That old 'get rid of levels' debacle.


(Matuno) #1

I don’t even need to dedicate a wall of text to this issue, because I’m sure nearly all people of reasonable playtime will agree with me that there are very few merits to the level system, and that it actually does more harm than good.

Apparently, I’m not allowed to play in open servers or min lvl 10 server, hell, sometimes not even min lvl 20 servers, because I’m lvl 82 “and should go play ranked”. I get that thrown at me daily, and I’ve had a few successful kickvotes initiated against me to power that argument.

Though it’s nice to show that I am a virgin, I have no life and live in my mum’s basement (according to fellow players), I’m actually very tired of hearing the same ‘jokes’ and insults over and over again.

Displaying player levels doesn’t do much more than feed the trolls. It creates the illusion of unbalanced teams before a single shot is fired, it causes people to leave games, or give off verbal abuse. It doesn’t give me +50% health, it doesn’t give me a damage modifier, it only creates rageenvy.

My Cobalts do a good enough job of conveying the message that I have, in fact, no life and play DB all day, every day.

Please remove levels, or at the very least remove it from the lobby/scoreboard. I’m sure that your UI people can make this happen over a cup of coffee.

Or cap the level shown to 30 or something, so we can still get alerted when a lvl 5 is ‘too good’ to be true and check them out for the possiblity of hacking. Little more work required, but that’s up to you. Just make the abuse stop. Stahp. Plox. Please. Pr33se.


(OmaGretel) #2

Or simply display the ELO rating, that is based on your performance for the last 25 matches. That would make it visible, why MM has made the teams the way they are. It would also let you see how well you have done recently and how some mercs influence your rating more than others for example.


(Kakutov) #3

I love how ppl say: “Being a high lvl doesn’t give me +50% health, it doesn’t give me a damage modifier” but at the end of the day they stomp low levels and most of the time they spawncamp them. So if you see these jokes that means you are playing a lot against newbs that are tired of fighting against more experienced player. Just play on min 20lvl servers and you’ll be good.
It’s not about levels, but about lack of balance in pubs.


(OmaGretel) #4

[quote=“Kakutov;171093”]I love how ppl say: “Being a high lvl doesn’t give me +50% health, it doesn’t give me a damage modifier” but at the end of the day they stomp low levels and most of the time they spawncamp them. So if you see these jokes that means you are playing a lot against newbs that are tired of fighting against more experienced player. Just play on min 20lvl servers and you’ll be good.
It’s not about levels, but about lack of balance in pubs.[/quote]

Yes, spawncamping is my favourite hobby, I do it in every game, because being high level gave me magical super powers that make me so much better than everyone else who is even just 1 level lower than me.

Your kind of mentality is exactly what he was talking about. As a high level you get judged before you have even fired a shot.


(Kakutov) #5

[quote=“OmaGretel;171094”][quote=“Kakutov;171093”]I love how ppl say: “Being a high lvl doesn’t give me +50% health, it doesn’t give me a damage modifier” but at the end of the day they stomp low levels and most of the time they spawncamp them. So if you see these jokes that means you are playing a lot against newbs that are tired of fighting against more experienced player. Just play on min 20lvl servers and you’ll be good.
It’s not about levels, but about lack of balance in pubs.[/quote]

Yes, spawncamping is my favourite hobby, I do it in every game, because being high level gave me magical super powers that make me so much better than everyone else who is even just 1 level lower than me.[/quote]

Because you’re obviously better than ppl from lvls 1-10 and spawncamping them is so easy? FailFish
And yea, I’ve seen tons of unbalanced games where ppl at lvls 40-80 were just stomping newbs. What’s the most funny, they never want to shuffle or switch team.


(LifeupOmega) #6

Every single game I get the same bullshit. Threats, calls of no life, harassment; all simply because I want to play the game, do my missions, and then leave. These weekend warriors who’ll drop the game before level 10 just simply can’t seem to grasp that there are people who enjoy the game and are dedicated to it, but aren’t happy with the state of MM or forced 7v7 in higher level servers.

