"Super" Players Edge (advance timing?)


(voyager) #1

Summary
After playing ET for a year, I know for sure that some players do better and some do worse than if they all had the same computer on the same network with the same pings/latency/response times, etc. I’ve seen some extreme cases where players do impossibly good, even against really good players on servers with PunkBuster. I would like to know if they are getting game “turn” frames from the server before other players, or if their responses (e.g. mouse click) are somehow given precedence over other players’ responses.

Details
In ET, I’d like to know how a player can start with no XP, yet wipeout everyone (over 30 players), even generals, easily. Yes, I do know that some players are really really good. However, mathematics can be used here to prove something is fishy. There should be a bell curve with fewer and fewer players showing up as we look for better and better players. When you play for a year, and see a large gap between the best players and a handful of “super” players that are much better than the other “best” players, something is fishy.

I spec’d one of the most extreme cases of a “super” player and made a demo. The player was pretty good using many ET tactics correctly, but too good … almost “invisible”, appears to get a remarkable number of headshots using very few bullets, and never loses a 1 on 1 firefight. Actually, only getting killed by arty or direct rifle grenade a couple of times.

Within 2 maps, more than 2/3rds (~20) of the players quit on the EQ (earthquake/earthlink) server. The demo recording doesn’t really give a feel for just how much “better” the player was than everyone else. No one was able to win in a firefight, even though this player was only a 1 star medic with no engy experience (but very quickly had 4 stars in Battle Sense and Light Weapons).

I’ve seen this before, where a player joins an XP save server and just wipes out everyone. I know something is fishy, since there is such a large gap between how good the best players are and the rare player that can wipeout the best players over and over in firefights. I see some clans’ ban lists and the reasons for banning. I know PunkBuster doesn’t catch everything, but I can’t help wondering if this isn’t more an issue of some people simply getting the “edge” because they are seeing things slightly in advance of nearly everyone else, giving them the edge in reaction time (for example allowing them to recover from being surprised and hit first by another player).

In over a year of playing ET, I’ve found these “super” players always have very low pings (I think always less than ~30ms). A few months ago, I read many posts about the sv_fps and snaps settings. I’m wondering if these “super” players are getting more fps from the server than the rest of us, or perhaps simply getting the same number of frames, but slightly in advance of other players. I’m not referring to fps drawn by the video card. I mean game “turn” frames calculated by the server. The server collects information from all the players as best as it can, then it computes where everyone is on the map, what they’re doing, who hit whom, etc. Then a frame is pushed out to all the players, keeping everything synchronized, informing each player of the outcome (e.g. bullet hit your body, not your head, and pushed you a little to the left).

Are they sitting on the LAN of the ET server? Do they have some weird tweaks in their cfg that makes them so much better than the rest of the players?

So when I see these very rare “super” players, they sometimes seem to skip (as if I’m lagging badly), but that might partly be due to my network connection, my ping times, etc. I’ve set my video fps at 44, as I’m using an old Athlon XP 1600 with an Nvidia T200. I’ve seen players with good pings and slower systems do quite good, consistently averaging more than 5 to 1 kills to deaths. My network connection isn’t the greatest. My personal experience in close up firefights with all of the good players is that I can start shooting first, catch them by suprise, but I often die after they shoot only 2-5 shots, even though I get half to a full clip into them first, doing my very best to aim for the head. When I’m farther away, I sometimes get runs of 5-10 kills in a row, and I rarely get best fragger of a map, but never when I’m doing close-up firefights. When I encounter one of these “super” players, sometimes they are nearly invisible to me, skipping across the screen instead of moving a little more smoothly like other players.

More recently, I’ve been leading my aim more (guessing that everything I see is delayed from whereever the server thinks things are), aiming as if what I’m seeing is in the past and too old to aim directly at any moving targets. This has helped noticeably and seems to corroborate my guess about everything I see is behind what many other players see. Players with longer ping times seem to be easier to beat in close 1 on 1 firefights, but the action is usually pretty jerky for me.

This is driving me nuts. How are these “super” players doing this? I’ve spent hours reading and tinkering with my cfg, including cl_timenudge (not really supposed to make a difference if anti-lag is on). A few months ago, I thought I had it. For a few maps starting with 0 XP, I wiped out everyone I pointed my gun at. It worked for a few maps and then quit. I was never able to duplicate that experience, but I got frustrated with the directories of mostly duplicated cfg files. Trying to figure out which ones were active for which server and which ones overloaded the settings in others was too frustrating. Anyway, I’m not so much interested in learning how to use tricks to beat everyone, as I am interested in learning how to detect other players using tricks that allow them to beat everyone in firefights.


