The death of Dirty Bomb

(neverplayseriou) #41

Why bother reworking phantom when all he needs is a bit more invisibility, with objectives like the last stage of bridge a phantom can lock the delivery point down (in pubs), kill the deliverer, cloack up, change position and kill the next guy trying to deliver.

(Naonna) #42

More invisibility, less cooldown… teamwork? Could be good options. - What @K-smooth said earlier in regards to bullet spread and aimpunch got me reminiscing.

I enjoyed a game called Loadout IMMENSELY - 400 hours in it despite its very short lifespan and getting into the game only a few short months before its devs were all killed and never heard from again.

The key aspects of Loadout which I enjoyed were the movement systems and that when you shot, regardless of your incoming damage, you would be able to hit your target. Combining this with the innumerable weapon types and balances allowed a near limitless skill ceiling, despite the game only ever being 4v4 pubs from release to death - with no voice chat and the game being balanced around this pub-layout.

The only bad thing from that game which lead to its death was that the devs stopped listening to feedback and wanted to make more money rather than retain players. - By the Loadout devs attempting to make the game user-friendly for the Playstation, they lost the members who had stayed close to the game. Simplifying the game made matters worse. Loadout made weapon construction based on RNG rather than simply unlocking a part. While this increased the playtime of their players, it reduced the ‘fun and simple’ factor the game was advertised as.

Bringing this all back to Dirty Bomb; I feel the advertised Dirty Bomb was intended to be gritty and encouraged skill via accuracy and positioning/movement: using merc abilities to shift the tide of battle as needed.

Adding massive weapon spread, (in a recent patch) amplified by the game’s (unique) movement system, means that players are less encouraged to mix both movement and accuracy.
I want this game to be balanced, but not be dumbed down. There’s a very high skill ceiling, but recent changes have lowered it: Making anyone who so much as jumps lose all focus on the center of their screen is a major one. Snipers hate it, and anyone with a burst-fire rifle is basically rolling the dice on if their long range shots get close to a head shot. For the bouncy close-range characters who use shotguns, it’s less problematic.

A major update to sparks removed her sniper-like damage. Head shots were the only issue for sparks: being able to instantly down some mercs. Post-nerf, however, Sparks lost a bit of her purpose. She doesn’t have the firepower to kill at long range, but struggles at close range, as it was her initial weak point. Sparks is basically forced to stay within Fletcher-range to do her full damage: which should usually result in the death of said Sparks.

The massive complaints about phantom early-on seemed reasonable: but by removing his damage and invisibility’s effectiveness against non-deaf and more skilled players and the massive extension to his cool down, Phantom has to wait longer between his encounters, which have to be 1v1 or MAYBE 1v2 for him to come out on top. The idea behind phantom seemed at first to be a stealthy character who would pick off individual targets. (Katana or gunplay allowing, Phantom SHOULD win any 1v1 he comes across.) Since Proxy does this job better (via shotgun headshots and high speed + her mines,) Phantom is a good example of over-nerfing a character. - To top this all off, Proxy is at least an engineer: allowing at least minor team play in comparison to Phantom’s zero.

All in all, I love mercs such as Pheonix and Stoker. They were released relatively balanced and never lost a purpose. The fact that SD changed Dome after listening to the community was a GREAT sign. It’s a very good map to play now. - We as a community demand a lot of the devs. We don’t often congratulate them when something is done well. Despite this, It doesn’t mean that there are things which can’t be addressed simply. Joking about the community’s frustrations of Phantom’s over-nerfing is not a great way to boost the player base’s morale and faith in your company.

(FUNNYBLACKMAN) #43

Even if its unclear, there is always a reason for the devs being so slow and keeping secrets.Trust them more and be patient.

(Ballto) #44

there is a private test server that theyre supposedly taking community feedback off of.

(pinkOrchid) #45

Are we already starting “death” threads? It is not even released yet.

(AnonOmis1000) #46

@Naonna didn’t read you’d whole comment but wanted to say something in regards to “dumbing it down”. One of the biggest tasks any game has is attracting new players and keeping them around. On ed thing DB has going for it is that it’s F2P so there’s no risk in trying it out. However, if the initial skill level needed to enjoy the game at the most basic level is too high, new players aren’t going to stick around. I agree they shouldn’t completely cater to the lowest common denominator, but you have to understand why they “dumb things down” to an extent.

BTW I also played Loadout. I paid into it when it was in closed beta, though I fell out of interest before it died when I started getting into CS GO.