Most players are garbage, this doesn’t exclude those at 20 or above. I see the same Rhino main there who never gets more than 5 kills a game and he’s like 25 now somehow. They’re also 7v7 only, which is a massive no go. Maybe if Splash actually gave us the 5v5/6v6 servers we’ve been asking for for months now I’d be inclined to agree.


(FireWorks) #7

From what I understand, the showing of levels on pub is gone soon.

http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/49937-SD-could-you-hide-levels-already-for-gods-sake


(Matuno) #8

[quote=“Kakutov;171093”]I love how ppl say: “Being a high lvl doesn’t give me +50% health, it doesn’t give me a damage modifier” but at the end of the day they stomp low levels and most of the time they spawncamp them. So if you see these jokes that means you are playing a lot against newbs that are tired of fighting against more experienced player. Just play on min 20lvl servers and you’ll be good.
It’s not about levels, but about lack of balance in pubs.[/quote]

Kakutov, I’m tired of players that feel that they should be protected against good players, like every game should be customised to their level of playing.

There are nearly no games that even have any form of level segregation, not in shooters at least. Why should DB be any different? Participation is the reward.


(MarsRover) #9

[quote=“FireWorks;171099”]From what I understand, the showing of levels on pub is gone soon.

http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/49937-SD-could-you-hide-levels-already-for-gods-sake[/quote]

Thats’ great but while we’re waiting for that removing them from lobbies and scoreboards seems like an easy thing to do.


(DaaDog) #10

I’m level 56 and on Aus servers I don’t get any direct hate at me (Like 1 incident ages ago involving a lv 60), people are generally cool. I find most of the time people that are higher level (20+) are the dickheads that complain and moan like little kids.


(SereneFlight) #11

Well… might as well write some sort of wall of text, save it and re-use every time somebody complains about the balance.

So… what could possibly affect on the balance? “LEVELS OBVIOUSLY YOU NITWIT!”

Levels
Yes… they do affect on balance because experience! … … well shit… I think I just admitted that levels do matter… well, I think I’m done here. Goodnight folks and balance your shit SD!!!

…oh only if that was the only thing that affects on how balanced matches are xP

Players have different gaming backgrounds
Somebody who has played a lot of Splash Damage games already knows a quite lot how things work in DB than a person who plays a lot of CS:GO.
And somebody who plays a lot of CS:GO probably has better understanding of the game early on than somebody who plays a lot of CoD.

Experience with class, merc, weapon etc. etc. they’re playing
Yeah… I’m 99% useless when I’m derping as Vassili. I think that’s nuff said.

Is an individual playing the role (s)he chose to play effectively?
We see Medics running past downed teammates, Engineers give 0 fucks about the objective, Fire Supports not giving ammo, Assaults hiding behind a corner and Value Recons are ready to value.
One would think this is thing with under level 10 only but the reason I tend not to play on min level 10 servers is because all that shit happens on those servers frequently as well, which just makes me to lose faith in humanity.
All this because these individuals chose not to play as a team and go for that KDR and most of the time even failing in that because they didn’t play as a team and got jumped by half of the enemy team.

Team Composition
Let’s say we’re playing 7v7 and here’s our teams:
Team 1 - 2x Vassili, 2x Phantom, Aura, Stoker and Skyhammer.
Team 2 - Vassili, Sparks, Aura, 2x Proxy, Fletcher and Stoker.
Now… which team is more likely to win by just looking at the team compositions?
It’s no-brainer that a bad team composition can easily cost you a game. Next!

Benefits of hiding levels in pubs
A lot of the time people get really discouraged when they look at the levels and players you saw doing their job at least decently during last couple games, suddenly don’t really bother to even try from the very start of if the team isn’t getting the first objective done within 10 seconds and the whole team falls apart.
However, when people don’t get super discouraged right of the bat or if the initial push fails, they can win. Sure, it’s not going to happen very often but at least they are able to put a good fight and more importantly, tend not to get spawn camped 24/7.
“Oh but I try and I get spawn camped”
Well… good that you try but it takes the whole team… unless you’re MLG Fletcha.

