If there was a global pub MM system then those 25% would play with each other. Instead they are scattered a few per server, mixed with the 25-50% that shows promise and/or is still learning the ropes and the rest about which the least said the better.
It’s not an either/or situation. The game needs a better tutorial but that’s not mutually exclusive with balancing pubs.
If there was a global pub MM system then those 25% would play with each other. Instead they are scattered a few per server, mixed with the 25-50% that shows promise and/or is still learning the ropes and the rest about which the least said the better.
It’s not an either/or situation. The game needs a better tutorial but that’s not mutually exclusive with balancing pubs.[/quote]
There is one, it’s called Ranked
For pubs, it’s a casual environment where everyone can come in, play a bit, and drop out.
See, that’s what is really interesting to me, you guys want balanced matches but never touch Ranked. Maybe if all the people here who complain about game balance actually hopped on Ranked mode more I can actually find some God damn matches.
But no, let’s make 8v8 have matchmaking because it’s not at all absolute shit or broken because the maps are too small to handle 8v8, and the spawn waves do not allow enough time to get to the points, clear out a wave, and handle the objective, before the next wave comes.
Do you guys not get the issues here? You are arguing for balance where there really will never be any, it’s an uphill battle. And the devs see this crap, try to appeal to their audience, and yet you are still unsatisfied. Why? Because you are focusing yours and their attention in the wrong areas.
If there was a global pub MM system then those 25% would play with each other. Instead they are scattered a few per server, mixed with the 25-50% that shows promise and/or is still learning the ropes and the rest about which the least said the better.
It’s not an either/or situation. The game needs a better tutorial but that’s not mutually exclusive with balancing pubs.[/quote]
There is one, it’s called Ranked
For pubs, it’s a casual environment where everyone can come in, play a bit, and drop out.
See, that’s what is really interesting to me, you guys want balanced matches but never touch Ranked. Maybe if all the people here who complain about game balance actually hopped on Ranked mode more I can actually find some God damn matches.
But no, let’s make 8v8 have matchmaking because it’s not at all absolute shit or broken because the maps are too small to handle 8v8, and the spawn waves do not allow enough time to get to the points, clear out a wave, and handle the objective, before the next wave comes.
Do you guys not get the issues here? You are arguing for balance where there really will never be any, it’s an uphill battle. And the devs see this crap, try to appeal to their audience, and yet you are still unsatisfied. Why? Because you are focusing yours and their attention in the wrong areas.[/quote]
ranked cant be balanced while you mix solo and party queues. A group of solos will get smashed , even if they are better aimers; this isn’t CS where a great shot can pull through an unorganized team.
Like it or not, atm. ranked is broken and we are stuck with pubs. Just because its a casual drop in/out environment, doesnt mean that the game to game balance can’t be improved. It can, and greatly; considered how terrible the balance can be.
If there was a global pub MM system then those 25% would play with each other. Instead they are scattered a few per server, mixed with the 25-50% that shows promise and/or is still learning the ropes and the rest about which the least said the better.
It’s not an either/or situation. The game needs a better tutorial but that’s not mutually exclusive with balancing pubs.[/quote]
There is one, it’s called Ranked
For pubs, it’s a casual environment where everyone can come in, play a bit, and drop out.
See, that’s what is really interesting to me, you guys want balanced matches but never touch Ranked. Maybe if all the people here who complain about game balance actually hopped on Ranked mode more I can actually find some God damn matches.
But no, let’s make 8v8 have matchmaking because it’s not at all absolute shit or broken because the maps are too small to handle 8v8, and the spawn waves do not allow enough time to get to the points, clear out a wave, and handle the objective, before the next wave comes.
Do you guys not get the issues here? You are arguing for balance where there really will never be any, it’s an uphill battle. And the devs see this crap, try to appeal to their audience, and yet you are still unsatisfied. Why? Because you are focusing yours and their attention in the wrong areas.[/quote]
ranked cant be balanced while you mix solo and party queues. A group of solos will get smashed , even if they are better aimers; this isn’t CS where a great shot can pull through an unorganized team.
Like it or not, atm. ranked is broken and we are stuck with pubs. Just because its a casual drop in/out environment, doesnt mean that the game to game balance can’t be improved. It can, and greatly; considered how terrible the balance can be.[/quote]
Yes I get that, but I really don’t understand why people should be punished for playing with friends or decent people.
Yes, I get it, people don’t like playing with the odds stacked against them. But the vast majority of the people who play this game do not understand it. They do not know how to push, how to prioritize their tasks, how to properly aim and work together to get it done.
