The case for mod/map support. Let's convince SD why it's a good business decision.

(DarkangelUK) #21

I’m sure someone mentioned it already, but what about the QL style of premium rental for a monthly fee? Basic f2p version, decent amount of maps, micro transactions for cosmetics (I know that’s not in QL), limited amount of game types… then the prem version with access to all maps, game modes, new maps, server spawning etc + MS cosmetics.

(tokamak) #22

Regardless it’s worth looking at the question whether or not you can monetise custom content without making it bite your own content. Especially on a F2P this seems crucial.

Blizzard can get away with their arcade market because they’re selling a full retail product. They’re now experimenting with paid DLC like their official DOTA game but I suspect they mostly intend to use it to kickstart the system and prompt people to make that coveted first transaction. Just to lower the barriers.

In the end Blizzard wants what Valve has with TF2. TF2 is a huge success and sustains itself through custom content, as far as I’ve read.

Still, there’s enough F2P games that chose to go without it and with good reason. Quality control is and remains a problem. Blizzard solves this by letting the community rate the custom content. However, they can only get away with this because, again, they strictly keep custom and official content separate with the exception of throwing a small project into the custom community now and then.

Valve solves this with simply having a huge supply of custom stuff so they can afford to be picky. There’s some real talent there and they can pick the absolute cream of the crop with ease.

So in both scenarios there’s some unique factors that cant be easily replicated in a starting game.

So in conclusion, I see a lively and profitable custom community as a luxury. A pay-off having a successful game or franchise that can stand the test of time. And yes, it takes full support from the start to get that going BUT, and it’s a huge BUT, this seems to be only something retail games can afford. Let’s not forget that TF2 wasn’t a F2P game for a very long time.

I could see myself do that but then again, I may be the wrong fanboy to ask such a question.

(Ashog) #23

Yeah. So let’s not have fun then.

Lets have only half of the fun with the main game and stop playing it after half a year. Like Brink.

(iwound) #24

so what some people here are saying is that the people who create the maps should pay sd so this can happen and that
players get free maps. lmfao
trying to make money out of custom maps for this specific game is a fail because there just wont be a huge amount of people playing to make enough money to even pay for locki to service his cars never mind so called business sense.
it would have to be done on a voluntary basis by people who do it for the love of it and not money.
sd have gained a lot of respect over the years and maybe a few pound notes along the way.
they could probably make more money by ignoring the players wishes.
but then some do it cos they want to and some for the money.

if theres a way im sure sd will do it. if not then thats life.

(SockDog) #25

[QUOTE=iwound;411252]so what some people here are saying is that the people who create the maps should pay sd so this can happen and that
players get free maps. lmfao
trying to make money out of custom maps for this specific game is a fail because there just wont be a huge amount of people playing to make enough money to even pay for locki to service his cars never mind so called business sense.
it would have to be done on a voluntary basis by people who do it for the love of it and not money.
sd have gained a lot of respect over the years and maybe a few pound notes along the way.
they could probably make more money by ignoring the players wishes.
but then some do it cos they want to and some for the money.

if theres a way im sure sd will do it. if not then thats life.[/QUOTE]

Why not contribute some ideas of your own that may help justify SD spending their money on making an SDK. You’re not contributing anything by poking holes in what is pretty much a thread about throwing whatever ideas come to mind.

(iwound) #26

i have an opinion. if you have an issue with that tough ****.

(SockDog) #27

I asked in the first post and my reply to keep the thread focused on ideas and specifically not to descend into picking holes and ****ting on stuff. I wanted this to be a positive thread to promote and share ideas with SD, and not get bogged down in analysis or petty flaming.

(tokamak) #28

It’s really hard to derive any kind of point out of your post V. Are you against monetising custom content because the framework can’t be made profitable?

(BioSnark) #29

That’s a tough case to make. I’m not convinced making an SDK would be anything but a loss of money in a F2P game.

