I am very much curious how the approach to the game balance is done by splash… from what i’ve seen they take a very data-driven approach which means that they look at a bunch of statistics and decides from that that the least used weapon should get a buff because “it’s used too little”. Shouldn’t the approach to buff/nerf be driven by a player-driven approach so that either the roles of the character get re-designed in order to make them fit into a certain category or are we going to have a bunch of unbalanced classes able to counter whatever other classes without any repercussions? I get that maybe the approach right now is to get all the “lower levels” into the game so that they have a decent chance against people that are a bit “higher level” than them, but for me personally is seem like a waste of time to play “casual” if a level 5 can just look at you and spray from the opposite site of the map and take you out with the hochfir which got a buff recently because it was (underused? Underpowered? shit i’ve taken out a rhino with that gun before the update with no problem as proxy)… i suggest that people take a closer look at what the roles are for each merc and start to take an approach to this game similar to that of overwatch so that a specific merc counters another with their access to certain weapons and abilities rather than what it is right now… discuss… i’m curious of the communities oppinion on this
The approach to game balance
Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaa no.
We don’t need this rock paper scissors garbage that is prevalent in team based games, it works in them because they are completely designed around it, but in DB? Every merc can kill, so all weapons should ideally be designed to be relatively on par with each other in their subclass. Hochfir was garbage compared to the KEK and Crotzni, so it got a buff. Empire-9 has had nerfs because it outperformed the Tolen and MP400. Sometimes stuff goes wrong or gets hit too hard and they might fix it eventually.
It’s why I like this game, anyone can beat anyone if you outplay them through aim or key ability usage, we don’t have this awful “well, you’re a medic so you can’t kill anyone unless they’re literally braindead” balance design.
I’ve killed a Rhino with a Selb only therefore the Selb will never need a buff because my sample size of one trumps all.
Please edit your post so that it’s properly spaced 
That’s not a forum rule but it is a courtesy that everyone should observe.
As far as the content of that GIANT WALL OF TEXT. I am not a fan of rock/paper/scissor gameplay. There are just too many situations that your skill won’t allow you to get around. You simply lose in a lot of situations where in a game like DB you might win out even if the odds aren’t in your favor. Your personal skill plays a bigger role in winning or losing as opposed to 1 or 2 people messing up or getting caught by something random and then bam, you lose. There is nothing more aggravating than playing perfectly only to lose to something that was completely out of your control because you happened to get put in a situation your class has zero chance of being able to compete with.
[quote=“Amerika;208552”]Please edit your post so that it’s properly spaced That’s not a forum rule but it is a courtesy that everyone should observe.
As far as the content of that GIANT WALL OF TEXT. I am not a fan of rock/paper/scissor gameplay. There are just too many situations that your skill won’t allow you to get around. You simply lose in a lot of situations where in a game like DB you might win out even if the odds aren’t in your favor. Your personal skill plays a bigger role in winning or losing as opposed to 1 or 2 people messing up or getting caught by something random and then bam, you lose. There is nothing more aggravating than playing perfectly only to lose to something that was completely out of your control because you happened to get put in a situation your class has zero chance of being able to compete with.[/quote]
This is the main reason why other “Hero Shooters” strive me away (TF2, Paladins, Overwatch).
I absolutely hate relying on my useless team mates, trying to cover up my class’s huge weaknesses. I like runnin’ solo TBH.
Sad thing is, apart from DB, only games like ET: Wolfenstein or upcoming Lawbreakers are class based shooters without rock, paper, scissors mechanics. I know there’s CoD and BF, but that’s a different can of worms.
[quote=“TheStrangerous;208554”][quote=“Amerika;208552”]Please edit your post so that it’s properly spaced That’s not a forum rule but it is a courtesy that everyone should observe.
As far as the content of that GIANT WALL OF TEXT. I am not a fan of rock/paper/scissor gameplay. There are just too many situations that your skill won’t allow you to get around. You simply lose in a lot of situations where in a game like DB you might win out even if the odds aren’t in your favor. Your personal skill plays a bigger role in winning or losing as opposed to 1 or 2 people messing up or getting caught by something random and then bam, you lose. There is nothing more aggravating than playing perfectly only to lose to something that was completely out of your control because you happened to get put in a situation your class has zero chance of being able to compete with.[/quote]
This is the main reason why other “Hero Shooters” strive me away (TF2, Paladins, Overwatch).
I absolutely hate relying on my useless team mates, trying to cover up my class’s huge weaknesses. I like runnin’ solo TBH.
Sad thing is, apart from DB, only games like ET: Wolfenstein or upcoming Lawbreakers are class based shooters without rock, paper, scissors mechanics. I know there’s CoD and BF, but that’s a different can of worms.[/quote]
Paladins isn’t rock/paper/scissors balancing like TF2/OW. It’s definitely a lot more like DB in that even support/tanks can win fights.
Lawbreakers, at least up to this point, is purely skill driven and there isn’t any support classes. There is a semi-tanky class though.
After more than a year of playing this game and the amount of time it takes SD to make the Public matchmaking since they announced it I do not believe that this game will get a proper balance system ever.
[quote=“LifeupOmega;208614”]
To be fair that’s more like Rock/Paper/Scissors/Soldier ;)[/quote]
Rock/Paper/Shotgun
not to be confused with actual website
Or if we do, we’ll have a Winter Whack ™ to prevent it from completely killing the game, further pushing back content. Christmas this year will be cancelled due to bugs - Santa tried to come down the chimney but he fell into the fire, caused the entire family to get incapped trying to resurrect him then his game crashed.
