The Biggest Issue With Dirty Bomb...


(PixelTwitch) #1

Well, the time has finally come. I will be stepping back from Dirty Bomb in terms of planning to focus it on YouTube and I will be looking for a new game. The reason why I decided to come over to Dirty Bomb in the first place was its potential for content creation based off what was said during the early marketing and at events like PAX. I believed that the game was going to be complex enough to create lots of content regularly for, however I no longer feel that’s the case. Please understand that this is not supposed to be insulting, we have had many great games in the past that lack the ability to create decent content for. Saying that, be careful as even now the marketing hype being released on the SD Blog is missing the mark wildly. I hope this is due to communicating your future goals and not down to a basic misunderstanding of what you have actually created.

Anyway, the big issue I have… The one aspect that I honestly feel has gimped the potential for depth and mastery is… Dirty Bomb should have been designed from the ground up with Mercs that have multiple abilities and the game modes should have run on a draft mode system. Having multiple Mercs per map/round with limited abilities promote switching Mercs and always having the best possible combo at any given point of a map. This limits choice, depth and meta game as it results in both attackers and defenders always being able to have the best Mercs up at any one time. At the very most the 3 Merc selection should have been 3 loadout selection for that Merc to allow small deviations in role.

A simple example too this is a defending team in the same map being able to have 3 Skyhammers on an EV objective, 3 Bushwhackers on a hold/defuse objective and 5 medics on a push objective. This does NOT make gameplay dynamic. As a result videos based on how to play a certain Merc on a certain map are kind of muted and it limits you down to one or two videos per map where you cover everything. I was really hoping to see the draft system as it would have a huge impact on meta and we would see some crazy picks that would on the surface look like suicide. Having you play both the same Merc on attack and defend in stopwatch is very interesting actually. Would you want multiple Proxies and do I take 2 FO or 2 Medic. Having it so your setup means you can attack fast but knowing it you will find it harder on defence and stuff like that would have really opened up the game for me.

When it comes to multiple abilities, I always assumed this was a given. However the more I read the blogs the more obvious it is that you are all but done with the current selection. This makes me very sad. Leaves the game feeling over predicable and pretty boring to play. It is sad to say but I still do select a Merc based on his role + primary weapon more than anything else (with the exclusion of Skyhammer who is the current based FO due to air-strike). On top of that you are going to be sharing weapons between Mercs (what I consider to be the more recent horrible decision SD have made). Again this limits the ability to create video content on the Mercs as everything about them is fairly standard/dull. I still consider the Mercs to be nothing but a poorly implemented class system with a very limited loadout system. Sure I could stick around and see if you manage to improve the loadout system but knowing that you plan on sharing weapons, have weak perks, crazy rarity choices and no guarantee I can get what I want to make a video on, I have kinda lost hope here. This is one place where I think the TF2 standard for weapons would have been much better.

The weapons in general were something I thought would allow for lots of content. However, you have 1/10th of the weapons in the game when compared to games like CoD, BF, TF2 and more. Also the weapons are the most shallow aspect of the game. To the point where it would only really be worth creating a video per class of weapon rather then each weapon on its own. Every SMG feels like every SMG and Every shotgun feels like every shotgun. Battlefield has stuff like velocity, rate of fire, random deviation, predictable recoil, wide ranging DPS and lots of meaning full attachments and scopes. CoD is the same apart from velocity and DPS. Dirty Bomb on the other hand is literally all about sticking the crosshair on the enemy and holding fire whilst crossing your fingers. Based off the current weapon system I even doubt the attachments will make any real difference. Sure not all weapons are made equal but technically they all play the same.

I could continue on the game modes, team play, roles, objectives and much more but I think you get the idea. It is just really hard to make meaningful content on a game that is more about RAW SKILL than anything else. I think the simple fact that even as a Vasseli up close with secondary weapon out, I do not feel disadvantaged vs a Fragger or Thunder kinda explains what I mean.

Anyway, I will still be around the forums and you will continue to see me in game and stuff. I will also give my feedback on the game via posts and in chat and stuff. It’s been… well fun… and frustrating… lol, thanks :slight_smile:


(INF3RN0) #2

Started as an ET2 for the rest of the world, changed direction towards MOBA FPS, still caught in limbo, still waiting on true mechanics/meta development on that end. If it gets there or if it starts heading in that direction with more meaningful patches I’ll be happy, otherwise empty obj/sw servers. I can get a basic TDM experience anywhere. Not gonna post one of those “im done, but no for reals this time” thread because I’ve got nothing to lose and it’s an era of generic mildly successful mmo clones, so I expect I’ll remain patient for the next 6mo-1yr.


