The Containment War? More like Ammo Deficiency War!

(Lumi) #41

I just don’t get how all these people don’t know that the best way of getting support XP is to play medic. Just plant an aura station next to a Rhino and you’ll be done after one match…

(Yes) #42

Why? It’s not like ammo packs have a massive cooldown that you have to using them sparingly. One Skyhammer is enough to supply an entire team, so does it really matter if a Skyhammer throws ammo at another Skyhammer? Not to mention, there are loads of low level Skyhammers that don’t throw ammo. I, personally, just throw ammo at whoever is near me.

(FilterDecay) #43

because a skyhammer doesnt need the extra clip and some other schmo does?

(Yes) #44

Clearly you didn’t read what I wrote beyond the first word.

EDIT: Also, please tell me the difference between me giving a Skyhammer ammo, then him giving ammo to another player and Skyhammer giving himself ammo and me giving ammo to another player.

(FilterDecay) #45

skyhammers can give themselves ammo later. look, you are clearly an angry person. Im not going to have a internet argument over skyhammer ammo packs. Sorry.

(iGeeBee) #46

This is pretty much how I feel. I toss out ammo so that the team can keep working toward winning, the XP is just a bonus.

It’s still hit or miss whether everyone shares ammo, heals, or revives, but I think it would help if more people remembered this is an objective based game and that helping your team is the best way to help yourself.

(MarsRover) #47

You do know that a direct hit with ammo pack reduces target’s ability cooldown by 15%?

(FilterDecay) #48

You do know that a direct hit with ammo pack reduces target’s ability cooldown by 15%?[/quote]

i did not know that.

(Monty) #49

[quote=“Lumi;101305”] [A part was removed here.]

Besides, in the long run you should get more support xp due to the fire support addition. You never saw someone complain before about you only getting the health insure after bringing a merc back into fighting capability, I don’t see why we should complain about the fire support xp only happening after that too.[/quote]

But the problem here is that you simply do not get more experience. Alright. Let us assume that you decide to play Execution as a Skyhammer. It is a simple game mode, Game Mode experience comes from winning rounds/planting/long defense, Combat experience comes from the kills you do, and Support experience comes from your ammo packs/‘slow revives.’

Even if you dedicate yourself to handing out the ammo above everything else, your smallest experience total will be Support.

Combat > Game Mode > Support.

That is the result of throwing it at the spawn, tagging along and throwing it to your mates before you open fire yourself. The ‘fire support’ experience amounts you get are non-existent. It is not hundreds like with Sparks revive trains. The sums are in tens and even then you are being very lucky.

Thus, what this change has mean that you only get a third, 1/3, of the Support experience you used to get before the update. Support experience missions used to be relatively easy to complete, and now a full 30 minute game of Stopwatch is not necessarily long enough to get that 2500 points of Support experience.

And I’ve played this game for 406 hours. (Something handy with that steam.) And I have thrown around more ammo than some people with higher level than mine.

So what this complaint is really about, is that you get 1/3 less experience than what you used to.

(Monty) #50

[quote=“3N1GM4;101344”] [A part was removed here, a quote of someone else’s post.]
Except they added an ammo crate next to the defenders spawn.[/quote]
Speaking of that ammo crate, it almost at the defender’s spawn, hence going for it means that the final objective lies undefended. You might just as well go for the one near the stairs and elevator. (And plant some C4 along the way to delay the next attack.)

(Monty) #51

If you play on European servers, you probably played with me, as I stuck with Skyhammer and tried to get as much Support experience as I could.

(Monty) #52

[quote=“Anaconda;102105”] [A part was removed here.]

I wouldn’t drop them all at spawn because most wouldn’t be picked up. [/quote]
You do not drop them, you wait a second, and then throw them at people’s backs. (The packs come with a sticky surface.)

(Monty) #53

I really dislike this ammo experience nerf. It serves no purpose than to reduce the amount of support experience to a third of what it was. It is at the point where helping a player to get up, nets you more experience than throwing ammo to someone without a single bullet left. (Oh look at this, a 50 points of experience.)

It means that if you try to complete a support mission, with a Skyhammer for example, even if you dedicate yourself for getting support experience, you are unlikely to finish the 2,5k mission in one game of Stopwatch. Something that I can do with all other experience based missions, from 10k Combat Experience to 7,5k Game Mode. (Although with that 10K combat, it really helps if you are playing against newbies.) The experience of getting Support experience has become agonizing.

And anyhow, when I first skimmed through the ‘Ammo Deficiency War’ update notes, I kind of thought of buying that ten CW case pack for that one random extra CW loadout. (Even when it was more than likely to be just unusable rubbish with my luck.) But I did try out the game before I did, and this experience change just burned out most of my goodwill towards this game.

I still play, the game is fun, but not really the fork out my money kind of fun.

(Lumi) #54

@Monty

You’re using specifically the mode where you already get least xp from, so I don’t see your point. Keep providing ammo in Objective mode and Stopwatch and you’ll be fine. Execution isn’t meant for making xp.

(Monty) #55

[quote=“Lumi;103244”]@Monty

You’re using specifically the mode where you already get least xp from, so I don’t see your point. Keep providing ammo in Objective mode and Stopwatch and you’ll be fine. Execution isn’t meant for making xp.[/quote]
Execution was used as an example because it is a very simple mode to play. One where you pretty much just run and gun. Therefore game mode experience is practically static if you do not play as an engineer, and if you got around average aim, then it is not that difficult to collect more Combat than Game Mode experience. Thus it works very well to show how non-existent the ‘Fire Support’ experience is.

