The Containment War? More like Ammo Deficiency War!

[ostmustis]

So, what are you actually complaining about here? The missions are called “Waterboy” for crying out loud, not ‘Doctor-doctor, heal thyself.’ Thus from purely point of view of semantics, medics should have harder time with the support missions, as they are not actually handing out ammo like a ‘waterboy’ would. (And lets not forget how everyone refers to Skyhammer, Arty, Kira, Stoker as ‘FIRE SUPPORT.’)

the change was good but I agree, change the name to field ops so we can put your worries at a rest.

[Lumi]

@Monty

All I read when I’m reading your last post is: spite, spite - bla bla - medics = combat, bla bla - spite, spite and more spite - bla bla…

Seriously, your post is so filled of random nonsense that I don’t feel like telling you what’s what on every single thing as I’ve done it so many times before.

So briefly here is:

-I have 366h on the game, started playing during closed beta, own all mercs, a.k.a. I know my shit. Now you seem to not know anything as you insist on shying away from medics.

-“Medics are the most offensive mercs in game”, you say. “What have you been smoking?”, I reply. Medics are medics, they hold their ground and good players can play them very well. But any player kicking ass with a medic will do the double of damage on the other team with a Fragger, Rhino, Nader, Skyhammer, etc… In the end a medic has only self sustenance if he/she manages to handle her guns well. But firepower, those come form additional explosive abilities. I’m sorry to tell you, but with that single sentence, you discredited yourself in front of the entire community.

-Waterboy has no connotation of exclusivity with ammo: thefreedictionary.com/water+boy
Hence it applies to medi-kits just as well.

-Regarding the “if you don’t provide ammo who does?” thing:
*if you’re playing comp doing missions is ill advised
*if you’re in pubs, someone will provide ammo instead of you, missions are different for each and everyone and people playing fire support are most likely going for combat xp anyway.

-Revive badges are easy to get if you’re chain reviving some poor soul stuck in a line of fire while you keep reviving them. Getting “the doctor” badge is not for everyone. Also, if they are as easy to get as you say, then why piss on support xp provided by medics, especially when even according to you they are the best offensively as well? You sir make no sense at all.

-Reducing xp provided by healing is your spiteful idea at balancing both support xp sources, yet the only one who got balanced with this update is bullet packs. Health packs only provide 10xp when dropped. Ammo packs now do the same. You still get higher xp for a direct impact and extra for the amount of ammo you refill. On top of that you now also get fire support xp when someone uses your ammo to keep going. I’ve never gotten as much support xp from ammo as now. I’m afraid you’ve got busted as the player who dropped the ammo packs just for xp. Now to get the extra xp you actually need to think who to give ammo and not just blindly tossing packs as soon as your cool down allows you.

-Conclusion: I maintain my statement. You’re spiteful that your easy xp from tossing ammo packs randomly, while taking advantage of an offensively effective fire support merc, is gone. You even get lost in your own argumentation and say support xp is easy to get with medics and that they are the best offensively yet you don’t want to play them because you’re the only ammo provider in the world and if you don’t do it nobody will.

I think you need to get over yourself. I’m not the one whining about a minor game change. I can still manage my support xp missions just fine, be it with medic or with a fire support. Hell, I would even manage with other classes, sticking around my teammates, helping up people by hand or using my heart beat sensor on vassili or Red-eye’s infrared. There are plenty of ways to get support xp and the current change reflects a balancing of the ammo packs to the same level and functioning system as health packs. So stop whining and if you can’t adapt just ditch the support xp missions.

[notanimmigrant]

thank you

[Tanker_Ray]

Since healing is much easier, at first I couldn’t understand why they reduced the XPs, but now I know.

I’ve seen two guys in Asia server farming with the Ammo XP, like one guy shooting air, and the other guy supplies, keep saying ‘Oh why are you crying team? we’ve got the highest score!’

I think may be because of this. Because I reported them.

[3N1GM4]

And lets not forget how everyone refers to Skyhammer, Arty, Kira, Stoker as ‘FIRE SUPPORT.’

@Monty I’ll just leave this here:

Fire support is long-range firepower provided to a front-line military unit. Typically, fire support is provided by artillery or close air support (usually directed by a forward observer), and is used to shape the battlefield or, more optimistically, define the battle.

