Just remember having large open terrain in d3 like ET is really hard to do, and make it look as good as ET does cause of the hard shadows and performance, I’ve tried and I failed.
If I were you I’d just work with what comes with d3 and make base maps etc to get really used to the technology I have a hunch one of the next d3 engine games coming out will have much better support for terrain 
Z
i’ve been mucking around in D3 for a few weeks now and i still have not started an actual map. There’s so much to learn im just making lots of little tests to see what does what. i recommend you get D3 asap and start mucking around.
have you used blender to make any terrain yet?
Not with the retail version. I did quite a bit of experimenting with the alpha but obviously it was really just finding out how D3 at the time did the basics… importing map files and so on, blending wasn’t even there iirc.
The thing to realise about blending the way it is now is that it’s not restricted to just terrains, there are objects you’ll see ingame that have been blended to quite good effect esp. when combined with all the shader/particle effects available
@blushing_bride, agreed, I dont see any harm in getting d3 asap, even if my pc isnt upgraded yet …because as you say I could still do tests, and I normally work in test maps anyway, then if I`m happy with the results I copy them over to my main maps
@kat, understood and as you might know, Ive been experimenting with q3map2s various blending techniques for most of the last year …trying to find the most creative uses for them, although mainly with my terrain and water, but also some ‘secret’ sci-fi test maps of generators, plasma (2d shader driven ones)
and more recently I did a ton of work with jas powerful particle effects system, although I suspect d3s would be even more advanced… anyway, if I can apply blending or particles to something I build I probably will from now on
@zombie, Ive accepted were currently limited to hard edge shadows, although hopefully future d3 based engines will improve on this, do you think so?
as for the performance (and please correct me if Im wrong on any of this) ...I understand the issue is not the tris number the d3 engine can draw for large areas, nor even so much the sun light (based on what Ive read of the doom3 can do it too over at doom3world) …but the biggest problems being multiple lights cast on the same surfaces, and the volume shadows cast are apparently heavily software dependant? …so until a time when our gfx cards can render these in hardware then we`ve got to be very careful with our use of them?
so how about a medium sized terrain map (ie not even as big as some et maps) with a few trees and plants …just to give the impression of woodland, and all the models for those not casting volume shadows but using 2d alpha shadows?
surely there is some faking that can be done to give a half way impression between no foliage in ‘large’ areas and the other extreme being a huge densely populated forest or jungle like the far cry game?
also as far as terrain maps, Im pretty confident once Ive got past the basics, that I will be able to build at least a cave system map and release it in a playable state (ie decent fps) using the software and hardware available to us atm.
@everyone here, please forgive me if this sounds a tad conceited or too far fetched, but my end goal is to design (and build as much as possible) my own full title game.
Ive been working on the concept design (mainly written notes and a few small concept maps) for about 2 years will a team mate from my heretic2 (q2 engine) mapping days ...I started to build the demo maps for this using rtcw (q3 engine) but eventually realized I was working with an engine that would become out of date, by the time I could finish even the demo, let alone a full title game, including finding all the people to help me along the way ...which Ive also realized is probably a harder task in it`s self then me learning all the technical and artistic skills I can do on my own.
anyway… some time next year, I`m going to seriously attempt a demo project of several maps, using which ever engine is most likely to be still popular in a couple of years time, as that is when my full title game might be finished.
so Im not too worried if the current d3 engine cant implement certain effects, like soft edge shadows, as long as I think Im betting on the right horse... so any and all advise you guys can give me on this is welcome, and I wont be offended by any comments of ‘too hard, don`t even attempt it’ as this game project of mine is what I live for
i cant imagine that the doom3 engine would not be able to do something. The problem with it at the moment is that its ahead of its time and technology and peoples thinking need to catch up. just imagine trying to make fuel dump when quake 3 came out as that seems to be about the situation we are at now.
thanks blushing_bride, I really appreciate your thoughts on this as I know your a good mapper
and I spent most of yesterday reading more about the d3 engine, including going through most of the ‘doom3 can do it too’ forum, well the topics I hadnt previously read, and seeing more pics you guys posted of a large bright sunny map, with good ambient lighting has really inspired me to use this engine... Id just like a few more of you regulars in here to comment.
my impression is d3 seems a very artistic and polished engine with the bonus that the editor is based on radiant, which I love working with …also that blender 3d app which kat recommended is looking very promising for building the models with, although I havent got round to actually trying it yet, as Ive been doing so much reading.
one thing which might hold me off being able to start some d3 test maps when I first get the game is Ive read the editor doesnt like to run in win98se although the game can be hacked to do so… is there any mappers in here who run it on the old os? …I am planning on upgrading to xp when my new pc is built, but I might install it on this one before then if it`s the only way I can run doom edit?