And since you seem to suffer from a case selective reading/understanding. I repeat. You cannot complete a 2.5k SUPPORT mission as a Skyhammer in a 30 minute long game of STOPWATCH. Even if you try to scrounge out every single point of experience you can with your ammo packs. I used to be able get that 2.5k in a very short game of Objective.

In short, you only get a third of the experience you used to be able to get. It is not fine in Execution, Objective, or Stopwatch. Trust me, I’ve played all modes extensively. And the over all experience is just rubbish, like grinding through waist deep in sludge.

Thus keeping your entire team supplied with ammo nets you practically no experience points at all. So what is the incentive to do it? What encourages that newbie to throw out ammo to his team-mates instead of just himself? That 20-40 points of experience is a non-existent amount. Not to mention that requiring that the ammo is thrown at the starts of gun fights for extra experience is just plain stupid. It doesn’t matter when you get your extra ammo, it only matters if you get it in the first place.

And lets face it, in a random pub or a game of competitive you might just as well sing: ‘Trolololololololololoo’ and run around revive-training everything that doesn’t move as Sparks. Last time I did that, 8k experience in just seven minutes, and my teammates were forced to hit ‘k’ just to get some more ammo after finally growing tired of hitting ‘v-2-2’ again and again. (It was yesterday.)

Thus: 10 points of experience is too little for one clip. It used to be 30 points of experience per clip and things were just fine. So why not go back to the 30 points of experience per clip? Or at least bump it to 20 points of experience per clip, and keep the non-existent Fire Support experience on top?

(LCTR) #56

I also thought that reducing the XP given for dispensing ammo was a strange move.

I like the idea - adapting the Health Insurance idea for ammo support XP - but the reduction in overall ammo to be found seems quite stark.

I’m for keeping the new system and buffiing the default ammo & bonus xp by 50%.

(Lumi) #57

@Monty

Now guess what: Support XP missions are supposed to be done primarily with medics. The fact that you and others could do it without ever touching a medic is why the devs changed the mechanics. Missions are there to take people out of their comfort zone and if you insist on doing support missions with offensive mercs then too bad for you.

I’ve never done support missions only with bullets before and providing xp is not their primary function, it’s providing allies with bullets. I’m just going to side with all the other people who think your just a selfish ammo provider who now doesn’t do it out of spite. You need to see the greater good and the help it’ll provide you team, not the xp you’ll get from it.

(Lumi) #58

[quote=“LCTR;103413”]I also thought that reducing the XP given for dispensing ammo was a strange move.

I like the idea - adapting the Health Insurance idea for ammo support XP - but the reduction in overall ammo to be found seems quite stark.

I’m for keeping the new system and buffiing the default ammo & bonus xp by 50%.[/quote]

I disagree, there is plenty of ammo to go by and where there isn’t it doesn’t reflect a consequence of the change. Many games previous to the update were ammo deficient and then everyone blamed the lack of knowledge of newcomers. It’s still the same reason, but people want to imagine it’s somehow related…

(PeneTraitor) #59

Who runs out of ammo in execution?

(Monty) #60

[quote=“Lumi;103414”]@Monty

Now guess what: Support XP missions are supposed to be done primarily with medics. The fact that you and others could do it without ever touching a medic is why the devs changed the mechanics. Missions are there to take people out of their comfort zone and if you insist on doing support missions with offensive mercs then too bad for you. [/quote]
You got a lot of forums posts, but I am not sure that actually correlates to any in game experience with Dirty Bomb. The most offensive mercenaries in this game, are the medics. Sawbones staying alive thanks to his healing kits, dashing back and forth corners all the way to the ammo crate for more ammo. Phoenix comes with his self revive, and that front line healing ability. Sparks is equipped with the best sniper rifle, railgun, ‘revive tool’ in the game. Even Aura is formidable when camping by her healing station.

So, what are you actually complaining about here? The missions are called “Waterboy” for crying out loud, not ‘Doctor-doctor, heal thyself.’ Thus from purely point of view of semantics, medics should have harder time with the support missions, as they are not actually handing out ammo like a ‘waterboy’ would. (And lets not forget how everyone refers to Skyhammer, Arty, Kira, Stoker as ‘FIRE SUPPORT.’)

And do tell me how it is going to help give people ammo, if completing a support mission in any timely fashion requires you to switch to Sparks? Who is going to hand out the ammo then? Who is giving out ammo if the dedicated ‘Support’ player who usually plays with Skyhammer, Arty, Kira, or as of recently, Stoker is running around as Sparks reviving people? Honestly, the revive badges are so easy to get… not to mention the hundreds of support experience points you get per shot of that best sniper rifle, railgun, ‘revive tool.’

Now, you can see me as anything you want, but the fact is that you are not really presenting any sensible arguments of your own. You just don’t like something. That is your argument. You do not like something.

And speaking of greater good. How about we reduce all ‘healing’ related support experience source to a third of what they currently are?

(Instead of 100 for reviving someone back to full health, you get 33 points of experience.)

(Instead of 80 for healing 80 hit points, you get 26 points of experience.)

(Instead of 250 for reviving that 1337 player, you get 83 points of experience.)

(And lets not forget about cutting those revive badge experiences to a third as well, since those are very easy to get.)

So yeah, how would that go teaching about greater good of healing your fellow players? Or do you think that Sawbones would rather just keep the healing kits for himself? Or what of that pinpoint accuracy Sniper Sparks?

The change was bad, poorly designed, and it has no argument to defend it. Please, just get over your own ego.