Fire support

[Monty1]

@Monty

@Lumi

All I read when I’m reading your last post is: spite, spite - bla bla - medics = combat, bla bla - spite, spite and more spite - bla bla…

That might be an indication towards dyslexia. There are online tests you could tryout, but I must mention that some of them are considerably more reliable than others.

Seriously, your post is so filled of random nonsense that I don’t feel like telling you what’s what on every single thing as I’ve done it so many times before.

Well, thus far you have not actually addressed much at all of what I have said. You have merely picked up something in the vicinity of what I said, and rambled on yourself. Therefore, I would appreciate if you would not pat your own shoulders for deeds you have not done to begin with.

So briefly here is:

Briefly is a subjective term.

-I have 366h on the game, started playing during closed beta, own all mercs, a.k.a. I know my shit. Now you seem to not know anything as you insist on shying away from medics.

• According to steam, I have now clocked 416 hours on Dirty Bomb. In addition, according to Dirty Bomb’s in game profile during the recorded 313 hours of game play, I have given a total of 962,018 bullets. (Or ammo if you please.) That figure was at 862,000 when the recent patch game out.
• Additionally, I too own all the mercenaries. I have tried out each and everyone of them. (Well, purchasing Stoker is on hold until ‘Ammo Deficiency War’ event passes - but in the long run I will have it too.)
• As for ‘shying away from medics’ - this might surprise you, but people actually have individual preferences. I have even started a thread or two about the favorite squad compositions and possibly even one about the mercenaries individually, and no, people did not list down the same mercenaries. Thus for whatever reasons, players might not want to play as ‘medics.’

-“Medics are the most offensive mercs in game”, you say. “What have you been smoking?”, I reply. Medics are medics, they hold their ground and good players can play them very well. But any player kicking ass with a medic will do the double of damage on the other team with a Fragger, Rhino, Nader, Skyhammer, etc… In the end a medic has only self sustenance if he/she manages to handle her guns well. But firepower, those come form additional explosive abilities. I’m sorry to tell you, but with that single sentence, you discredited yourself in front of the entire community.

• Firstly, might I inquire by what mandate do you consider yourself a representative of the entire community?
• Anyhow, I have qualms repeating; “Medics are the most offensive mercenaries in this game.” The reason being largely due to their self sustenance, which in skilled hands, translates to high amount of kills and low amount of deaths.
• It is true that a Fragger, Rhino, Nader, or even a Skyhammer could reach similar kill-death ratios, but it usually comes with the requirement of having a medic to support them. (Or facing very unskilled opponents)
• And finally, ‘Execution’ could be described as ‘offensive’ game mode as the game play experience is pretty much just a team death match. In my experience, based on the rounds I have played: the preferred mercenary is a medic. (And I do not blame them, the self sustenance grants them the ability to outgun these ‘superior fire power’ mercenaries you listed before.)

[quote=“Lumi;103560”]-Waterboy has no connotation of exclusivity with ammo: thefreedictionary.com/water+boy
Hence it applies to medi-kits just as well. [/quote]

• A Waterboy, a person who brings drinking water to those unable to fetch it, something that is most commonly seen in ‘running competitions.’ However, in a First Person Shooter, shooting is the primary focus of the game. In dirty bomb, you got mercenaries who can give out ammo.
• Now, running competitions do usually have their first aid staff and this game does have its medics. I think they might be called medics in both.
• All in all, your connotation is somewhat strained, at least from the perspective of standard English language.

[quote=“Lumi;103560”]-Regarding the “if you don’t provide ammo who does?” thing:
*if you’re playing comp doing missions is ill advised
*if you’re in pubs, someone will provide ammo instead of you, missions are different for each and everyone and people playing fire support are most likely going for combat xp anyway.[/quote]

• Once again, players have their individual preferences, and there are players who act as the regular ammo givers in the matches they play.
• Additionally, the amount of hours any individual can put in a game varies. For example look at Lumi’s 366 hours since closed beta, and my 416 hours since few months after the start of open beta.
• Now, after the update the easiest way to complete a support mission is to play a medic. (Preferably a Sparks.) There is no way around this fact.
• Therefore, a player that would normally give out ammo is forced to play as a medic in order to complete a ‘Waterboy’ mission.
• A player that normally would have no support mercenaries in his squad, would logically go for a medic so that he can play with his favorite mercenaries as soon as possible.
• Thus I ask once again, who would give out ammo?
• And based on the hours I have spent in game, my answer is: Probably no one. (Beyond ammo crates.)

