The Biggest Rage Thread So Far...

(tokamak) #21

Making a good map is more involving than merely blocking out some geometry and slapping textures on it.

I don’t like the earlier maps either but they serve their purpose as a placeholder to test the rest of the game in just fine.

(Glottis-3D) #22

[QUOTE=Smooth;510610]This post does highlight many of what we feel are the biggest design concerns with the game.

Some points I’d like to personally pick out as things we’re intending to address are:

[ul]
[li]Dirty Bomb’s over-reliance on evasion-spam and tracking-aim – it’s nice to have but too prevalent[/li][li]The game being generally very stressful to play for prolonged periods[/li][li]Objective vs Stopwatch map balance and the systems behind them[/li][/ul]

We’ll be working towards solving these as we go forward. I can’t really give a time-frame on these as they’re not exactly quantifiable and we’re unlikely to be sharing exact details until we’re more happy with the results :)[/QUOTE]

you did through away the most fun-bringing elements
-class-objects, where the whole team cared for obj-guy. and the enemy team couldnt care less about their lives, when trying to kill the arming/disarming/hacking person.
-properly working foward spawns, that provide a logical flow and logical and intuitive fronlimes-gameplay.

and did not introduce something in meta play instead.
the only reasonable way to make fun is to make a good carriable objects. because they as well make adrenaline excitement for both teams.

but any other type of class-less object (no matter capturezone or not capture zone) does not bring anything fun into the game of that caliber.

(Kl3ppy) #23

[QUOTE=tokamak;510650]Making a good map is more involving than merely blocking out some geometry and slapping textures on it.

I don’t like the earlier maps either but they serve their purpose as a placeholder to test the rest of the game in just fine.[/QUOTE]

Sure is there more involved, but it is easier to change something, for example move spawns, open/close ways, adjust to gameplay changes etc. Currently the maps dont fit the gameplay because when they were build the gameplay was not the same as now. Now they have to adjust the maps to the gameplay but at the same time, the gameplay keeps on changing.

(tokamak) #24

Yes, that’s why the actual implementation isn’t even the most work. You can’t balance a game every single week. The gameplay first has to settle and players need to get acquainted with the new changes before their feedback means anything.

(BomBaKlaK) #25

[QUOTE=Smooth;510621]We know, Bomba, you post about it in practically every thread :stuck_out_tongue:

Unfortunately maps are the element that takes longest to change and we’re not going to go and put in a tonne of work with them (again) until we’re happier with the current gameplay and how it works within a blockout map.

We realise that it’s frustrating right now, but we need to be focussing on the long-term rather than short.[/QUOTE]

So what the plan ? next real map(s) update in 6 months ?
Did you plan to rework old maps for real ? or just some little adjustments ?
Some more maps or new obj style in the pipe ?
Travel time to objective adjustments ?
Did you get rid of capture zone for SW and Obj mode ?
About map scale ? any plan ?
More spawn exit ? More space ?

Lot of questions not really an answer, like I said before I can wait but feed me with informations !
Cause i’m on the edge of the cliff ready to leave for good.

Revolution !!! :stroggflag:

(Humate) #26

I think its pretty tame to be honest --plenty of weapons reward alternative aimstyles. I think you guys have done a good job in that department. Although if I’m to give you a balanced, unbiased perspective I do think that those alternative aimstyles are far more demanding, at least in lower skill brackets.

(spookify) #27

I will need to try this when I get home haha!!! My work computer and wireless mouse arent cutting it!!! Amazing the difference the gear can make!!

(rookie1) #28

[QUOTE=Smooth;510621]We know, Bomba, you post about it in practically every thread :stuck_out_tongue:

Unfortunately maps are the element that takes longest to change and we’re not going to go and put in a tonne of work with them (again) until we’re happier with the current gameplay and how it works within a blockout map.

