The era of good FPS titles has long since passed and is not returning

(SphereCow) #161

Uhhh… But really, you should watch me play Wolfenstein:NoQuarter.

In any case, Quake players bind all their weapons to different keys + move keys + chat keys + script keys.

It’s really not that simple.

(Hyrage) #162

Always considering both, but since I’m very picky on the game I want to invest time on, there is nothing right now that would fit… so I better make one myself lol.

[QUOTE=Luddens Desir;327451]Uhhh… But really, you should watch me play Wolfenstein:NoQuarter.

In any case, Quake players bind all their weapons to different keys + move keys + chat keys + script keys.

It’s really not that simple.[/QUOTE]
Could you record your games with FRAPS and upload them on youtube?

(SphereCow) #163

Hold up im watching Shin Chan. In this episode he’s the dog and Whitey is the human!

This show is so great.

(TeoH) #164

[QUOTE=Hyrage;327428][ul]
[li]Professional gaming; leagues (MLG, WCG, etc.) + tournaments + earn money, just like a profession.
[/li][/ul][/QUOTE]

So i suppose that while playing PC first person shooters in pro leagues you opted to play on a gamepad, due to it being ergonomically superior.

(crazyfoolish) #165

Didn’t they have some crossplatform games for xbox and pc a while back/ Who usually won those firefights? My money would be on the PC players.

(SphereCow) #166

I really want to fraps this stupid demo, but I must have side stepped into the wrong server at some point and download stupid chicken grenades, or some ****. Really putting me off to this. : /

(jegis) #167

I’m finding it really hard to believe a person who claims to work professionally in the games industry and was involved in competitive games didn’t even know ET was free.

(NathanDavid) #168

Where did my post go? Should be right after crazyfoolish’s post. It just disappeared! Conspiracy?

(SphereCow) #169

Why do people always first suspect that someone who works in the game industry does not play games/post on game forums, even work where they claim? It’s not that magical a think to do, you know. : [

There are at least 4 forums off the top of my head filled with people who do, and they don’t just stick to those.

They spread to others, you know.

…

Like herpes–

What? What? Too much?

(howie) #170

[QUOTE=Hyrage;327387]For the math… there are a lot of keys on the keyboard but… what is great about the 360 controller is the ergonomy are the primary actions.

Primary actions

[ul]
[li]Left thumbstick
[/li][li]Left thumbstick press
[/li][li]Right thumbstick
[/li][li]Right thumbstick press
[/li][li]Left bumper
[/li][li]Left trigger
[/li][li]Right bumper
[/li][li]Right trigger
[/li][/ul]
All those functions are unified since the player can use all of them and still keep his control over character movement and camera.

On a mouse, it is possible to have multiple buttons, but it’s not going to be as efficient as what a player can do with his right hand + 360 controller. On PC, some of those actions would require the left hand to be performed. Also, to move your character on PC, you have 4 keys, 4 directions. Basically the left hand on PC has twice the job of a console player… and whatever the number of keys available are, it can be extremely difficult and might need to twist your fingers in very weird way to perform certain actions and still keep a perfect control on your character movements. I mean just try to master perfectly your movements in Soldier of Fortune 2, good luck because with the leaning it’s going to be quite a challenge, but it may help you to realize how hard it is with a keyboard to perform complex actions.[/QUOTE]

Your point seems to be based on how many buttons a pad user has access to while still being able to move and look around - the primary functions. Correct me if i’m wrong.

Say you’re using a standard wasd keyboard setup - each finger can press a button, giving a max of 5 that can be pressed simultaneously. Movement takes up 3 fingers and requires no more than 2 keys to be pressed at the same time. So far this compares pretty closely to your left hand on a pad - the pad coming out slightly on top with one extra button that can be used while moving. We shouldn’t disregard the no. of easily accesible keys near each finger on a keyboard, though (I use my left index finger for 6 keys on its own). That’s a considerable amount of functionality that isn’t available on a pad fullstop and i’d argue more than offsets being one button behind. Now take your average gaming mouse - your fingers will be resting on 4 buttons and you can look in any direction while pressing them. Again, this compares closely to a pad, this time the mouse coming out on top by one button. However, in addtion there’s the mouse wheel, which can often be pressed down, left, right, rolled up and rolled down, and usually a few more easy to reach buttons. Mine has 11 in total, and, more importanly, any can be used without taking away my ability to aim (unlike when using the face buttons on a pad). Now things are heavily in favour of a m&k setup when it comes to accessibility and functionality. I could touch on how much more responsive and precise digital on/off control is for movement compared to analogue control (notice I didn’t say better - just more suited to anything intricate and fast) or the obvious benefits of a mouse as a pointing device, but that’s a seperate argument for another day!

(Hyrage) #171

Was I involved in pro gaming before?
No. I’ve never said that I was involved into pro gaming. I said that I was involved into competitive gaming and that my friends are involved in pro gaming. I play with them from time to time, at least was playing with them regularly. Now, I’m way too busy with business stuff to play as much and as good as I used too.

Skeptical?
http://ca.linkedin.com/in/hyrage

Unfortunately, only a very few people and even fewer game devs are actually active on forums.

[QUOTE=howie;327742]Your point seems to be based on how many buttons a pad user has access to while still being able to move and look around - the primary functions. Correct me if i’m wrong.