At that point, I do not believe the it is the dev’s responsibility, there are things they can do like a better tutorial and an auto shuffle for teams. But the player HAS to take responsibility at some point and accept that they are making mistakes and learn from them.
And I also do not believe parties should be punished, because it is literally no different than making friends with strangers or playing with people who have the same mindset as you.
If there was a global pub MM system then those 25% would play with each other. Instead they are scattered a few per server, mixed with the 25-50% that shows promise and/or is still learning the ropes and the rest about which the least said the better.
It’s not an either/or situation. The game needs a better tutorial but that’s not mutually exclusive with balancing pubs.[/quote]
There is one, it’s called Ranked
For pubs, it’s a casual environment where everyone can come in, play a bit, and drop out.
See, that’s what is really interesting to me, you guys want balanced matches but never touch Ranked. Maybe if all the people here who complain about game balance actually hopped on Ranked mode more I can actually find some God damn matches.
But no, let’s make 8v8 have matchmaking because it’s not at all absolute shit or broken because the maps are too small to handle 8v8, and the spawn waves do not allow enough time to get to the points, clear out a wave, and handle the objective, before the next wave comes.
Do you guys not get the issues here? You are arguing for balance where there really will never be any, it’s an uphill battle. And the devs see this crap, try to appeal to their audience, and yet you are still unsatisfied. Why? Because you are focusing yours and their attention in the wrong areas.[/quote]
Ranked is not drop in drop out. It’s level gated. It will never be the main mode. The only thing it needs from a SD is separating groups from solo players. Other that it needs more players. A lot more. Good luck with that. Your solution is good in theory, but in practice it doesn’t work, as we all see.
I’m surprised by your hostility towards anyone wanting better pubs. Pubs need to be better balanced to improve player retention. No one starts playing DB with ranked. The first contact with the game is pubs. If pubs suck, people stop playing before even reaching the minimum level required for ranked. This is a F2P game. It will not survive without pubs. Community no access to servers. When it’s dead, it’s dead. Like it or not, but the state of pubs is directly related to the health of the whole game.
Again, balancing pubs is not mutually exclusive with anything you said. But if you think that the devs shouldn’t be dedicating resources to the main mode of the game then you are wrong.
If there was a global pub MM system then those 25% would play with each other. Instead they are scattered a few per server, mixed with the 25-50% that shows promise and/or is still learning the ropes and the rest about which the least said the better.
It’s not an either/or situation. The game needs a better tutorial but that’s not mutually exclusive with balancing pubs.[/quote]
There is one, it’s called Ranked
For pubs, it’s a casual environment where everyone can come in, play a bit, and drop out.
See, that’s what is really interesting to me, you guys want balanced matches but never touch Ranked. Maybe if all the people here who complain about game balance actually hopped on Ranked mode more I can actually find some God damn matches.
But no, let’s make 8v8 have matchmaking because it’s not at all absolute shit or broken because the maps are too small to handle 8v8, and the spawn waves do not allow enough time to get to the points, clear out a wave, and handle the objective, before the next wave comes.
Do you guys not get the issues here? You are arguing for balance where there really will never be any, it’s an uphill battle. And the devs see this crap, try to appeal to their audience, and yet you are still unsatisfied. Why? Because you are focusing yours and their attention in the wrong areas.[/quote]
Ranked is not drop in drop out. It’s level gated. It will never be the main mode. The only thing it needs from a SD is separating groups from solo players. Other that it needs more players. A lot more. Good luck with that. Your solution is good in theory, but in practice it doesn’t work, as we all see.
I’m surprised by your hostility towards anyone wanting better pubs. Pubs need to be better balanced to improve player retention. No one starts playing DB with ranked. The first contact with the game is pubs. If pubs suck, people stop playing before even reaching the minimum level required for ranked. This is a F2P game. It will not survive without pubs. Community no access to servers. When it’s dead, it’s dead. Like it or not, but the state of pubs is directly related to the health of the whole game.
Again, balancing pubs is not mutually exclusive with anything you said. But if you think that the devs shouldn’t be dedicating resources to the main mode of the game then you are wrong. [/quote]
I am hostile because players do not take responsiblity for their problems in pubs.
9 times out of 10 people pick whatever merc they want rather than what the team needs, they DM instead of playing the Objective, they complain about matchmaking yet they never use their mic, never communicate, never push together, never let the Engis do their job or the Medics do theirs.
This is a rampant problem of inexperience, it has imo ZERO to do with some number based system that can only analyze each player based a on a set of stats and try to make the teams as even as possible.