We realise that it’s frustrating right now, but we need to be focussing on the long-term rather than short.[/QUOTE]

One Thing for sure I will remember from this DB xperience is Bomba’s posts :smiley: (Key words: Corridor ,small ,clauspho maps,Bored…) :smiley:

#29

Just browsed the SD forum and found this 12-page Brink thread. The info there reminds me of things I read in DB closed beta forum http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/31670-why-does-BRINK-have-so-much-haters

(tokamak) #30

I don’t see much similarity to be honest. In truth it seems that thread is mostly made up of completely opposite complaints.

(potty200) #31

My name made it into the OP so I win a gold star!

I will just put down that I would prefer to go back to the way alpha game play and the community was. It was easier to control play times and the feedback generated good debates whereas now it seems there is just idea after idea after suggestion and going around in circles again! Give us some new exciting blockout maps to test! Throw in bigger guns (and grenades!) I would like to point out that I am happier with the game right now then what I was 6 months ago. But on the flip side I would prefer the game play from 12 months ago.

Keep throwing ideas and information at the community to provoke discussion. I am guilty of derailing topics but at least you get the idea of what I do not like right now! (Oh hello overpowered shotguns that ruin the game!)

(Erkin31) #32

The direction taken is disappointing.
I think the best decision that Splash Damage should have taken is to create a copy of Enemy Territory.

Like for CS GO. Valve doesn’t try to innovate, it’s CS with a better shape and the good tools to make live the game (matchmaking, workshop/items customization, spectator mode, etc.)
Epic seems to do the same things with UT4.

When I backed the game, I saw a video with a with the layout of Goldrush, the class system of ET, etc. I really thought that SplashDamage could give to us an “Enemy Territory GO”, a next gen ET with the good tools.

After that, I discovered that DB was far away from ET, so I hoped that SD could give to us an “Enemy Territory Ascend”. Like Tribes Ascend, a different game but with the core elements of the gameplay which offer a lot of complexity and fun.
The core elements are not all there (class system ? Straff jump ? etc.) or limited (Maps/objectives/multiple spawns ? Spread ? No iron sight ? etc.)

Now the problem for SplashDamage is that I don’t know who will play to the game.
I don’t think that the fan of old school FPS (ET/ETQW, Quake, UT, etc.) will play a lot to DB, which don’t offers the same level of skill/fun.
And I don’t think that the fans of next gen FPS (BF, COD, Crysis, etc.) will play a lot to DB, because it’s too different, they want things like weapons with big recoil/spread and low ttk.

(BomBaKlaK) #33

I like the speed and hip gameplay
I like the idea of abilities and mercs,
I like the graphic design,
I like obj game even if 90% of the obj are actually broken,
I like team play when it’s possible,
I like the dev effort to put a maximum of graphics options in the menu (and I hope some limits in cfg after the perf update for sure),
I like the UI and minimal HUD design,
and I like a lot of things in this game.

But clearly yes, that’s a huge desapointment since the half cut surgery they made to the maps, global design wasn’t better but some of the best part, maybe the only playable part like the camden carrying obj just disapear … I’m raging since this date …
I understand the will behind this choice, but for me this is THE fail in the bunch of SD past month choices.

PS : Give us some nades ! Actually to restrictive, some merc only, and nade is in some regard “the ultimate” everyone is talking to … I miss nades … ;(

(onYn) #34

Well, I am not too sure since I am not a game developer but from a pure economical aspect, and how you would usually approach a product you are going to invent/develop, this whole thing here is a simple disaster. Maybe it´s always this chaotic when developing a game… but many decisions I have seen being made from the beginning as well as during the development, were just showing complete absence of any idea of a game concept behind that is allowing everything to fit together smoothly. The only drive I saw, and the only reasonable “explanation” (for many of the responses to certain feedback and actions as well) that no one of course admitted, was to make money. As someone who studies economics you don´t need to tell me how important that is, but when creating art like music, movies or even a game for that matter you want to create something that satisfies people and gives them joy… not to take there money. But in my eyes there simply never was the plan to make a good game that people are going to enjoy, but rather to make a game that people pay us money for by taking the save route and hoping to make something no one dislikes but probably never is going to “really” like as welll… How many times did we hear people saying “yeah this came is cool” that a week later disapeared and never came back again?

