The Golden Gun

(Covel42) #1

Hey guys,

First off, hello, lovely forums you have here :smiley:

Now to the point, I’ve been gaming for along time and there is something that has always bugged me. ‘The Golden Gun’.

What I mean by this, is that every multiplayer/coop game I have ever played has had a ‘go-to’ weapon that has either, a massive advantage, or , no negatives. I hate it, its spoiled otherwise great games.

Take games with great weapons, great mechanics, many choices, and all this goes out of the window when a ‘Golden Gun’ is introduced. Sometimes a Golden Gun is added to help less skilled/newer players have fun with a game.

Great idea, but in theory this weapon will also be used by the top strata of the playerbase,effectively leading to a ‘join us or lose’ scenario.
Another reason why a Golden Gun appears is just pure and simple, bad balance.

Take a good all-round weapon that has flaws, add a perk/spec/upgrade system, and sometimes unforseen results happen and this weapon loses it flaws and becomes a Golden Gun.

Now finally getting to the point, from what i’ve read (snipers having a harassing role in Brink) and seen (QW:ET’s class balance), I’ve got a lot of hope of this game being one where choice is real not just a facade.

We’ve all played games where this has been the case; one weapon/tactic trumps all. In your opinions, what can be done to avoid this situation whilst keeping variety?

(signofzeta) #2

I can assure you, there will be no golden gun in this game. Although using it in 007 nightfire is super hard for me.

(Covel42) #3

At least that gun was obviously ‘Golden’.:slight_smile:

I’ve just read the Skewed and Reviewed interview with Richard Ham. It looks like they have taken a new approach by combining weapons into light, medium and heavy groups. This sounds really interesting.

Maybe they go…
Light=precise/lower damage>>>Medium=balanced>>>Heavy=indiscriminate/high damage.

(dohfOs) #4

well. i would say the exact opposite. i can’t really come to think of one single mp-game that doesn’t have this sort of “golden gun” (or guns if u look on different class might have another “golden gun” then the other). that is - if they don’t do every weapon the exact same thing/stats with a different model but i can’t imagine that they would do that.

obviously there will always be people referring to their golden gun as something else then the actual golden gun (sorta speak) depending on their type of play. but all in all… generally there will always tend to be one or two play-styles that will be most commonly seen on the servers. hence my guess would be that there eventually will be golden guns for those two, whether we/they like (or did it on purpose) it or not. feels inevitable.

:stroggtapir:

(tokamak) #5

Heavy weapons don’t always need to be inaccurate of course.

But I get what you mean. Shattered Horizon has just started adding a variety of weapons instead of just one all-rounder and the beta testers are having a hard time get it right.

(Voxie) #6

Greetings stranger and welcome to the forums! We mostly don’t bite… mostly.

zeta, I’m afraid that it probably isn’t that simple. With all the different body types, abilities, map objectives, and of course the 24+ firearms, grenades and melee weapons there will no doubt be some builds that gain the competitive edge over the rest. Time will tell how much so. Game balancing is hard, especially when you have the level of customization as in Brink. Post-launch patching and balancing is key in a complex multiplayer game to keep this sort of stuff from happening.

(dohfOs) #7

[QUOTE=Voxie;222789]Greetings stranger and welcome to the forums! We mostly don’t bite… mostly.

zeta, I’m afraid that it probably isn’t that simple. With all the different body types, abilities, map objectives, and of course the 24+ firearms, grenades and melee weapons there will no doubt be some builds that gain the competitive edge over the rest. Time will tell how much so. Game balancing is hard, especially when you have the level of customization as in Brink. Post-launch patching and balancing is key in a complex multiplayer game to keep this sort of stuff from happening.[/QUOTE]

hmm. yeah. that was pretty much exactly what i tried to write2 posts up but using some weird typo-language. ah well. lemme say i second voxie then!

:stroggbanana:

(AnthonyDa) #8

[quote=Covel42;222784]Maybe they go…
Light=precise/lower damage>>>Medium=balanced>>>Heavy=indiscriminate/high damage.[/quote]
Maybe not, especially for the poor Heavy, he is already superlow and has probably a bigger hitbox …
Also, you might want to play better game (aka much more balanced), like w:et or QL.

(Covel42) #9

[QUOTE=Voxie;222789]Greetings stranger and welcome to the forums! We mostly don’t bite… mostly.

zeta, I’m afraid that it probably isn’t that simple. With all the different body types, abilities, map objectives, and of course the 24+ firearms, grenades and melee weapons there will no doubt be some builds that gain the competitive edge over the rest. Time will tell how much so. Game balancing is hard, especially when you have the level of customization as in Brink. Post-launch patching and balancing is key in a complex multiplayer game to keep this sort of stuff from happening.[/QUOTE]

And add in command-post buffs and thats a huge list of factors to juggle. But I’m sure that Spalsh Damage’s obvious attention to detail will get the job done.

Thanks for the welcome. i’ll try and avoid the biters.:wink:

(Covel42) #10

[QUOTE=AnthonyDa;222791]Maybe not, especially for the poor Heavy, he is already superlow and has probably a bigger hitbox …
Also, you might want to play better game (aka much more balanced), like w:et or QL.[/QUOTE]

I guess the heavy will have a higher health pool to counter that?