[Monty1]

-Revive badges are easy to get if you’re chain reviving some poor soul stuck in a line of fire while you keep reviving them. Getting “the doctor” badge is not for everyone. Also, if they are as easy to get as you say, then why piss on support xp provided by medics, especially when even according to you they are the best offensively as well? You sir make no sense at all.

• Getting “the Doctor” badge is especially easy if you play as Sparks. You are not even required to revive the same ‘poor-sod.’ You are only required to avoid the front lines, keep looking at your mini map, and quickly revive your fallen teammates.
• As for my earlier remark about reducing the support experience for medics…
• First: it was made in hopes that it would make you understand what cutting experience down to a third is like.
• Secondly: To point out how ridiculous your argument is. In fact, we could use your previous argument to reduce combat experience to a third of what it was, and spout the exact same gibberish as the reason to do it.

-Reducing xp provided by healing is your spiteful idea at balancing both support xp sources, yet the only one who got balanced with this update is bullet packs. Health packs only provide 10xp when dropped. Ammo packs now do the same. You still get higher xp for a direct impact and extra for the amount of ammo you refill. On top of that you now also get fire support xp when someone uses your ammo to keep going. I’ve never gotten as much support xp from ammo as now. I’m afraid you’ve got busted as the player who dropped the ammo packs just for xp. Now to get the extra xp you actually need to think who to give ammo and not just blindly tossing packs as soon as your cool down allows you.

• How much ammo have you actually given? I mentioned my own figures earlier. But anyhow, let us continue with some corrections to your claims. (100,000~ for me.)

• Before this update, throwing an ammo pack also gave you that 10 experience points for throwing it out, and additional +10 for a direct hit.

• What was changed was the amount of experience given by clip, it used be 30 and now it is just 10.

• As for the addition of ‘Fire Support’ experience of someone using your ammo, it is not based on damage dealt like with ‘Life Insurance’ but rather on the bullets that hit the enemy. Thus this amount you get is never in hundreds, it stays in tens. (Not to mention that current game play is in favor of firing in burst, rather than just spraying and praying.)

• Therefore: amount of experience you get was reduced across the board.

• And as a side notice, all mercenaries at spawn can take one extra clip for both primary and secondary. It is not like with healing kits, which will fly through players at full health. Ammo packs are consumed if a player jumps in the way and they are missing a single bullet. (Once again, everyone is missing bullets by default.)

• Thus considering what you have listed in here, either you have never actually given out ammo, or you are just outright bullshitting.

• Not to mention that what you have said has not changed the fact that in reality: it doesn’t matter when the extra ammo was given, it matters only when it was given.

-Conclusion: I maintain my statement. You’re spiteful that your easy xp from tossing ammo packs randomly, while taking advantage of an offensively effective fire support merc, is gone. You even get lost in your own argumentation and say support xp is easy to get with medics and that they are the best offensively yet you don’t want to play them because you’re the only ammo provider in the world and if you don’t do it nobody will.

• I suppose I do not have to describe in length what I think of the validity of your conclusion.
• It is simply incorrect, and it doesn’t go beyond the level of ad hominem.

I think you need to get over yourself. I’m not the one whining about a minor game change. I can still manage my support xp missions just fine, be it with medic or with a fire support. Hell, I would even manage with other classes, sticking around my teammates, helping up people by hand or using my heart beat sensor on vassili or Red-eye’s infrared. There are plenty of ways to get support xp and the current change reflects a balancing of the ammo packs to the same level and functioning system as health packs. So stop whining and if you can’t adapt just ditch the support xp missions.

• You claim it is a minor game change, but it changed what mercenaries are best suited for completing Support experience missions. Before this change, ‘fire support’ and ‘medics’ were on the same line. Now, ‘medics’ are basically the only realistic choice.

• You also claim that the amounts of experience are roughly equal. You are incorrect.

• When a Sparks revives/heals a player; she gets a maximum of 100 experience points from it, and then the revived player goes on to earn our sparks some 200~ ‘Life Insurance’ experience points. Think about that: 300~ Experience points with a click of a button.

• When a Skyhammer throws an ammo pack: You get 10 for dropping, 10 for direct hit, 10 for every clip, and if you are you very lucky 20~ from ‘Fire Support’ Experience points. The amount of clips is usually two, one for primary and one for secondary. Thus we are looking at a 60~ experience points.