(onYn) #3

Can I just sign this :D? I am at a point of just expecting this game to take shape that resembles a fun game - no matter which type of game it will be then. I would still prefer it to be rather FPS then ability based, but that´s just personal preference :slight_smile:


(Seanza) #4

You wrote a post stating you’re gone, said you wished you had gotten to see the draft system and also that you’d maybe stick around if there were more depth to the weapons. Yet you footnote your post saying you’re still going to be around. Pretty much the only thing that’s changed then is that you won’t be asking for stock footage, NDA lifts and early access to media. Although I doubt very much you’ll not ask again :wink:

The post also has a tone as if you’re describing a finished game.


(PixelTwitch) #5

[QUOTE=Seanza;511523]You wrote a post stating you’re gone, said you wished you had gotten to see the draft system and also that you’d maybe stick around if there were more depth to the weapons. Yet you footnote your post saying you’re still going to be around. Pretty much the only thing that’s changed then is that you won’t be asking for stock footage, NDA lifts and early access to media. Although I doubt very much you’ll not ask again :wink:

The post also has a tone as if you’re describing a finished game.[/QUOTE]

Na mate, I am describing the path the game is taking.
When I say I am “done” I mean to the extent that I am here now. Going to jump on casually from time to time and no longer going to spend time looking for bugs and attempting to give feedback. I also wish all the developers good luck and hope that the game does well for them financially and stuff. I just thought with the high drop off rate the game has had up until this point, It could be useful to see why individual people drop off. Since I was here to make YouTube content and have fun, I wanted to explain why I fear its not going to be possible to do effectively due to lack of depth and stuff.

I still want this game to be bloody good!
I just feel like I have accepted its never going to be crazy great (for me at least).


(tokamak) #6

What this alpha needs is more people who care as much about this game as you.


(spookify) #7

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;511524]Na mate, I am describing the path the game is taking.
When I say I am “done” I mean to the extent that I am here now. Going to jump on casually from time to time and no longer going to spend time looking for bugs and attempting to give feedback. I also wish all the developers good luck and hope that the game does well for them financially and stuff. I just thought with the high drop off rate the game has had up until this point, It could be useful to see why individual people drop off. Since I was here to make YouTube content and have fun, I wanted to explain why I fear its not going to be possible to do effectively due to lack of depth and stuff.

I still want this game to be bloody good!
I just feel like I have accepted its never going to be crazy great (for me at least).[/QUOTE]

You should have been here for the Alpha! Wow… It was like ET2 sort of… It was a much simpler time… HAHA!!!
No 3 merc limit…
Mercs could NOT do all objectives…
Medic revives still sucked but at least you had to keep your engy alive.
Nexon wasnt involved yet…
Thought Iron-Sights were just going to be for Super Long Range…
Execution was able to play…
Spawn times and Maps were still blaa…
At one point SAW, Phoenix and Fragger all felt good…
Did I mention no Nexon? I do not recall having this Frame lag in Alpha… Seemed like we were on better servers…
O yeah and at the beginning of alpha there Medic packs worked like ET
AND
there was not health regen so medics were even more important…

OMG this is making me miss alpha … Even though it had its own problems at that time we though we could fix it… But then the things I mentioned were put in and totally took away team play…

The soul of RTCW and ET is what started this game, with the notion of making a LOL FPS style Ranked game… That is why I became a founder… Mid to Late Alpha the Soul was ripped out! And everything good, was gone… (Now Imagine reading this paragraph in Morgan Freeman’s Voice!!)

Take basketball out and replace it with DirtyBomb
Replace Ohio with SD
Replace Miami with Alpha

//youtu.be/fj9Ei7FGQgg


(Glottis-3D) #8

yeah, a lot of good stuff is gone =(

class objects, no regen, grenades.
and most importantly we all were hungry for new object game.
now i am very much fed up with it =(


(spookify) #9

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;511531]yeah, a lot of good stuff is gone =(

class objects, no regen, grenades.
and most importantly we all were hungry for new object game.
now i am very much fed up with it =([/QUOTE]

O Yeah we all had Nades!!! OMG!!!


(tokamak) #10

One year ago the alpha was horrible and everyone hated it and suddenly people are all nostalgic? That’s rich.

The last patch has done lots of things right. What I’d like to see now is more and bigger toys. But then again, QW is more my thing than W:ET.