I’ve just downloaded W:ET, but it make take me a while to see how the balancing is done. Could you briefly describe any methods they’ve used to achieve balance in those games?

(xdc) #11

As long as we don’t get weapons with random spray im fine. im looking forward to accurate weapons

(signofzeta) #12

even if there is a golden gun in the game, in ETQW, and Wolf ET, the so called “golden gun” is dependent on the player who uses it.

Golden guns are mostly found in deathmatch in the form of the BFG10K, Dark Matter Gun, BFG 9000. I don’t think the Thunderbolt and the Rocket Launcher from Quake qualifies as a golden gun, because one isn’t as powerful as the other, and one isn’t as rare as the other to find in a map.

In ET games, there is obviously no golden guns, because anybody can pick whichever weapon. But in all seriousness, if there was a golden gun in ET and ETQW, they’d be the MP40, Thompson, Assault Rifle, and Lacerator. Because it is the easiest to use, but then again, isn’t the golden gun supposed to be the all mighty weapon that is supposed to be effective in all situations? And in the case in Brink, which I assume is similar to ETQW’s case, that each weapon isn’t the best in all situations?

(Szakalot) #13

Some guns are used more often than others, like SMGs in ET and L/AR in ETQW, but i would not go as far as saying they are golden.
Apart from the shotgun, just about any weapon in ETQW is usefull in some cases,
In W:ET all weapons are advantageous in specific cases.

(Bezzy) #14

The reason that there is always a “golden gun” in games is because the only way to perfectly balance weapons is to make them exactly the same. Technically, any assymetry is imbalance, but that same imbalance also creates a more interesting mind game/yomi layers:

As soon as difference comes in, it’s circumstance which decides what the best weapon is. And once circumstance comes in, then the mind-games start - “He’s inside, so he’s probably opting for the SMG, so rather than dive in there with my long rifle, I’m going to flush him out with a grenade and take him at range”.

If all weapons are the same, all equally balanced, then there’s no reason to use one over another. If some are better in different situations than others, then you start to get interesting benefits/penalties for HOW you use a weapon, and not just WHAT weapon you use.

(Covel42) #15

[QUOTE=signofzeta;222816]even if there is a golden gun in the game, in ETQW, and Wolf ET, the so called “golden gun” is dependent on the player who uses it.

Golden guns are mostly found in deathmatch in the form of the BFG10K, Dark Matter Gun, BFG 9000. I don’t think the Thunderbolt and the Rocket Launcher from Quake qualifies as a golden gun, because one isn’t as powerful as the other, and one isn’t as rare as the other to find in a map.

In ET games, there is obviously no golden guns, because anybody can pick whichever weapon. But in all seriousness, if there was a golden gun in ET and ETQW, they’d be the MP40, Thompson, Assault Rifle, and Lacerator. Because it is the easiest to use, but then again, isn’t the golden gun supposed to be the all mighty weapon that is supposed to be effective in all situations? And in the case in Brink, which I assume is similar to ETQW’s case, that each weapon isn’t the best in all situations?[/QUOTE]

The way i define a golden gun is that when using it, two players of equal skill when they face off, the one with the golden gun will always win if the situation doesnt favour either play or even favours the non-golden gun player.

put it simply, weapon choice (not picking an appropriate weapon, just picking the best) beating skill/tactical advantage.

(ispellcorrectly) #16

[QUOTE=Szakalot;222822]Some guns are used more often than others, like SMGs in ET and L/AR in ETQW, but i would not go as far as saying they are golden.
Apart from the shotgun, just about any weapon in ETQW is usefull in some cases,
In W:ET all weapons are advantageous in specific cases.[/QUOTE]

shot gun is great, how can you disregard that weapon? I admit, nailgun is a lot better but damn shotgun is a mint weapon!

(LyndonL) #17

[QUOTE=Covel42;222784]I’ve just read the Skewed and Reviewed interview with Richard Ham. It looks like they have taken a new approach by combining weapons into light, medium and heavy groups. This sounds really interesting.

Maybe they go…
Light=precise/lower damage>>>Medium=balanced>>>Heavy=indiscriminate/high damage.[/QUOTE]

From what I gather the Light/Medium and heavy weapons aren’t so much about ability, but more about who can carry them and how that will affect your movement etc :slight_smile:

(tokamak) #18

[QUOTE=Bezzy;222824]The reason that there is always a “golden gun” in games is because the only way to perfectly balance weapons is to make them exactly the same. Technically, any assymetry is imbalance, but that same imbalance also creates a more interesting mind game/yomi layers:
[/QUOTE]

Real golden guns are the ones that tread out of their niches or encroach of others though.

(Brink) #19

I haven’t come across a game which has a gun which cant be beaten. Apart from the AC130s canon in mw2. but thats fitted to an aircraft.:smiley:

(BioSnark) #20

tech + lacerator. Presumably this problem won’t exist in Brink, tho.