(solace_) #47

Really, my biggest gripe is that they just don’t give progress “reports”.

I’m not saying they should give every detail down to three decimal place accuracy but it would be kinda nice to, for instance, hear how Gallery and Dockyard are coming along. At what point are they with the maps? Finishing touches? still texturing? We don’t know.

If they made a small post once a week or every two weeks telling the community about their progress on current project, I feel as if that would do a lot towards keeping people happy. Again, just a bit of information, maybe a screenshot as well, or a little bit of commentary from one of the developers on their projects.

For myself this would really help to keep me interested in the game if I knew that the new maps were about a month away, or that the next merc is in the final stages of testing. I’m not going to freak out if they have to delay something, if you do, you really need to get your S*** together and realize that these things happen. It isn’t a big deal and ultimately throwing hate and disrespect towards Devs who are pretty darn great doesn’t help anything. Read the comments before this one about Phoenix’s or Phantoms release when the merc was delayed for a COUPLE of days and everyone freaked out.

Well that was kinda rambly but yeah. I really like Dirty Bomb, I just hope we can see lots more updates and content in the future because it really is a great game with lots of potential.

(terminal) #48

[quote=“goodDeposit;27799”]So let me just say before I get into it… I love Dirty Bomb. I love the concept, I love the mechanics, I love the merc system. The only thing I don’t like is how it seems that the devs don’t listen to the community enough and are incredibly slow to change anything for the better. Vassili gets a buff, which was unnecessary in most people’s opinions, when we have been asking for a Phantom rework since the day he came out. We get no information on when a major update is coming, we barely get any information on events other than “teasers”, and it takes months to release mercs that have already been designed, with only a few small reworks needed.

Also, why is this game in open beta? It seems like it’s released, but giving it the beta title entitles the devs to pull this kind of s***. After the “official release”, won’t there still be bugs being patched and mercs released? Smite releases a new class every 2 weeks or so. I understand it’s a different game completely, but that still doesn’t give SD a reason to drag their feet for 3 months between merc releases.

I like the game, and I want it to go in a good direction, with devs that listen to community feedback. I want a fun game that’s balanced in most matches. The simple fact is that it isn’t that game. I will be leaving Dirty Bomb for Overwatch for the most part when it comes out. I really hope SD will learn from their mistakes.

This is simply a rant about Dirty Bombs devs. This is all opinion, an opinion that can easily be changed with a good argument with plenty of reasoning behind it. What about all of you? What’s your opinion on the direction of the game and SD? I would like a civil discussion, don’t just write “you’re wrong, SD is doing a great job”, give reasons for it, try to change my mind.[/quote]

  1. Have you seen TF2? It took 5 years to fix a crit bug on an engineer weapon, that game is still pretty alive.
  2. Phantom doesn’t need a rework, you can play him fine if you know how to shoot a gun.
  3. That’s how you give out information on big updates; through teasers.
  4. Dirty bomb is a first person shooter that revolves a lot around tracking, you can’t really add new character without breaking the balance or repeating what’s already been done.
  5. Overwatch is a game based around abilities, similar to a moba, and that’s why new characters are always being added.
(LifeupOmega) #49

They’re a small team and while their balance isn’t perfect they at least listen to feedback from the more prominent people who play. What they decide to do with that feedback is their own choice. They’re slow to do things because there’s like 10 people working on the game right now. I honestly wouldn’t trust a team that listened to the entire community constantly, because, chances are, most people in the community are casual and have little clue to what actually affects balance and design choices.

We’ll probably see changes to Phantom when they’re not focusing on a major update. Vas had a minor buff that, while not needed, still did nothing to him and took all of 5 seconds to add in, a rework would take considerably more time. Speaking of major updates, we are getting info on it, it’s clearly close to completion when they’ve been leaking stuff on Twitter for nearly two weeks.

Beta is just a fancy word that means its not complete and they’re working on shit, don’t worry about it. The community just likes to run itself into a frothing rage because a small team aren’t working hard enough or some shit. Delays happen, welcome to game design.

Can we all agree to stop with this obsession with balanced matches, especially in PUBLIC, where ANYONE can join the game for better or worse. Play with friends instead, find people of similar skill and play with them, stop expecting a perfect game when you hit that Quick Play button. Put some effort into it. Because until MM or community servers are the main way to get games and everyone plays them, you won’t be getting amazing matches because 90% of the playerbase still don’t understand spawn timers nor do they learn period.

