I’d like to get some people testing TDM maps and gameplay again soon. The mode and maps have been neglected for some time, so if we add them back in, will people test it?
It would be three maps to begin with, possibly a block out as well.
Thoughts?
TDM maps/servers
MrFunkyFunk
(MrFunkyFunk)
#2
Avail anytime.
It would be great if we got a few really motivated testers to play them thoroughly (and why not with voice com).
Cause the obj server is a bit like a huge tdm server anyway, better to play the real thing right? 
Dthy
(Dthy)
#3
Maps are too big and/or linear for TDM and the classes become pointless imo since for TDM all the action is usually in one place and everyone would just go for the best all-round fragging class. Would be nice to see the blockout though!
MrFunkyFunk
(MrFunkyFunk)
#5
Back when there servers were still avail I actually found the daylight LB map (the part with the 2nd barricade in obj mode) to be decent.
I only managed to get to play twice with people sticking together (4v4) and I had some good fun.
The LB night map (first part in obj mode where the ev spawns) was the one I disliked the most, small cramped corridors where you were forced to bump into others, altho it would entice players to use shotguns I guess.
I’m curious to see if any side mechanic will be introduced to change the dynamism/flow in TDM as we first tested it, it was rather bland imo.
Some bonus/powerups that could be announced on screen or by the commander to shift focus of the groups to certain areas or some capping points that gives X points every X minutes to the teams that hold them (introducing interesting def and/or attack gambles). Altho those systems require a defined amount of players at all time to work so it might be a problem.
Djiesse
(DB Genome editor)
#6
Perhaps a silly question, but would revives cancel kills (at least score-wise) in TDM? GoW had this TDM mode where you needed to gib the opponent for the kill to count, that would make the medic a bit more attractive in TDM if you could rob points from the other team.
Dthy
(Dthy)
#7
Sounds like the Kill Comfirmed mode from CoD (except you have revives rather than dogtags) funny how many people never bothered to pick them up 
ImageOmega
(ImageOmega)
#10
They already have several TDM maps and they are sections of the current maps and really laid out well.
That being said, I’d love to be playing some TDM!
iwound
(iwound)
#12
no. i got no fun out of the tdm servers. just randomly spawning to be killed a few secs later.
i dont get a high kill ratio in obj so no real point.
if it where a sniper map setup but all weapons. (split 2 areas by a river) id be very interested. or at least some kind of structure.
ie teams spawn on separate sides and move towards each other. but just random chaotic gameplay isnt for me.
MrFunkyFunk
(MrFunkyFunk)
#13
[QUOTE=iwound;459546]no. i got no fun out of the tdm servers. just randomly spawning to be killed a few secs later.
i dont get a high kill ratio in obj so no real point…[/QUOTE]
It’s true that there wasn’t any real advantage of moving around with your team once you had found a good defendable spot (or we need a system à la UT to reveal campers).
That’s why I’m sure we need a TDM “conquest”, pure tdm will be frustrating for too many players and end up never being played.
It offers great gameplay and the classes will still have meaning. Now you put a 10 min timer per map and you get yourself a hell of hectic & fast paced action.
This is a simple but good example of map in that sort of mode, it’s from the competitive pvp mode of a hybrid mmo (GW2) but I find it very well designed.
It has the right amount of verticality, open & closed spaces.
And guess what SD: it’s made for 5v5 in comp or 8v8 in “pub”.
Bases are only for spawning purposes. Windmill, Clocktower & Mansion are the 3 cap points. Each team has access to a trebuchet, a siege weapon on high ground that can disrupt fights & caps from the opposite team. Those trebuchets can be destroyed for safety by the opposing teams.
Caps award you points income on a determined timer, as do kills.
In DB: you could replace those trebuchets with mounted mgs/cannon on towers or rooftops, making them buildable by an engie.
They should be destroyable by gun fire (or by a fast c4 charge timer).
I’m sorry to make comparison with other game genres, and drift away from a pure tdm mode but I think original ideas could breath some life into a mode that has been forsaken by too many modern lazy fps devs.
stealth6
(stealth6)
#14
Another way to make it more interesting while not adding objectives could be to add more teams. Like make TDM a battle between 3-4 teams. You are then motivated to move position otherwise the other 2 teams could be getting points while you get nothing.
Adding objectives, flags or whatever else works too, but then it’s not really TDM anymore.
MrFunkyFunk
(MrFunkyFunk)
#15
I’ve never experienced any real pure tdm since my quake & ut days nor seen it in popular in competition in modern shooters. And even during that period the map “caps” started to emerge.
Ever since it has almost always been a cheap copy/paste that never really worked because the only goal was to add another mode next to the main one.