There is a clear distinction between team mates who get it, and who do not. Those who do are carrying or busting their ass the whole game to win, those who do not spend more time typing in chat about how bad the game is than actually pulling their weight.
It’s part of being an adult, everyone has to work together to get the job done, and considering this a TEAM based OBJECTIVE shooter, yes, you gotta work together to get it done.
Granted, I will say that a large part of the problem also, is the maps are heavily defender sided and 8v8 is absolute horse shit as I have explained before. There is not enough time to get enough picks to push up, and plant the bomb, and then hold it till it blows.
The only environment where this is not an issue is 5v5 and 6v6.
[quote=“Watsyurdeal;142291”]I am hostile because players do not take responsiblity for their problems in pubs.
9 times out of 10 people pick whatever merc they want rather than what the team needs, they DM instead of playing the Objective, they complain about matchmaking yet they never use their mic, never communicate, never push together, never let the Engis do their job or the Medics do theirs.
This is a rampant problem of inexperience, it has imo ZERO to do with some number based system that can only analyze each player based a on a set of stats and try to make the teams as even as possible.
There is a clear distinction between team mates who get it, and who do not. Those who do are carrying or busting their ass the whole game to win, those who do not spend more time typing in chat about how bad the game is than actually pulling their weight.
It’s part of being an adult, everyone has to work together to get the job done, and considering this a TEAM based OBJECTIVE shooter, yes, you gotta work together to get it done.
Granted, I will say that a large part of the problem also, is the maps are heavily defender sided and 8v8 is absolute horse shit as I have explained before. There is not enough time to get enough picks to push up, and plant the bomb, and then hold it till it blows.
The only environment where this is not an issue is 5v5 and 6v6.[/quote]
In my opinion with a global pub matchmaking you wouldn’t meet those players very often. You would be so far apart in score/ELO/whatever that you just wouldn’t be matched together. On the other hand when you just pick random 12-16 people and throw them together then the effect is like you described above. 25% are carrying veterans and the rest is a mix of inexperienced players, TDMers etc.
A good tutorial will shift percentages, but there will always be a wide gamut of players that will clash together without matchmaking.
[quote=“MarsRover;142294”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;142291”]I am hostile because players do not take responsiblity for their problems in pubs.
9 times out of 10 people pick whatever merc they want rather than what the team needs, they DM instead of playing the Objective, they complain about matchmaking yet they never use their mic, never communicate, never push together, never let the Engis do their job or the Medics do theirs.
This is a rampant problem of inexperience, it has imo ZERO to do with some number based system that can only analyze each player based a on a set of stats and try to make the teams as even as possible.
There is a clear distinction between team mates who get it, and who do not. Those who do are carrying or busting their ass the whole game to win, those who do not spend more time typing in chat about how bad the game is than actually pulling their weight.
It’s part of being an adult, everyone has to work together to get the job done, and considering this a TEAM based OBJECTIVE shooter, yes, you gotta work together to get it done.
Granted, I will say that a large part of the problem also, is the maps are heavily defender sided and 8v8 is absolute horse shit as I have explained before. There is not enough time to get enough picks to push up, and plant the bomb, and then hold it till it blows.
The only environment where this is not an issue is 5v5 and 6v6.[/quote]
In my opinion with a global pub matchmaking you wouldn’t meet those players very often. You would be so far apart in score/ELO/whatever that you just wouldn’t be matched together. On the other hand when you just pick random 12-16 people and throw them together then the effect is like you described above. 25% are carrying veterans and the rest is a mix of inexperienced players, TDMers etc.
A good tutorial will shift percentages, but there will always be a wide gamut of players that will clash together without matchmaking.[/quote]
But that’s just it…why the fuck should a PUB have Matchmaking when it only serves as a means to provide a good balanced match for people who care about winning???
Ranked does just that
If they do what CS GO does, and forces parties to play against better players than them, aka a party full of Gold 1’s versus a solo que of Cobalt 3’s then there won’t be an issue. Cause DM and teamwork only do so much.
A Pub should always be the casual environment, that said, I do think @Szakalot is right about community servers. All the resources Splash puts aside for these Nexon servers should be Ranked, and a server development kit should be released for people to use for their own community servers. That’d bring in more players and allow people to play with a certain group of players on a more consistent basis. So that way I can actually play with people like @Amerika more often (challenge accepted).
[quote=“Watsyurdeal;142303”]But that’s just it…why the fuck should a PUB have Matchmaking when it only serves as a means to provide a good balanced match for people who care about winning???
[/quote]
It’s not about winning. It’s about making the game more enjoyable.