I’m being a right meanie these days :<
Or if we do, we’ll have a Winter Whack ™ to prevent it from completely killing the game, further pushing back content. Christmas this year will be cancelled due to bugs - Santa tried to come down the chimney but he fell into the fire, caused the entire family to get incapped trying to resurrect him then his game crashed.
I’m being a right meanie these days :<[/quote]
Thank god santa claus didnt get gibbed by that fire…
Rock, paper, scissors is a good balancing system if it isn’t the primary way to balance things. I prefer when everything has the ability to kill, but some are better at it than others, at different ranges, hence why I like the balance system in DB.
i would say the balance of Tf2 is more like
SOLDIER SOLDIER SOLDIER SOLDIER SOLDIER SOLDIER SOLDIER SOLDIER
SOLDIER >everything else
no seriously how is it acceptable how op he is ? just rocket spam everywhere
anyways after ranting about what drives me away from that game aside from valve not bieng able to keep the game fresh
i also agree that everyone bieng able to get kills is a much better system than rock/paper/scisors or the rocket spam balance looks angrily at tf2
[quote=“memorableCarrot;209059”]i would say the balance of Tf2 is more like
SOLDIER SOLDIER SOLDIER SOLDIER SOLDIER SOLDIER SOLDIER SOLDIER
SOLDIER >everything else
no seriously how is it acceptable how op he is ? just rocket spam everywhere
anyways after ranting about what drives me away from that game aside from valve not bieng able to keep the game fresh
i also agree that everyone bieng able to get kills is a much better system than rock/paper/scisors or the rocket spam balance looks angrily at tf2[/quote]
the thing i dont get in DB there are people who thinks this “SPAM” strategy and making some of the characters “less powerful” is acceptable.
All Mercs should have the same degree on melting other mercs. So the one that plays are not “SPAM Q TO SPAM MEXICAN STICKY BALLS” but more gunplay and skilled jumps to avoid unwinnable shoot-outs
@memorableCarrot
it isn’t half as bad in highlander (one soldier/demoman per team) too bad nobody plays it because it would force players to pick classes they can’t/don’t want.
Off topic: did they finally release the highlander matchmaking? If yes, i might re-install TF2.
And yeah, adding more hats doesn’t keep the game fresh for 10+ years - but no need to tell, since we both are here, right?
@sweetColumn
Friendly fire kinda reduces the mindless spam, but spamming explosives on frequently used locations only when there aren’t any teammates nearby is still way too effective.
[quote=“memorableCarrot;209059”]i would say the balance of Tf2 is more like
SOLDIER SOLDIER SOLDIER SOLDIER SOLDIER SOLDIER SOLDIER SOLDIER
SOLDIER >everything else
no seriously how is it acceptable how op he is ? just rocket spam everywhere
anyways after ranting about what drives me away from that game aside from valve not bieng able to keep the game fresh
i also agree that everyone bieng able to get kills is a much better system than rock/paper/scisors or the rocket spam balance looks angrily at tf2[/quote]
It was a joke, but if you’re being serious, learn to play Scout - who, at a high level, is by far the most brokenly overpowered (core) class in the game, Sniper isn’t as reliable but still ridiculous too.
TF2 is 9 years old, you can’t expect them to update it forever.
[quote=“sweetColumn;209061”]
the thing i dont get in DB there are people who thinks this “SPAM” strategy and making some of the characters “less powerful” is acceptable.
All Mercs should have the same degree on melting other mercs. So the one that plays are not “SPAM Q TO SPAM MEXICAN STICKY BALLS” but more gunplay and skilled jumps to avoid unwinnable shoot-outs[/quote]
By your logic every merc should have the same degree on healing teammates and doing objectives. Why having mercs then anyway if everyone can do the same?
[quote=“Jostabeere;209103”][quote=“sweetColumn;209061”]
the thing i dont get in DB there are people who thinks this “SPAM” strategy and making some of the characters “less powerful” is acceptable.
All Mercs should have the same degree on melting other mercs. So the one that plays are not “SPAM Q TO SPAM MEXICAN STICKY BALLS” but more gunplay and skilled jumps to avoid unwinnable shoot-outs[/quote]
By your logic every merc should have the same degree on healing teammates and doing objectives. Why having mercs then anyway if everyone can do the same?[/quote]
take for example proxy.
proxy Hochfir is no match for skyhammer m4. But then Proxy has speed, which she can use to run to cover, bounce from wall to throw off aim and close the range required to make hochfir effective. Proxy also has smaller hitbox which makes her harder to shoot. She can use this advantage to kill skyhammer that was shooting her from the distance.
these seems forgettable to some but if you think about it, even sparks can kill rhino with only a stilletto and medpacks if she needs it.
the point of having different mercs is to differentiate gunplay, abilities and etc.
for example take Rhino.
lately ive been using the ice cold focus rhino with the Hollunds 880.
while other rhinos play hide and spin minigun i play fat scout while occasionally using minigun.
You did not explain your initial thought about “All Mercs should have the same degree on melting other mercs”. You just randomly talked about what differently skilled players do and what not. Try again.
[quote=“LifeupOmega;209090”]
TF2 is 9 years old, you can’t expect them to update it forever.[/quote]
Volvo please! Hurry up and bring out TF3, Portal 3, Half Life 3, Left 4 Dead 3 and Dota 3.