Epic side-objective and crazy mercs and DB is going to be incredibly fun.


(PixelTwitch) #11

From the little I played and remember, The Alpha was a more complete experience and it did feel good.
However, I think if it went back to alpha tomorrow, within a few months everyone would hate it again.
It was much slower, visually better and easier to understand. I think thats what people miss :slight_smile:

One day maybe the current game will get back to that feeling but with the added features remaining in tact.


(Glottis-3D) #12

[QUOTE=tokamak;511533]One year ago the alpha was horrible and everyone hated it and suddenly people are all nostalgic? That’s rich.

The last patch has done lots of things right. What I’d like to see now is more and bigger toys. But then again, QW is more my thing than W:ET.

Epic side-objective and crazy mercs and DB is going to be incredibly fun.[/QUOTE]
year ago - yes. but 1.5 years ago i had GREAT FREAKIN TIMES with DirtyBomb.!!! i am not ashamed to admit it! =)))


(spookify) #13

[QUOTE=tokamak;511533]One year ago the alpha was horrible and everyone hated it and suddenly people are all nostalgic? That’s rich.

The last patch has done lots of things right. What I’d like to see now is more and bigger toys. But then again, QW is more my thing than W:ET.

Epic side-objective and crazy mercs and DB is going to be incredibly fun.[/QUOTE]

The alpha had a ton of problems… And were were giving tons and tons of suggestions on how to move it forward. A lot of things were sprung on use like 3 merc limit, HP regen and mercs can do every class that really put a sour taste in everyone’s mouth…

Then they nerf nades, then they get ride of nades on all classses and then they nerf ALL weapons to prepare for Add-On ironsights…

Nerf Medics then Nerfed Medics and then nerfed medics again…

Like pix said it was a simpler time…


(tokamak) #14

Yeah those aren’t the main issues with the game as mentioned by the testers. 80% of this forum consists of complaints about the maps. That was the case back then and it’s even more prevalent right now.

Back then a huge complaint was the shooting mechanics. The TTK and the movement were frustrating the players the most.

I disagree with your views on the merc limit, regen and agnostic objectives. I understand why one doesn’t like them but they’re not game-breaking points. So when discussing the overall narrative on this forum it would be prudent not to inject your own agenda into that.


(onYn) #15

[QUOTE=tokamak;511533]One year ago the alpha was horrible and everyone hated it and suddenly people are all nostalgic? That’s rich.

The last patch has done lots of things right. What I’d like to see now is more and bigger toys. But then again, QW is more my thing than W:ET.

Epic side-objective and crazy mercs and DB is going to be incredibly fun.[/QUOTE]

While many things have improved, a substantial amount of details have changed that actually shifted the game experience by a lot. At the same times you are usually more positive and forgiving in early phases, while the more you figure out your “own” way how a game is supposed to be the more frustrated you actually become about changes that don´t go along with your idea of the game…


(spookify) #16

[QUOTE=tokamak;511538]Yeah those aren’t the main issues with the game as mentioned by the testers. 80% of this forum consists of complaints about the maps. That was the case back then and it’s even more prevalent right now.

Back then a huge complaint was the shooting mechanics. The TTK and the movement were frustrating the players the most.

I disagree with your views on the merc limit, regen and agnostic objectives. I understand why one doesn’t like them but they’re not game-breaking points. So when discussing the overall narrative on this forum it would be prudent not to inject your own agenda into that.[/QUOTE]

The points I made along with maps I true feel were the deal breakers…

Yes the TTK was a huge issue but I do not remember movement being significantly bad. SD made only 2 movement speed changes if I remember correct… That was the funnest part of testing was spread, damage, testing hit boxes and recoil… Everyone knew SD was testing that and Balance patches came out ever 2 to 3 weeks…

People were coming and going back in the day… A lot of people including my friends left Alpha after a few updates because spread was too high… They, like me were drawn into this game by SD’s advertising of an ET style game… I think they came back once or twice but then say how everyone could do objectives, health regen and a few other things and said peace out…

Maps are probably still the biggest issue but with the classes and lack of need for team work this game, game play wise is totally different then the alpha…


(PixelTwitch) #17

I just want to put it out there… Again…
I honestly feel the biggest problem with the Maps is actually down to the mode and the game itself.

You could put hundreds more hours into the mapping and force them to work with the current modes but that does not mean the game is fixed. I still feel a good game/mode makes most maps feel at least semi decent. The more restrictive the game mode the more restrictive the maps kinda thing. I would prefer that SD tries to fix the maps by fixing the mode and not the other way around. Especially if we want lots of diverse maps in future.