Balanced matches are more enjoyable. Matches where half your team doesn’t leave after 3 waves because they don’t think we can win are more enjoyable. Matches where you’re not a first patient of an Aura that drops a healing station on you and runs away are more enjoyable.
But it’s still casual:
Making pubs better makes the whole game better and more successful. It doesn’t take away from ranked. I does the exact opposite - more people stick with the game long enough to try ranked.
It’s the same thing as with min lvl10 servers. On every free-for-all server I see a few high level players, meanwhile I can go through a whole weekend without seeing a populated min lvl10 server in Server Browser in “Lobby” state.
At this point we are going in circles. I made my arguments why a global MM system makes pubs better, which in turn make the game better. I have nothing more to add 
[quote=“Watsyurdeal;142282”]
There is one, it’s called Ranked
For pubs, it’s a casual environment where everyone can come in, play a bit, and drop out.
See, that’s what is really interesting to me, you guys want balanced matches but never touch Ranked. Maybe if all the people here who complain about game balance actually hopped on Ranked mode more I can actually find some God damn matches.
But no, let’s make 8v8 have matchmaking because it’s not at all absolute shit or broken because the maps are too small to handle 8v8, and the spawn waves do not allow enough time to get to the points, clear out a wave, and handle the objective, before the next wave comes.
Do you guys not get the issues here? You are arguing for balance where there really will never be any, it’s an uphill battle. And the devs see this crap, try to appeal to their audience, and yet you are still unsatisfied. Why? Because you are focusing yours and their attention in the wrong areas.[/quote]
Maybe because ranked is not for everyone? Matches that last awfully long and often you require communication with the rest of the team if you want a chance.
In casual obj you can do a quickie and possibly have fun in matches that are fought over and fairly balanced.
Btw i’m quite happy with current obj balance, so it’s only a matter of not ruining it by adding party matchmaking.
[quote=“DMaster2;142526”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;142282”]
There is one, it’s called Ranked
For pubs, it’s a casual environment where everyone can come in, play a bit, and drop out.
See, that’s what is really interesting to me, you guys want balanced matches but never touch Ranked. Maybe if all the people here who complain about game balance actually hopped on Ranked mode more I can actually find some God damn matches.
But no, let’s make 8v8 have matchmaking because it’s not at all absolute shit or broken because the maps are too small to handle 8v8, and the spawn waves do not allow enough time to get to the points, clear out a wave, and handle the objective, before the next wave comes.
Do you guys not get the issues here? You are arguing for balance where there really will never be any, it’s an uphill battle. And the devs see this crap, try to appeal to their audience, and yet you are still unsatisfied. Why? Because you are focusing yours and their attention in the wrong areas.[/quote]
Maybe because ranked is not for everyone? Matches that last awfully long and often you require communication with the rest of the team if you want a chance.
In casual obj you can do a quickie and possibly have fun in matches that are fought over and fairly balanced.
Btw i’m quite happy with current obj balance, so it’s only a matter of not ruining it by adding party matchmaking.[/quote]
And that’s what I do not get, you want balanced matches but you don’t want to dedicate time to finishing it, aka leavers. You want to be able to drop in and out of games but want balance and not let people party up and play with friends.
You can guys can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Either you can have a serious balanced match, or let’s just play and have fun. The second one typically means that yea, you will have to deal with players who are better than you or players who do not know what the hell they are doing.
I absolutely refuse to let this game boil down to console levels of match making, this is a PC game. If Nexon wants to succeed, give us community servers, and CS GO like matchmaking for Ranked play. That’s all it takes. Having that kind of setup is exactly what killed Titanfall eventually on PC.
[quote=“Watsyurdeal;142713”]
And that’s what I do not get, you want balanced matches but you don’t want to dedicate time to finishing it, aka leavers. You want to be able to drop in and out of games but want balance and not let people party up and play with friends.
You can guys can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Either you can have a serious balanced match, or let’s just play and have fun. The second one typically means that yea, you will have to deal with players who are better than you or players who do not know what the hell they are doing.
I absolutely refuse to let this game boil down to console levels of match making, this is a PC game. If Nexon wants to succeed, give us community servers, and CS GO like matchmaking for Ranked play. That’s all it takes. Having that kind of setup is exactly what killed Titanfall eventually on PC.[/quote]
You got it quite wrong. Quickie=single obj game, because not everyone can play for long. Never talked about leaving midgame.
[quote=“DMaster2;142727”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;142713”]
And that’s what I do not get, you want balanced matches but you don’t want to dedicate time to finishing it, aka leavers. You want to be able to drop in and out of games but want balance and not let people party up and play with friends.