It doesn’t compare. It just doesn’t.

So, once again Lumi, just get over your own ego.

[Lumi]

I can’t be bothered to reply to the exact same shit again. Read my previous message. It applies perfectly to your last reply.

[Monty1]

I can’t be bothered to reply to the exact same shit again. Read my previous message. It applies perfectly to your last reply.

Perhaps you meant:
‘I can’t be bother to reply since I only produce the same shit. So just read my previous message again. My mind is set in stone and void of arguments regardless of what you say.’

Anyhow… Why the ammo change is simply retarded:

The amount of experience you get from one clip of ammo was reduced in favor of ‘Fire Support’ bonus experience. Meaning that in order to get the maximum of amount of Support Experience from your ammo, you need to throw extra ammo during a fight. If you throw it before or after a fight, you get next to no experience from it.

Thus the system is now very similar with how healing and revives work, except for one fundamental difference;

• If a player is healed/revived, they can aggressively fight or complete and objective, which easily nets our medic hundreds of bonus experience points.

• Now, if a player is given more ammo, they can theoretically shoot much longer. However, if they are also at low hit points, it makes more sense for them to hide behind corners/fall back to avoid getting killed by that one stray bullet, which unfortunately translates to a very minimal bonus to our ‘Waterboy.’ (For more specific example, just image a healing station with ammo packs/ammo station dropped next to it: by the time our friendly is healed, several seconds have already passed since the extra ammo was received. And you are kind of lucky to get any bonus.)

Not to mention how this bonus experience with its limitation feels artificial. It makes more sense to give out extra ammo well before any fights, and then to those who survived it. Rather than throw your ammo packs to friendlies and enemies alike when people are actively trailing after your head. The change does not encourage a better game play or teamwork, and considering how this change means that you get a third of the experience you used to get from playing intelligently, it is nothing more than step to turn the game in the direction of pay-to-win.

So once again, either go back to the old system of 30 experience points per clip, or at least bump the amount to 20 from 10, and keep the nonsensical Fire Support bonus experience.

[Monty1]

An update, the ammo given by clips was raised to 15 per clip.

Thus, dedicated ammo throwing now grants marginally more support experience than derping around as Sparks.

Nevertheless, it is a clear improvement. (Though I’d still prefer 20 per clip, or the 30 per clip without Fire Support.)

[Mr-Penguin]

[quote=“Monty;109452”]An update, the ammo given by clips was raised to 15 per clip.

Thus, dedicated ammo throwing now grants marginally more support experience than derping around as Sparks.

Nevertheless, it is a clear improvement. (Though I’d still prefer 20 per clip, or the 30 per clip without Fire Support.)
[/quote]

Eh, ammo still gives less XP than “derping around with Sparks”. 100 XP per full charge revive, vs 15 XP per mag.

[Monty1]

Which is why I said ‘dedicated.’ I tend to be pretty dedicated to throwing out ammo, when I feel like it. (Everything goes out at the spawn, and then at whoever friendly I run into.)

And yes, derping and sperging around as Sparks is still a very easy source of support experience, but if a team has several medics, and they often do, the experience usually goes solely for the best medic.

[Monty1]

And it seems the ammo exp is back to 10 per clip. Sigh. You really are hell bent on driving my wallet away from this game. For few days, things were kind of fun again, and now they are back to that slog.

Sigh.

So here is a handful of special ASCII characters as a form of visual feedback.

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[3N1GM4]

And we still haven’t learned that getting xp is not the reason to toss ammo…

[Captain_Forward]

Yeh, we still need to FEEEEEEEEEEEEED IT.

[Gung-ho]

It’s back to 10xp/clip again? Was playing last night and that was not the case. Also please consider that ammo xp was buffed to 30xp/clip from 10xp/clip a long time ago; personally I think 30xp was too much.

I will raise this question regarding this hilarious support xp mission argument - sure it might be easier for a medic to complete a support xp mission; but is it not easier for a field op to complete a game xp mission? Being the one class viable at completing both support and game xp missions have some sort of penalty in completing them when compared to medics (support) and engineers (game)? Why were there no complaints when damage game xp was halved?

Besides all this the primary reason to give ammo out is so your team can shoot the enemy and win the match which will ultimately earn you the highest score per minute, stroking your ego and epenis. Just suck it up, play Aura for one or two matches to fulfil the support mission and move on;the variety may even be a welcome change.