The problem with multi teams in TDM is that in pub, with people joining & leaving you’ll have uneven teams all the time.
It’s more easier to balance two teams than four at once imo (6v8 can be solved with one person switching, while it’s a real pain if you end up with two teams with 4 players and the other two teams with 3 & 2 players). I’m not sure either how much work will be put into team identification changes (for 4 teams) and map design to balance it all. And how will it be in comp?
To still make those iterations (ideas some have been mentionning around) part of TDM, we only need to make sure kills still play a vital, even the main, role in the scoring system. The mode rules aren’t sealed in concrete.
chippy
(chippy)
#16
[QUOTE=MrFunkyFunk;459564]I’ve never experienced any real pure tdm since my quake & ut days nor seen it in popular in competition in modern shooters. And even during that period the map “caps” started to emerge.
Ever since it has almost always been a cheap copy/paste that never really worked because the only goal was to add another mode next to the main one.
[/QUOTE]
COD1 had the best TDM I’ve ever played, even though now when I look back it was probably the result of “just adding another mode” in. But DAMN, how well it worked. Same maps, same weapons, just a time limit, and a fixed number of spawn areas. The reason it was so much fun is that tactics could still be applied. “We spawned here, let’s force them towards position X and get them in a spawnrape”. The only way to get out of one was to fight your way out. Obviously people weren’t happy with the whole “spawnrape”, valid reasons at that, idea but for me personally I believe that it’s the whole point in a way. See where the enemy team spawned, work out some tactics on the fly, control certain areas, push forward, get them in a spawnrape and rain hell on them.
I wouldn’t mind trying 3/4 teams out at once in TDM. But Funky is right on this one. If there are enough problems with making 2 teams easily distinguishable, how would they go about making 4 teams that way? From a player point of view it should be, in theory, quite simple. Anyone who isn’t on your own team has the same skin. But what about spectators, casters or people watching “replays”? (if this is what is coming for DB in terms of recording options).
Back on topic: I’d love some TDM action going. Specially before draft games and such to get the reactions going instead of taking up an additional slot on the OBJ/SW servers just to leave after a few minutes. Have the time limit been discussed? In DB I feel like 10 or 15 minutes would be the absolute max timelimit for TDM.
stealth6
(stealth6)
#17
I wasn’t really thinking about comp when I suggested it. As you already said in my mind TDM is more of a “Let’s throw in another gamemode”, more than something for comp.
As for team distinction, I might be oversimplifying this, but thanks to the fact that all the mercs are the same on both teams, wouldn’t it be possible to just change the team color (atm orange / blue) to something else? Green?
As for people leaving and joining, you’re right this is a problem, but if people are actively working together then I imagine them joining the server with 2-3 people to do this. If it’s really just a pub server then imo 2 teams is also fine since nobody is going to be applying that camping tactic properly.
So I guess you can sum it up like this:
- 2 teams is fine for comp imo (then yes the tactic of camping a spot will be popular, but that’s just the way TDM works)
- If you want to speed up the gameplay then add more teams, but this is not very interesting for comp. Also forces the teams to work together better since then 66%-75% of the server is out to kill you. (playing alone becomes a lot harder)
Violator
(Violator)
#18
Q2/Q3 TDM was great fun back in the day but DB DM doesn’t really hold the same interest for me (I also much prefer objective-based play nowadays), as its just a pure frag-fest with no real objective other than frag count - ok for a couple of games but thats it, maybe a more casual player would be happy with it. In Q2 / Q3 for instance a lot of the tactics was around holding and timing pickups (quad, armour etc.) which we don’t have in DB, and then holding areas - adding something like this would make it more interesting but not sure how it would be made different to classic FPS’s.
k1ruaa
(k1ruaa)
#19
[QUOTE=Violator;459633]Q2/Q3 TDM was great fun back in the day but DB DM doesn’t really hold the same interest for me (I also much prefer objective-based play nowadays), as its just a pure frag-fest with no real objective other than frag count - ok for a couple of games but thats it, maybe a more casual player would be happy with it. In Q2 / Q3 for instance a lot of the tactics was around holding and timing pickups (quad, armour etc.) which we don’t have in DB, and then holding areas - adding something like this would make it more interesting but not sure how it would be made different to classic FPS’s.
<Nostalgia />[/QUOTE]
This is exactly what I was about to say. No real point to play DM in dirty Bomb, I think it would be boring really quickly (or something needs to be added).
That being said, some servers with DM to just connect and frag some dudes without any reflection may be fun but different classes become almost useless.
DB is all about objective-based gameplay in my opinion (note that I am speaking for competitive play only).
Seanza
(Seanza)
#20
I vote yes to keep things fresh and funky!
Totally forgot all about TDM. Daytime Whitechapel here I come!