is more inspiring than yours. It made me rethink Rhino and see maps in new light.

(Amerika) #91

I play medic because it’s fun to pub with. It’s a different style and mentality when playing as a medic. Again, you’re assuming I don’t heal anybody or revive anybody when I clearly do exactly that in the videos. But usually there aren’t people with me to heal or revive since I am playing aggressively and am not sitting in the back with paddles out. I also tend to kill a lot of people making healing/reviving not as necessary so I am being a preventative medic :slight_smile: I can be aggressive, get kills, have fun and still keep teammates who actually come with me alive and also win games.

I also enjoy doing something that should not work and making it works. Medics tend to be offensively weak in a lot of games and part of that is simply due to player mentality when reality actually differs. It’s fun taking something you thought you knew and mixing it up. sick6 used to be famous because, unlike almost all other medics on all other teams that go 2-20 every match, because their medics engaged and were heavily offensive. They found a lot of success doing this and it’s changed the competitive meta quite a bit and that was before medic trains were nerfed with the gib window changes so it’s more relevant than ever now.

It’s a pub. It’s not serious. You’ll also notice on Redeye and Vassili I push a lot and don’t sit back even though that’s how most of the playerbase plays those classes. Or learning to control the K121 while holding down the fire button. This makes me more qualified to give a properly thought out opinion on weapons and perceived power because I am not artificially limiting myself to a set role and a set play style. I know the ups and downs in all situations and might find success doing things others won’t even think to try.

I hope he plays Rhino better than me haha. I dust him off once every 3 or 4 weeks at most, quickly remember that he’s not as fun or good as Fragger, and put him back away. So I hope you didn’t watch my one Rhino video that wasn’t even 100% Rhino and consider it inspiring.

Also, that vid you linked is highlights, it’s not a full match with the good and bad. I don’t find a Rhino who doesn’t gib downed opponents and constantly spins up his mini-gun giving away his position to be all that inspiring. Most good DB players know this game has rather good positional audio and a Rhino that isn’t using N20 (pretty sure he wasn’t) and constantly giving away his position will be naded or avoided or peek shot from a range that the minigun is less effective at. At first I thought he wasn’t gibbing so he could draw people out to shoot them too (I do that for medics) but after watching that I am not so certain.

I have multiple videos of me playing Rhino where I flanked and killed whole teams. Just none of them I cared to put up because the overall run wasn’t that interesting overall or informative. It was just me mowing the lawn by shooting people in the back with a weapon that is easy to do that with. A video has to be interesting for me to put it up. Like most competent players, I could easily make highlight videos but that’s not why I put my vids up. I like seeing the bad things that can happen or mistakes as those are just as good to learn from as the 15 kill runs if not more-so. People can more easily judge how good a merc is or a gun is when they can see it all and typically multiple videos from multiple maps where both the positive and the negative are shown.

You seem to like shotguns and appear to not like that I don’t use them. I hate shotguns in most games and I don’t like them in DB. They are very good at close range but that’s it. I also don’t enjoy Fletcher’s playstyle (detailed below). I also don’t know what you mean about always using SMG’s. I use the K121 and M4 in way more videos. I simply do not like playing as Aura because I am not a fan of the Blishlock and shotguns, as stated, are not my favorite and are highly limited and I just don’t like lower HP mercs. Same reasoning in regards to shotguns/blish applies to Fletcher and doubles up with me also not liking his hop and throw stickies and pray style which goes against me enjoying weapons and raw consistent aim. I can respect Aura and Fletcher players but I don’t enjoy the playstyle (and in Aura’s case the low HP).

Since you don’t get to see a shotgun in action and I’m not just doing highlights like the guy you posted is doing you won’t like my vids. That’s cool. At least you learned you don’t like them or that playstyle which is good enough for me and exactly why I put them up. Well, I also put them up because I have hundreds of matches lost to time (and harddrive failures) and it’s nice knowing I can not keep a repository of what I was up to that year even if it is mostly pub play right now. When DB gets a bit more finished I will start taking competitive (not MM) more seriously. I’ll be putting those vids up as well.

(platinumOverride) #92

well, this tread is about the grandeur, which needs a buff and not who has the bigger cohonas, clearly that needs a nerf.

Pls stop the derailing !

(Patrol1985) #93

Some people have been asking for an example of grandeur being used in a high-level competitive match. There ya go then. [pdG]Fr0sZ used it in the cup which was held last Sunday. After the round he was second in his team as far as score goes.

Fast forward to 01:37:00. That’s where the round begins. Fr0sZ is quite often the POV player too. His grandeur is really deadly. The link (remove the space between the first “h” and “t”)

h ttp://www.twitch.tv/dbnationgg/v/21303548

(platinumOverride) #94

I played against him from time to time, he is sick - but !

I doesnt matter what u give him, he will be sick anyways

(jazevec) #95

He used Grandeur purely as a sniper rifle. So I wonder why he used Grandeur and not PDP. None of the Red Eye augments boost smoke, IR vision etc.

(Patrol1985) #96

There are some fragments where he joins the fray. I think he considers grandeur good middle ground between PDP and dreiss. On the one hand he can utilize grandeur well as a sniper rifle, on the other hand he is probably more efficient with it at closer ranges than he would be with PDP. Pay attention to those parts where he leaves the sniper nest - he’s still quite deadly.

And yes @platinumOverride I agree he would be very good with any weapon, but he knows that too and still he decided he would be the most efficient with grandeur. There probably is something to it, his effectiveness is certainly a proof that the weapon has its place in DB.

(platinumOverride) #97

It has absolutely his place in this game, i play it only with redeye. But i know that he uses custom mumble overlay (cause the iron sight is crap). The point is his amazing movement (jump shots, ads, and movement to get these positions) and the support of his team (he was almost never the target, his mates distract the enemy). He trains a lot - but most of all his aiming is incredible, there is no way, even if i would practise 8 hrs a day, i wouldnt be able to imitate that.

SoI still prefer to give the grandeur a better hip fire and iron sight ( to make it more accessable).

I am pretty sure, that noone else can copy his capabilities with red eye for a long term, if it stays like the current way. Actually Frozt is one of the players i reported the crap out of as i first met him ingame^^, he is one of the living aimbots.

I still think the grandeur needs a buff, even if there is 1 person who can utilizie it, cause there are so much things which have to be considered for him play the grandeur like he does. And even if he was top fraggin, the whole team was dominating and worked well together. As long there is no buff, we wont see another redeye player with his skillset.

(Szakalot) #98

yup, just because one player can be effective doesn’t mean that the weapon is good.

(Tanker_Ray) #99

After the patch, terrible iron sight and FOV is fixed, so its all good now.
I am happy to use Redeye nowadays.

I’m still not satisfied with its number of preparatory magazines… it should be 12/36, not 12/24.

(Szakalot) #100

terrible ironsight is still terrible, even if it fires where you are pointing at