Just yesterday I played Terminal on defense (and yes, our avg level was much higher than theirs), we got C4 on Gas Tunnel generator right of the bat, wiped out the initial push and the C4 went off… but they didn’t give up… nope, we tried to set up a siege but that didn’t go too well and it took them few minutes to push all the way to the wall and during the second phase our team stumbled a little bit which caused few people to basically give up. That’s how we lost.

Have people tried to git gud or are they just trying to have good ol’ fun in pubs?
I’m a lvl 34 pubscrub and as useful as rock with a face drawn on it while lvl 20 ranked player is probably going to be a lot more useful than I am (as long this ranked player doesn’t just run a circle when he’s playing ranked mode).

Hmm… I feel like I’m missing something but whatevs… and I bloody well hope I didn’t lose my train of thought as some point, went off to write some other stuff while forgetting to finish what I was earlier writing lol.

Anyways -ahem- of course there’s something SD could do to improve the balance but some people haven’t seem to realize the same as I have and instead just look at the level imbalance and think it’s the only problem.


(Drac0rion) #12

You know what, ya’ll higher levels, I’ll take all of you on!
I god damn love pushing my luck vs those who are better than me, who knows, maybe I’ll learn a thing or two. And grow a thicker skin ya pansys!

And for all of you kiddos lower level than me, with the hackusations and all the other excuses for being bad.
Either stfu or git gud. I’m not here to hold your hand, I’ll just kick your teeth in! It’s my duty to educate you scrubs… with bullets!
(watch the damn trailer… I swear half of ya don’t even know what this game is about)

I’ll fite all of ya!
(except when you jump around throwing your sticky loads all over the place… fighting that is just not fun…)

Both sides should just quit being so damn sensitive. And for real, just replace levels with ranks.
Scrub lvl 1-10, Dirty Bum 11-30 and The Dirty Veteran 30+ (just a lame example)

And have servers according to rank. Sure you will still have smurfs and players from other shooters that will stand out, but it doesn’t have to be perfect. Just a little better.

And btw, next time @Matuno, don’t run from me from a server after I’ve only had my first round to warmup, I barely even got a few stabs at ya for you to start running from me. :wink:


(watsyurdeal) #13

Personally I don’t give a damn what people think of my level, I just get tired of people whining.


(bontsa) #14

Merc levels or no levels. This is first person shooter, not a role play game despite having classes. One doesnt have some bloody skillpoints or gear to updgrade with levels racked up with gametime, so why would there be such system.


(Matuno) #15

[quote=“Dracorion;171120”]
And btw, next time @Matuno, don’t run from me from a server after I’ve only had my first round to warmup, I barely even got a few stabs at ya for you to start running from me. ;)[/quote]
You know how it is, gotta keep moving! :wink:


(ImSploosh) #16

I didn’t even realize there were min level 20 servers until I saw this thread. Then I looked and… there are none… at least not ones that are populated and in the U.S…

All of the min 20 servers are in Europe and I don’t feel like pinging 130 ish to play on them. I’ll just stick to getting wrecked by level 5’s. :slight_smile:

I’m sad. :frowning:


(AnonOmis1000) #17

I like how you say you aren’t going to dedicate a wall of text to this topic, then proceed to do so.


(FalC_16) #18

I support OP. Removing the levels might result in less toxicity and flame. Such a change can’t do any harm. We are in beta after all, why not to test removing it for a period of time.


(Kakutov) #19

lol
Not in this game.


(Sorotia) #20

[quote=“Kakutov;171093”]I love how ppl say: “Being a high lvl doesn’t give me +50% health, it doesn’t give me a damage modifier” but at the end of the day they stomp low levels and most of the time they spawncamp them. So if you see these jokes that means you are playing a lot against newbs that are tired of fighting against more experienced player. Just play on min 20lvl servers and you’ll be good.
It’s not about levels, but about lack of balance in pubs.[/quote]

Level doesn’t mean much…I’m 34…and I’ve got beaten by people in the single digits…by someone who has spent thousands of hours in CSGO or TF2 but only recently came to try DB.

Why can’t people understand that? So what…in another 10-20 levels I should be forced to play comp if I even think about playing against someone lower level than me?

They really need to eliminate the level system…all it does for the game is give you a free case every level…