The case for mod/map support. Let's convince SD why it's a good business decision.

(nailzor) #81

I love Blizzard and all, but this is not their cup of tea!

Team based FPS games are defined by the initial wow factor to draw crowds in, replay ability, team play aspects, public and competitive play, and of course - well balanced maps.

Lets keep this on topic, not mention MMO/RTS and focus on FPS please.

I would love for SD to be able to provide a front end for map development, but it seems that the main hurdle is the UDK engine - I am confident they will prioritize their list of changes to the game first and re-visit this down the road. I would absolutely love to see this :slight_smile:

(tokamak) #82

If you can give a valid reason why the Blizzard marketplace is an invalid comparison then I’m willing to drop it. As of now there simply is no bigger custom community than Blizzard has so clearly they’re doing a few things right.

(Seiniyta) #83

The marketplace for Starcraft II is on hold as they are still figuring out a lot of the details. It might even not appear before the last expansion or even after that (I’m sure it’ll appear, just late like everything Blizzard :stuck_out_tongue: )

and in SC2 the custom map scene is far from lively at the moment due to some stupid restrictions and poor implementation of able to find custom games.

(iwound) #84

tokamak i cant see anywhere where you mention a game,
just Blizzard all the time. so if your referring to startcraft customs, well its easy.

To make a starcraft map takes approximately the time it takes to make a cup of tea.
my cat could make a good starcraft map.
Its like the C&C maps, myself and my mate used to create one then play, create then play. generally with lots of monkeys.

A good DB level by one incredibly sexy map maker could take a year. I could take less but if you want quality. meh!
The games your referring to , its just tiles which you just plop down wherever you want.

its like comparing a one year olds crayon drawing with an artists oil painting.
you cant expect a lot of custom DB.

The people in this thread who say otherwise are people who know nothing about the subject because they have no experience.
but feel they must post in every thread.

mapmakers have said its not going to happen. but some choose to ignore them and rant on. if You want to talk custom then make it positive and creative rather than a mantra.

(Seiniyta) #85

[QUOTE=iwound;426089]tokamak i cant see anywhere where you mention a game, just Blizzard all the time. so if your referring to startcraft customs, well its easy.
to make a starcraft map takes approximately the time it takes to make a cup of tea.
my cat could make a good starcraft map. its like the C&C maps, myself and my mate used to create one then play, create then play. generally with lots of monkeys.
a good DB level by one incredibly sexy map maker could take a year. I could take less but if you want quality. meh!
the games your refering to , its just tiles which you just plop down wherever you want.
its like comparing a one year olds crayon drawing with an artists oil painting.
you cant expect a lot of custom DB.
the people in this thread who say otherwise are people who know nothing about the subject because they have no experience.
but feel they must post in every thread.

mapmakers have said its not going to happen. but some choose to ignore them and rant on. if You want to talk custom then make it positive and creative rather than a mantra.[/QUOTE]

Do not underestimate how hard it is to make a proper Starcraft 2 map, Blizzard itself struggles with it, a lot of mapmakers struggle with producing a well balanced map. For mods and stuff it’s a lot easier…somewhat. If you want to stand out you still work on mods for months. It’s quite insulting actually to pretend it’s as easy as a cup of tea.

And a good DB map can be produced in a few months if it uses assets of DB. If the assets are made of scratch then yes it can take a long time.

(tokamak) #86

SC custom games aren’t just maps, they’re completely unique games in and of themselves.

The Unreal Engine is also a bliss to work with compared to Radiant.

(iwound) #87

[QUOTE=Seiniyta;426091] If you want to stand out you still work on mods for months. It’s quite insulting actually to pretend it’s as easy as a cup of tea.

And a good DB map can be produced in a few months if it uses assets of DB. If the assets are made of scratch then yes it can take a long time.[/QUOTE]

then why not be honest Seiniyata and compare a good DB level and a good SC level
or better still 2 basic 1s. you used the word good but you say a few months. This isnt true and i gave a list of examples early.
You could spend a lot of time on a SC level no doubt. But ignoring my main point which i repeated several times now. it takes much longer to make fps levels.
add in entities for players objectives 1000’s lights and remember in an fps a map maker will create 90% of it from scratch rather than prefabs or premade tiles.
the terrain in free spirit city i hand painted after the computer rendered the main areas. to give more detail and i made it concurrently with the brush work.
the roads, buildings even new objectives from scratch.
Also how many play SC, 3million plus. of course your going to get a good amount of customs from that sized playerbase.
the two games are chalk and cheese. Even Countersrtike isnt a good comparision because your just building the level.
SD games have so many things going on that you have to cater for from within the level. ie create places for all the classes to have uses all over a level.
in QW it was a total minefield with vehicle spawns so at least they are gone.

can you give me some examples from ones youve made?

(tokamak) #88

Wait, what precisely is the difference between a CS and DB map? I understand the difference between CS and ETQW but CS and DB? Really?

(SockDog) #89

Either stick to the thread topic or take it elsewhere. If you want to take about another game’s system then do so and give relevance to the topic. The purpose of this thread is to discuss why it’s a good idea for SD to make one and how that can work in their and our favour.

(Donnovan) #90

I also feel that a strange request, something Alice in Wonder Mistical Maryland “Why the heck we created this Forum?” line by SD.

Would preffer they put their effort in new maps from then selfs.

Those kind of things is better to be talked in private messages. Your passion for my health state is not needed to became public. Thankyou.

(Bloodbite) #91

Rage mod tools are out now… not that I’m drawing parallels because of the ole iD connection BUT… it is a content builder primarily intended for using 90% of ingame content for the building of new maps/areas/missions that fit within the Rage universe. At least that’s what the propaganda reads as to me… I’m going to give it a bit of a twiddle just so I know what it’s like/about… wouldn’t hurt for others to do the same as you can be sure this will be integrated with the Steam Workshop.

And being F2P that is something we should all consider for any future mod/SDK support… if you want to make a fully fledged mod, there’s nothing stopping you/people from making a game from scratch, almost all the major engine SDKs are free these days. Full unlimited mod capabilities made sense for retail titles and flagship engine tech-demo games, but in some ways I’m starting to see this as being an aspect of “too much” being given away under a F2P model.

If it does eventually come out, there could be an approval system that sets approval standards/restrictions that could actually help focus user content on what this game itself is all about… tactical maps that require a superior level of thinking and application to other FPS’s (and let’s face it, we’re all brilliant for preferring this type of FPS multiplay).

I can see myself looking forward to the possibility of someone putting together a nostalgic remake of W:ET… but a proper map and flow-of-mechanics remake that can be explained away as radiation sickness and residual EMP fallout (if there is even such a thing), not a DB-departing WW2 reskin.

That could also encourage community involvement in developing some sort of DB lore that the more hardcore fans/followers can get into… a subtle sub-marketing ploy that gives us another, and completely optional, level of involvement, attachment and title immersion???