I spoke too soon about blender, I cant read most of the buttons on its gui, too small text and the grey text on grey menus color scheme didnt help, anyway no matter how powerful that app is I dont think I`ll be able to use it.
can anyone post some pics of mayas gui? I know its not free but I would seriously like to see what it looks like …maybe Ill be able to afford it in the future... I tried looking for ages on the alias (maya) website but all they seemed to have was some annoying downloadable .pdf adverts for it, and of the ones I waited 1/2 hr to dl they didnt show the interface.
edit:I just found this cool site with some pics of maya, although an older version, if anyone here uses an up to date version does it still look the same? I do like the clear, easy to read maya gui shown on the site I linked to.
maya has some nice features including a polygon sculpting tool which might be useful for terrain generation or pulling out rock walls. in this example i am pulling polygons on the y-axis ( raising terrain) try the maya ple (personal learning edition) which is a free download (and is also included on one of the ut2003 discs). however it wont save / export to any useful formats, only the ple format.
thanks a lot Torchy, and that does look and sound great
is maya what you used to build your terrain maps for ja? those were really impressive
I`m also looking into the cheaper game space, do you know anything about that app?
Ratty, in regards to your modeling software problem I ask that you consider the following solution (I started with Doom 3 not knowing much about modeling).
Use both Wings3d and Blender. The reason I used the Wings3d/Blender method (Model/UV in Wings3d>export to .OBJ>import .OBJ into blender>export from blender into .LWO files for lowpoly models and .ASE files for Highpoly using the USMExport plugin …for Unreal Tournament… phew… ) was the fact that for the life of me I couldnt figure out Blender’s GUI in a reasonable amount of time and found Wings3d’s GUI to be rather easy to use (Also, I find the UV tools to be much better).
Anyhow, this method only uses Blender as a throughput for file formats as Wings3d cant export to .ASE (no plugins exist, and its apperently impossible) and Doom 3 cant read Wings3d’s .LWO files. Contact me if you have any questions about this (On Doom 3 World somwhere, or jsut reply in this topic I guess), it was quite hard before I figured out a method. 
This may be a tiny bit helpfull as well.
http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=7453&highlight=
thanks c–b, and Ill try this method, but Ill probably need step by step (screen shot) instructions with the blender part as I cant read most of its buttons or menus …although I will be able to remember what some of them do, if I was helped to learn them… of course this also depends on how I get on with wings3d, which I was put off by reading of its lack of export formats, but since youve got it working, I`m prepared to give it a go
Im also not out ruling saving up (well borrowing) the money for one of the professional apps, although if I can find a cheaper (and legal) alternative, Ill give it a go.
its a shame the modeling process is so hard to get setup, Im reasonably confident the actual modeling part will be easy for me once I find the right software
anyone else who has any tips on any of this, and doesn`t mind posting them, then please do, even if it just helps me learn what are the most popular solutions to use, it will further my understanding of this area of games development.
also I will be registering over at doom3world soon, especially since I`ve been lurking there so much over the last few days.
Somtimes I think saving up for a more professional modeling program would be better in the long run, then I think most are geared towards things other than games as well…Cluttered up with lighting and camera options and such. Anyway, thats why I like Wings. No clutter
So give it a try (Tutorials perhaps) see how you like it, and I’ll probably end up writing a tutorial on it for Doom 3 World.
Also, there are a few Video Tutorials done by Brian Trepaning (http://www.planetdoom.com/leveled/videotuts/brain/index.shtml) one of which is “Blending Terrain Textures for DOOM 3” for 3d Studio Max however, but I find them helpfull none the less.
cool and thanks for the links, I read through the whole of the previous topic you showed me, interesting stuff
Ive just found something which might explain why I couldnt read the menus or buttons in blender, although as Ive uninstalled and deleted the dl from my hd, I wont know for sure.
anyway, a few minutes ago I installed wings3d and again the menu text was grey on grey and really blurry, so I altered the colors to black on white in the prefs, but still the text was blurry and wasnt black but a mid grey... I then remembered I had 4x fsaa set in my ati control panel, so I turned that off and the wings3d menus became very clear to read (after restarting wings) ...Im definitely going to give this one a good try, and I might even dl blender again and see if the fsaa made a difference… just a tip for anyone else who runs into this problem.
c–b, I set up a gamespy account and followed the links where one of those video tutorials was, but it wouldnt download, and says "click here if your download doesnt start" or something like that, which I did and it just links back to the same page… any ideas?
Login to File planet and then paste this link into the address bar at the top.
http://xferoc1.fileplanet.com/^1105481657/planetdoom/files/d3_blending_terrain_textures.zip
Not really sure if this will work. This is the link you get when there isnt a wait in line at the download manager.
wow, that works, thanks… so maybe I wasn`t getting as far as the download manager, although I was logged in?
Thats what I’d assumed. Anyway, you’re just lucky that it worked, could have been a lineup. 
Glad to hear it worked anyhow.
understood and its still dl, lol just 1 hr 10 mins to go, although Im not complaining as I think that tut will be very interesting
wow, vertex painting rocks (pun intended)
this technology is very exciting for me, and I can see why its used instead of the manual placement of vertex values, like in q3map2s volume blending, which although produces similar visual results, would appear to be a slower process to work with then painting the 3d models directly with alpha values, via manipulation of a grey scale bitmap… I also like how the bitmaps can be created in a paint program and loaded into the modeling programs, in the same way a height map can be created.
can anyone confirm that wings3d uses vertex paint or a very similar system?