Movement, Respawns, Combat Ranges, Objective Placement, Objective Functionality and Weapon Mechanics are the REAL reason behind the poor maps imho, not the maps themselves.


(Raviolay) #18

To be honest during the whole time I was in the Alpha I maybe saw twice on the servers. Admittedly lately I have had a long hiatus but I never once saw you post Nexon up to that. So going on that evidence I say you preferred the “good old days”:smiley:


(ailmanki) #19

Maybe a stupid analogy… anyway here it is. There are zillions of different cars; but they all share the same basics, 4 wheels an engine, and a spot to seat and stear.
Same with maps, you can make zillion of different maps, but they need to share the same basics. Those basics are currently bad, we voiced most of the basics since early alpha. And I believe better maps are on the way, problem is, making good maps takes a lot of time. Also the way SD makes maps has evolved, and so I hope they will be able to quicker evolve the maps in future. But I suppose they are still working on this stuff.
All the other stuff, objective agnostics and so on, is secondary for me. The game is FPS has objectives, now it needs excellent maps to accompany that. And also the perfomance is apparently still a problem. Also have I mentioned I still hate the color grading - lolz?


(Rex) #20

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;511516]Anyway, the big issue I have… The one aspect that I honestly feel has gimped the potential for depth and mastery is… Dirty Bomb should have been designed from the ground up with Mercs that have multiple abilities and the game modes should have run on a draft mode system. Having multiple Mercs per map/round with limited abilities promote switching Mercs and always having the best possible combo at any given point of a map. This limits choice, depth and meta game as it results in both attackers and defenders always being able to have the best Mercs up at any one time. At the very most the 3 Merc selection should have been 3 loadout selection for that Merc to allow small deviations in role.

A simple example too this is a defending team in the same map being able to have 3 Skyhammers on an EV objective, 3 Bushwhackers on a hold/defuse objective and 5 medics on a push objective. This does NOT make gameplay dynamic. As a result videos based on how to play a certain Merc on a certain map are kind of muted and it limits you down to one or two videos per map where you cover everything. I was really hoping to see the draft system as it would have a huge impact on meta and we would see some crazy picks that would on the surface look like suicide. Having you play both the same Merc on attack and defend in stopwatch is very interesting actually. Would you want multiple Proxies and do I take 2 FO or 2 Medic. Having it so your setup means you can attack fast but knowing it you will find it harder on defence and stuff like that would have really opened up the game for me.[/QUOTE]

Forcing you to play only merc on attack and defence is what a call limited choice. For me 3 mercs are already limiting enough. A pick system like in MOBAs would bring other problems on the table.

Multiple abilities don’t exist for one merc, because that would destory the whole concept of having multiple mercs and selling them.

‘RAW SKILL’ is not something what I consider as bad.

Your whole posts sounds a bit like you are only here, because you want to create video content about it on youtube. If that is your only goal, it won’t be hard for you to say goodbye to DB, or? I mean there are plenty of FPS games coming out which will offer this. (No offence!)
For many others here it meant to be way more than that.

Yup.

Sorry, but despite there were some things better as you mentioned below at no point ever this felt like an ET2.

The soul was ripped out when they finally decided to take another path for DB and move away from the core concepts which made ET games so special. I’m not sure at what point this actually was.

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;511531]yeah, a lot of good stuff is gone =(

class objects, no regen, grenades.
and most importantly we all were hungry for new object game.
now i am very much fed up with it =([/QUOTE]

Missing nades are a good example. But just one out of many.

People weren’t happy back then and still aren’t today…

TTK is still frustrating. :mad:

I can totally understand why your friends left, especially when they had false expectations. Sadly it was never the spread which was too high for SD, but everything else.

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;511550]I just want to put it out there… Again…
I honestly feel the biggest problem with the Maps is actually down to the mode and the game itself.

You could put hundreds more hours into the mapping and force them to work with the current modes but that does not mean the game is fixed. I still feel a good game/mode makes most maps feel at least semi decent. The more restrictive the game mode the more restrictive the maps kinda thing. I would prefer that SD tries to fix the maps by fixing the mode and not the other way around. Especially if we want lots of diverse maps in future.

Movement, Respawns, Combat Ranges, Objective Placement, Objective Functionality and Weapon Mechanics are the REAL reason behind the poor maps imho, not the maps themselves.[/QUOTE]

Which mode do you want to see?