Say you’re using a standard wasd keyboard setup - each finger can press a button, giving a max of 5 that can be pressed simultaneously. Movement takes up 3 fingers and requires no more than 2 keys to be pressed at the same time. So far this compares pretty closely to your left hand on a pad - the pad coming out slightly on top with one extra button that can be used while moving. We shouldn’t disregard the no. of easily accesible keys near each finger on a keyboard, though (I use my left index finger for 6 keys on its own). That’s a considerable amount of functionality that isn’t available on a pad fullstop and i’d argue more than offsets being one button behind. Now take your average gaming mouse - your fingers will be resting on 4 buttons and you can look in any direction while pressing them. Again, this compares closely to a pad, this time the mouse coming out on top by one button. However, in addtion there’s the mouse wheel, which can often be pressed down, left, right, rolled up and rolled down, and usually a few more easy to reach buttons. Mine has 11 in total, and, more importanly, any can be used without taking away my ability to aim (unlike when using the face buttons on a pad). Now things are heavily in favour of a m&k setup when it comes to accessibility and functionality. I could touch on how much more responsive and precise digital on/off control is for movement compared to analogue control (notice I didn’t say better - just more suited to anything intricate and fast) or the obvious benefits of a mouse as a pointing device, but that’s a seperate argument for another day![/QUOTE]
In this case, I fully agree that mouse+keyboard ends up being far superior. The thing is, is 11 buttons on a mouse a standard? And is there any standard on PC? And what if game controllers were improved the same way leaving no disadvantages too and everything perfectly accessible while aiming?

My guess, and it’s just a guess, the keyboard (default keyboard) is not optimized for gaming and when we will reach that point when mouse+keyboards and game controllers are going to be at their best… I’m pretty sure they could end up being very similar :cool:.

(SphereCow) #172

[QUOTE=Hyrage;327954]
Unfortunately, only a very few people and even fewer game devs are actually active on forums.[/QUOTE]

Not true. I’m sure you know which ones I’m talking about. : O

(Hyrage) #173

NeoGaf is only representing a few developers in the world, or did you have something else in mind?

(howie) #174

No, but it’s not at all uncommon. Most gaming mice have between 8 and 12 when you include the mouse wheel (which counts for 5 on mine).

No, which is no bad thing. I want to be able to customise each function to a key or button of my choice. It’s particularly annoying when multiplatform games/console ports don’t allow for the remapping of buttons - something that’s happening more and more often these days as PC gaming becomes an afterthought. BC2’s good example. A current game that feels cumbersome and resticted in its controls compared to fps we were playing over 10 years ago. Taking control away from the player is never a good thing.

I’m not sure what else can be done to improve them. The new Razer pad looks nice and tweaks what we already have, but doesn’t add anything new. Perhaps when motion controls develop further? The number of buttons isn’t the be all and end all ayways. I’ll always choose a m&k for online fps, but there are plenty of game types that work better with a pad.

If you do a quick google image search on gaming keyboards you’ll find a bunch that are designed with gaming in mind. Like with the Razer, though, nothing new is added - infact the most specialised take away keys. Some have fancy led keys that let you add your own images - a little shotgun picture for example - but really there’s no noticeable improvement other than being more ergonomically and aethetically pleasing. Infact, the only type of keyboard i’ve found that improved my game to any degree is one with laptop style keys as they’re more responsive. I would, however, like a decent analogue option to be used in conjunction with a mouse for certain games. Something like the Wii nunchuck.

(xzen) #175

They look so awesome, but $2134 :frowning:

(dazman76) #176

The technical workings of the analogue stick are the problem - so I don’t see how they can be improved sufficiently right now. I’m quite open to being proved wrong however :slight_smile: There’s no way - aside from simple acceleration curves - to instinctively alter the speed/precision of an analogue stick to match what the player wants to do with it at a given time.

As I said before (and you deflected cleverly but not logically :)) - anything you do in software is basically aim assisting. Crosshairs hunt targets when playing FPS games with analogue sticks - one way or another. If they didn’t, the game would be unplayable for a large portion of it’s audience. Well actually, they do get to stand still in open ground being shot from all angles and surviving - but they still need to kill things to progress :slight_smile: The current Rage videos are making me hope that the PC version plays completely differently to what I’m seeing, because the gameplay looks terrible. Hopefully they’re playing that on the “where am I again?” skill level…

(Metal-Geo) #177

For $2100, I wouldn’t even look anywhere but my keyboard. (Seriously, that’s more than both my monitors combined)

Also, the final product doesn’t look anywhere near as hot as that image. :frowning:

(fprovost) #178

I always end up going back to old games, any genres. Deux Ex, Diablo 2, HL, Street Fighter 2…

(xartion) #179

Okay, I’m done with Brink until or if SD improves it through patches. But in other news, one of the old games I talked about in one of my 1st posts QuakeLive (the free, updated and modified web-based game version of Quake 3) received a single update yesterday that has more content and features than all of the Brink updates released to date. Looks like I’ll be spending my time there from now on, thanks for the good discussion everyone

(DarkangelUK) #180

It’s only the paying subscribers that get the updated content… but yes I still play QLive (Q3), and have done for 11 years \o/