Honestly, I am probably not even able to tell if this still is the case or not, since my senses are mostly covered by disappointment. But not because things didn´t work the way I would like them to be, but because of how little sense many things make for me right now. If I just look around the feedback that is still going around, it just underlines my thought, of how little of a game concept there is being existent when 1 of 3 threads pretty much suggests an entire genre swap… But anyways, I am still hoping this to turn out well in the end, and hope to be enjoying it as well, however it may turn out in the end :). So far I am going back to my Mario Kart :smiley:

(onYn) #35

Well, I am not too sure since I am not a game developer but from a pure economical aspect, and how you would usually approach a product you are going to invent/develop, this whole thing here is a simple disaster. Maybe it´s always this chaotic when developing a game… but many decisions I have seen being made from the beginning as well as during the development, were just showing complete absence of any idea of a game concept behind that is allowing everything to fit together smoothly. The only drive I saw, and the only reasonable “explanation” (for many of the responses to certain feedback and actions as well) that no one of course admitted, was to make money. As someone who studies economics you don´t need to tell me how important that is, but when creating art like music, movies or even a game for that matter you want to create something that satisfies people and gives them joy… not to take there money. But in my eyes there simply never was the plan to make a good game that people are going to enjoy, but rather to make a game that people pay us money for by taking the save route and hoping to make something no one dislikes but probably never is going to “really” like as welll… How many times did we hear people saying “yeah this game is cool” that a week later disapeared and never came back again?

Honestly, I am probably not even able to tell if this still is the case or not, since my senses are mostly covered by disappointment. But not because things didn´t work the way I would like them to be, but because of how little sense many things make for me right now. If I just look around the feedback that is still going around, it just underlines my thought, of how little of a game concept there is being existent when 1 of 3 threads pretty much suggests an entire genre swap… But anyways, I am still hoping this to turn out well in the end, and hope to be enjoying it as well, however it may turn out :). So far I am going back to my Mario Kart, since the biggest disappointment there is to only get a single banana to throw around :smiley:

(Runeforce) #36

F u c k it! Let’s go bowling. :slight_smile:

(attack) #37

about level design .maybe the ask for bigger maps (or more routes) are kind of the opposite we need. maybe we should consider that maps in et werent rly big.if i look back to supply first stage as example. it had clear routes and a small area and is still one of the most played maps.maybe the gametype works not that well on too big or complex maps. (you have to spread your defense forces way too much)

the most fun area was the old construction obj on waterloo. a small area too hold and group up, less chaotic and impossible to try alone.(i still ask myself why on earth SD deleted this one!?)

(warbie) #38

Exactly! The maps that worked best in ET and RTCW were simple, relatively small, with clear frontlines and enough open space for teams to move through them. They didn’t have multiple routes with people shooting at you from every angle and from different heights. They allowed for teams to setup defensive positions that could cover all angles without having to split up. That’s why there was always a medic, field ops, engineer etc around when you needed them. It’s basic stuff.

(spookify) #39

The current maps have potential however DOME is doommmmmed!

Seems very large with many paths… 6 v 6 SW if the attackers work together the first OBJ can be over in what 50 seconds? 2 obj’s really… what is the CS?

May people want ET and many people dont… Most of us here are here because we love SD and we love ET and games like it. I still dont understand why SD is so scared of Rambo medics… Their guns are fairly weak compared to stocker but their abilities just flat out blow…

I have said it 1 million times one shot stop healing is ridicules… At least heal to 25% per pack after being shot. That will at least give that person 1 or possible 2 more hits that might turn the battle… I like the direct hit but with the speed of players and how fast they accelerate good luck… Plus the speed of switching guns and to packs is slow along with throw speed. You are in a massive first fight and your brain is telling you to press these next 3 buttons asap to win the current battle or to save a teammate however the game doesnt respond as fast as you can think!!!

(BomBaKlaK) #40

Worked for comp not for pub, and you need both.
That’s why we need bigger maps in Objective mode made for 8v8, and maybe a scale around the actual one (or a bit bigger) for SW and match. Same layout with restricted routes (like they did in Rush / squad rush for BF3) both modes becoming really unique.