You can guys can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Either you can have a serious balanced match, or let’s just play and have fun. The second one typically means that yea, you will have to deal with players who are better than you or players who do not know what the hell they are doing.
I absolutely refuse to let this game boil down to console levels of match making, this is a PC game. If Nexon wants to succeed, give us community servers, and CS GO like matchmaking for Ranked play. That’s all it takes. Having that kind of setup is exactly what killed Titanfall eventually on PC.[/quote]
You got it quite wrong. Quickie=single obj game, because not everyone can play for long. Never talked about leaving midgame.[/quote]
Either way my response is the same, there’s no reason we shouldn’t be able to play with friends, and there’s no reason to put so much effort into balancing pubs like it’s Ranked.
[quote=“Watsyurdeal;142736”]
Either way my response is the same, there’s no reason we shouldn’t be able to play with friends, and there’s no reason to put so much effort into balancing pubs like it’s Ranked.[/quote]
There is a point, because casual obj will always be the most popular game mode. For the reasons i posted above. And if you don’t balance the most popular game mode, things won’t be nice and people will complain. No one enjoy constant spawncamping like what i see in stopwatch.
[quote=“DMaster2;142791”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;142736”]
Either way my response is the same, there’s no reason we shouldn’t be able to play with friends, and there’s no reason to put so much effort into balancing pubs like it’s Ranked.[/quote]
There is a point, because casual obj will always be the most popular game mode. For the reasons i posted above. And if you don’t balance the most popular game mode, things won’t be nice and people will complain. No one enjoy constant spawncamping like what i see in stopwatch.[/quote]
It’s about as balanced as it’s going to get, there is no reason I or anyone else shouldn’t be able to play with friends on a pub, and there’s nothing wrong with Stopwatch. What you described is a map problem more than anything.
[quote=“Watsyurdeal;142796”][quote=“DMaster2;142791”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;142736”]
Either way my response is the same, there’s no reason we shouldn’t be able to play with friends, and there’s no reason to put so much effort into balancing pubs like it’s Ranked.[/quote]
There is a point, because casual obj will always be the most popular game mode. For the reasons i posted above. And if you don’t balance the most popular game mode, things won’t be nice and people will complain. No one enjoy constant spawncamping like what i see in stopwatch.[/quote]
It’s about as balanced as it’s going to get, there is no reason I or anyone else shouldn’t be able to play with friends on a pub, and there’s nothing wrong with Stopwatch. What you described is a map problem more than anything.
[/quote]
If you add party matchmaking you destroy the current balance in objective.
[quote=“DMaster2;142851”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;142796”][quote=“DMaster2;142791”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;142736”]
Either way my response is the same, there’s no reason we shouldn’t be able to play with friends, and there’s no reason to put so much effort into balancing pubs like it’s Ranked.[/quote]
There is a point, because casual obj will always be the most popular game mode. For the reasons i posted above. And if you don’t balance the most popular game mode, things won’t be nice and people will complain. No one enjoy constant spawncamping like what i see in stopwatch.[/quote]
It’s about as balanced as it’s going to get, there is no reason I or anyone else shouldn’t be able to play with friends on a pub, and there’s nothing wrong with Stopwatch. What you described is a map problem more than anything.
[/quote]
If you add party matchmaking you destroy the current balance in objective.[/quote]
I fail to see how, by that logic if people use teamwork against a team who isn’t the balance is destroyed.
I’m sorry but if we can’t play with friends because that ruins game balance then that is not a developer issue. THAT is a player issue, people aren’t working together, they aren’t communicating or coordinating at all. But once one does over another team that somehow breaks the game.
Lol same discussion over and over again. There is MM if you want coordinated teams. People that join casual objective go there because they can chill and relax a bit. And possibly would like to see balanced games.
[quote=“DMaster2;142861”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;142855”]
I fail to see how, by that logic if people use teamwork against a team who isn’t the balance is destroyed.
I’m sorry but if we can’t play with friends because that ruins game balance then that is not a developer issue. THAT is a player issue, people aren’t working together, they aren’t communicating or coordinating at all. But once one does over another team that somehow breaks the game.
[/quote]
Lol same discussion over and over again. There is MM if you want coordinated teams. People that join casual objective go there because they can chill and relax a bit. And possibly would like to see balanced games.[/quote]
And again, there is too small of a player pool to get a match in Ranked.
If a couple of people who are buddies and work together ruins match balance for you then that has zero to do with balanced games.