This dumb threat of “I’m leaving for x game” isn’t surprising anyone either, have fun with a completely different game that has zero resemblance to this one, is incredibly slow, and is more in line with a MobA type game than anything.

Splash is doing what they can, they’ve been slow, they’ve made mistakes, every company does this. The game you’re threatening to leave for? By Blizzard? Who’ve cocked up their #1 franchise to a point where their subs are below that of on-release Warcraft within a single expansion? They ain’t exactly perfect either, and the only reason they didn’t scramble to fix their mess is that they have the money spare from other established games. Splash don’t really have that.

The direction of the game could be better, that’s obvious. We all have our own opinions on what could improve it. I for one resent the addition of Sparks and current-iteration Redeye -both of whom affect the game to such a degree that its no longer about the team but about them and shutting them down first and always. Most of the time I’ll leave a game when shotgun users outweigh those who don’t, because they’re a flawed weapon type that promotes the worst habits and ruin the game. There’s a ton of people here who don’t agree with either of those, and it’s their opinion.

I think most people, especially in the shitshow that is Reddit, have way too high an expectation for such a small team in such a small time span. I’ve been frustrated too, I won’t lie, but sometimes you just have to step back and accept that shit happens, delays are a thing, and sometimes it just doesn’t go as you expect it to. By all means voice your concerns, that’s why we have forums across several sites, but pointlessly complaining and then threatening to leave the game is just a childish display that just comes off as whining.

Phantom is shit. Sorry to say that, but he is, he’s a Bushwhacker with no redeeming features. No viable use in a 5v5 format, and is only picked to bad mouth the other team.

(terminal) #50

They’re a small team and while their balance isn’t perfect they at least listen to feedback from the more prominent people who play. What they decide to do with that feedback is their own choice. They’re slow to do things because there’s like 10 people working on the game right now. I honestly wouldn’t trust a team that listened to the entire community constantly, because, chances are, most people in the community are casual and have little clue to what actually affects balance and design choices.

We’ll probably see changes to Phantom when they’re not focusing on a major update. Vas had a minor buff that, while not needed, still did nothing to him and took all of 5 seconds to add in, a rework would take considerably more time. Speaking of major updates, we are getting info on it, it’s clearly close to completion when they’ve been leaking stuff on Twitter for nearly two weeks.

Beta is just a fancy word that means its not complete and they’re working on shit, don’t worry about it. The community just likes to run itself into a frothing rage because a small team aren’t working hard enough or some shit. Delays happen, welcome to game design.

Can we all agree to stop with this obsession with balanced matches, especially in PUBLIC, where ANYONE can join the game for better or worse. Play with friends instead, find people of similar skill and play with them, stop expecting a perfect game when you hit that Quick Play button. Put some effort into it. Because until MM or community servers are the main way to get games and everyone plays them, you won’t be getting amazing matches because 90% of the playerbase still don’t understand spawn timers nor do they learn period.

This dumb threat of “I’m leaving for x game” isn’t surprising anyone either, have fun with a completely different game that has zero resemblance to this one, is incredibly slow, and is more in line with a MobA type game than anything.

Splash is doing what they can, they’ve been slow, they’ve made mistakes, every company does this. The game you’re threatening to leave for? By Blizzard? Who’ve cocked up their #1 franchise to a point where their subs are below that of on-release Warcraft within a single expansion? They ain’t exactly perfect either, and the only reason they didn’t scramble to fix their mess is that they have the money spare from other established games. Splash don’t really have that.

The direction of the game could be better, that’s obvious. We all have our own opinions on what could improve it. I for one resent the addition of Sparks and current-iteration Redeye -both of whom affect the game to such a degree that its no longer about the team but about them and shutting them down first and always. Most of the time I’ll leave a game when shotgun users outweigh those who don’t, because they’re a flawed weapon type that promotes the worst habits and ruin the game. There’s a ton of people here who don’t agree with either of those, and it’s their opinion.

I think most people, especially in the shitshow that is Reddit, have way too high an expectation for such a small team in such a small time span. I’ve been frustrated too, I won’t lie, but sometimes you just have to step back and accept that shit happens, delays are a thing, and sometimes it just doesn’t go as you expect it to. By all means voice your concerns, that’s why we have forums across several sites, but pointlessly complaining and then threatening to leave the game is just a childish display that just comes off as whining.