Map wise, the simplest case to make would be Ender’s, to add content since maps are generally free to maintain a unified player base. If the game has grind currency linked to objectives, I see a couple options:

[ol]
[li]Taking off from DA’s suggestion, it may need a Ranked (free, QA approved) versus Unranked system in a way ET:QW did not as custom maps can compromise the business model. Unranked custom maps get a 1-5 star rating system that would be voted on post-match. High rated maps over a threshhold number of votes get submitted for QA testing to possibly make Ranked.[/li][li]Alternatively, community map objectives simply wouldn’t count toward f2p currency. Then add a vanilla filter in the server browser.[/li][/ol]
Neither of these make money, just make content for the business model to operate on. Mods, however, could simply supplant a f2p business model. That’s harder to address.

How did that CS+minecraft game work? How will shootmania work? Someone steal those ideas, please :slight_smile:

(SockDog) #30

Not sure of who this was directed to but I had some other thoughts to put down anyway and a repeat of the goal doesn’t hurt.

SD needs a financial incentive to commit the money to make an SDK. That may be as simple as has been suggested in that more content (lets say maps) means a happier and more plentiful playerbase and so more potential customers to pay for items etc. This does seem to be a big risk though. What I’d hope people here would do, especially those who’ve modded/mapped before is offer their opinion on why it not only would be a good thing to have an SDK but also what financial benefit that would bring SD.

One thing I just thought of is a kickstarter. What if SD was to offer some in-game items (minimal cost to SD) as rewards for a kickstarter, the proceeds of which would fund an SDK. This could cover some or all of the SDK development cost (such as hiring additional people to do it alongside the game development) and also serve as a validation that there is a demand for it.

Likewise maybe they could just do a similar thing in game. Buy SDK Support Pack for $5. Get X weapon mods, X exclusive cosmetic items etc and also fund the development of the SDK.

(tokamak) #31

It’s both the resources and a willing as well as capable community to make the content. All the conditions need to apply before the SDK becomes worthwhile.

Frankly right now the wish for custom content seems to be more sentimental and nostalgic in nature than really an objective plan to add all-round value to the game.

(stealth6) #32

kickstarter for SDK kit - not sure how popular that would be.

(.Chris.) #33

With UDK already out there would it be that difficult to release a gamepack of sorts for use with UDK? I don’t know unreal at all so excuse me if that sounds silly.

(Locki) #34

I’m now convinced we need to release an SDK. Let me see if we can find a way to speed it up.

It’s great to have user generated content (just for fun), but it’s also important to provide the tools for the next influx of game developers to learn on.

(amazinglarry) #35

I wish I had something more to contribute, but this is seriously awesome news! Perfect example of why I’ve stuck around here so long! Now, if only they baked delicious chocolate chip cookies too…

(stealth6) #36

Surprised to read that, I was just saying on irc today:
“I think the SDK isn’t possible, but SD wants us to figure that out on our own”

(SockDog) #37

[QUOTE=Locki;411320]I’m now convinced we need to release an SDK. Let me see if we can find a way to speed it up.

It’s great to have user generated content (just for fun), but it’s also important to provide the tools for the next influx of game developers to learn on.[/QUOTE]

I won’t hold you to it but I’m really happy you feel that way and hope it becomes a reality. I know there are many people who’ll spend a lot of time turning out not just maps but mods that could keep DB going for a long time.

(shirosae) #38

I posted about this in the other thread, but felt I should put something here because I’ve been mulling it over for a few days.

I take it back about making the SDK tools be behind a subscription. Game should be free entry on all sides. I think that DB as a gaming platform is a really neat idea, and that could be tied into mapping too. Given that SD is going to be around to do stuff on the game for a while now, they could get all sorts of community events and competitions for mapping. There’s no reason they couldn’t take a look around the custom maps, and set up some special servers running those maps they thought were best as part of a community event. Give players some kind of credit to their accounts for joining in, and give the mappers access to the balance data from the servers, and offer advice/help from SD.

You could have another Counter-Strike scenario coming out of this, with an existing community having access to all sorts of freaky new gaming ideas, and new freaky gaming ideas people having an audience right there. This could be amazing.

(Ashog) #39

[QUOTE=Locki;411320]I’m now convinced we need to release an SDK. Let me see if we can find a way to speed it up.

It’s great to have user generated content (just for fun), but it’s also important to provide the tools for the next influx of game developers to learn on.[/QUOTE]

Very pleased to read this. Now I am sure the game has not only Potential (a-la Brink) but also Future.

(stealth6) #40

Hey we’re only 2 weeks in, let’s not get ahead of ourselves.