Phantom is shit. Sorry to say that, but he is, he’s a Bushwhacker with no redeeming features. No viable use in a 5v5 format, and is only picked to bad mouth the other team.
[/quote]
Phantom is a Bushwhacker with a much better combat ability, he can go invisible and peak corners with around the same hit points as a Thunder (It’s not like you need the extra armor though, getting the first shot in already basically grants you a win to the fight – if you can track normally). The 5v5 meta is still changing; the game is still in beta and content is always being updated with new characters and features.
Oh yeah, and this.

(doxjq) #51

I don’t really have a problem with the direction the game is taking in general, but I do have a problem with the way the ranked/competitive scene was turning. I’m sure that will change over time though now that 5 man pre-mades are making their return. It doesn’t just seem to be this game in particular though. I’m seeing dead competitive scenes in many games that have super active player bases. People are just more involved in casual play now, I’m not sure why. We seem to be stuck in this rut where people piss and moan about the lack of competitive scenes in games but at the same time no one wants to play competitive or put in the effort to seriously improve and do nothing to help the said games community grow. The Halo 5 community is the worst culprit for this on this side of the world any way. I’m talking in general here, not just Dirty Bomb. The removal of teams from ranked didn’t help this scenario for Dirty Bomb in particular obviously. Glad to see this making a return though.

The rng system doesn’t bother me as much as it used to tbh, but it does bother me that we’ve had heaps of brilliant ideas brought up on these forums which are win/win for everyone involved (including the game and the devs) where the players would be much happier, get more access to stuff they want, and ultimately more money would be put into the game. I mean people are wanting to throw money at this game and no one seems to be budging with any of these ideas. It’s all well and good to keep the cases, but they are too expensive and not everyone likes gambling, so in return lots of players spend $0 on the game.

I’ve probably spent $150 on the game in total if I add up the starter pack / couple of elite cases purchases / other various bits and pieces on the game. But, I can safely say I would spend a hell of a lot more on the game if there was items we could purchase that were guaranteed. I’m one of these people who wants to throw my money at the game but I’m being given no incentive to at the moment. I do not like gambling, and I regret purchasing elite cases at all. I’m not talking about being able to buy golds or cobalts out right in the store or anything, I understand the reason to keep rarer things like that in place, but there needs to be something. Gun sights / silencers / other various add-ons, merc cosmetic add-ons you can equip like trinkets, whatever, something, anything please. All we have is terrible luck of the draw elite cases which are over priced and it’s getting stale very quickly in this respect.

I do like the fact that we have some incentive to spend out in game credits now on this next event. It’s been bothering me for quite some time that we’ve only ever been able to use in-game credits on mercs and cases, so I’ve often complained that once you have a variety of cobalts for all mercs and own all the mercs, you have nothing to spend your credits on any more.

(derpyMoonMoon) #52

I apologize for coming off as whiny, I am horrible at voicing my opinion correctly. I’m simply saying that for the past few months, we haven’t gotten much new content, and it’s taking far too long (in my opinion) for them to release content that has already been developed in the closed beta and such.

Also in regards to Phantom, he is a recon merc, not a combat merc. He should, by definition, have a team based ability, not just superior melee prowess.

(Naonna) #53

To the above comment, keep in mind phantom won’t be the only merc with a katana, so basically ANY faster merc who gets it will instantly be better than Phantom, assuming their hitbox is even slightly smaller. - Unless Phantom gains reliable utility or effective use.

(Gung-ho) #54

I disagree - introducing new heroes in a MOBA is considerably more difficult as a MOBA is centred around hero abilities and how in combination with other heroes certain strategies become an option.

Moba game play varies primarily through hero diversity. Hell it wouldn’t surprise me if developers intentionally buffed/nerfed heroes to change their relevancy and to open/close certain tactics so that the game ‘meta’ changes.

The diversity in FPS games however has typically stemmed from maps. Maps provide the variation and you practice the map to figure out your tactical options. People will find they are better/worse on certain maps; teams will figure out their strong/weak maps as well as find out how other teams do on certain maps.

Map making does require more work but the current pace is dreadful. I personally believe SD have been distracted by all these small things which has diverted necessary resources away from map making. This is why I think the merc system is a failure and that SD should revert to the classic 5 roles and make “mercs” a cosmetic choice within class roles. Gun diversity has also been a drain and I think merc loadout choice actually diminishes game play quality.

I can’t help but feel in the same amount of time SD released ETQW with double(?) the number of maps which were larger and vehicles were also thrown into the equation.

SD…super distracted.

(BananaSlug) #55

the click bait