(Loffy) #2

Didn’t Raziel write some “aim-tutorial” (for rtcw) some time ago? I hear it’s really good.
Low ping always helps me, in duels in ET.
// Loffy


(meLonF) #3

if you ask me there are no real config tweaks you can use on the latest ET pro servers that will give you a noticable advantage. ETpro with the new Anti-lag / anti warp code does a pretty good job of evening the playing field so long as everyone has a stable connection and < 100 ping.

One setting i find very important is the relationship between fps / maxpackets / resfresh rate. I’m currently have my settings at:
FPS: 76 (capped)
Max packets: 76
Refresh rate: 75hz

having all the values set at the same value (or a multiple) of each other means that each individual ‘frame’ generated by ET directly corresponds to a frame displayed on you monitor and packet sent to the server - it creates very smooth gameplay. If you have to cap at 43fps, try using 76 max packets and 75hz refresh rate and see if it helps smooth out your gameplay. Its very important that you can get 100 steady fps as any deviation will create unsmooth gameplay.


(pgh) #4

What meLon and Loffy said.

Plus, I am guessing this is a public server? Im sure the same player in a 3v3 or 6v6 v a team of the same level wouldnt have performed as well. The difference between what you explained compared to an average setup game is remarkably different.


(Sauron|EFG) #5

It’s also about being in “the zone”, and having a bit of luck (which helps you get into the zone). Sometimes you’re hit by a panzer or rifle nade every time you run around a corner, other times you catch them all with their pants down and magnets in their helmets.


(mendicant) #6

as someone who started ET as a total pc/internet/fps noob, i’ve noticed a few things that have helped me become a better player along the way and sadly its mostly down to hardware

first things first, without a 76 constant fps ur gonna find it hard to be competative, so if u wanna beat these"super" players then u’ll need to buy some new gear, my old 2.57 p4 ,gf4, 1 gb ram would play et 76 constant np, im selling it for £250-300 btw:D

also i noticed getting a 19"crt with 85 hx refresh improved my gameplay over my 15" LCD
a good *corded mouse well help too, as will a good mousepad(http://www.qpad.se)
as will a good connection

although my biggest improvement woz joining a clan with players who are better than me, their tips and tricks wil help alot and if ur lucky they’ll be able to help u out with ur config

as for these “super” players, its safe to assume their nerds that play the game 24/7 and hence they’ve become pretty good at it, or, as u claim their pings are sub30, that they are packet laming laggy scum,…or their cheating in which case it’s fun trying to beat their aimbot or whatever their using

oh and always play on etpro servers, and try to avoid xp save servers as good players will get too much of an advantage after a map or too


(voyager) #7

Thanks everyone! I read. I study. I learn. Now I know more about where to play, how to play, and how to spot “problem” players.

Several facts I forgot to mention:

  1. In all cases, I’m referring only to non-ET Pro public servers with Punkbuster enabled.

  2. The “super” players I’m referring to are medics using SMG only (MP40 or Thompson) in firefights with others of the same class also with SMG. I know that a rifle grenade exploded on your head doesn’t mean the other guy has some sort of advantage.

  3. I have never seen a “super” player on an ET Pro server. I’ve never seen someone that was just incredibly better than the other “best” players on the server. My more recent experience with ET Pro is what proved to me that something is really fishy with the small number of “super” players I’ve seen on non-ET Pro public servers, although I do believe less lag, low ping times, high quality of network connection, “magic” FPS, etc. can still give signficant advantages to ET Pro players.

  4. Yes, the servers I’m referring to are accessible to the public, and have always had at least 24 active players, typically with XP save enabled (but not always).

Conclusions

  1. ET Pro rocks. Get it. Play it. Dump the regular ET. Tell your friends to upgrade their servers to ET Pro. ET Pro blocks many hacks and “unfair” advantages possible with non-ET Pro. See http://www.splashdamage.com/index.php?name=pnPHPbb2&file=viewtopic&t=9213

  2. There are some hacks possible to make yourself into a “super” player with the abilities I described in my first post. Several of these hacks no longer work (either fixed by the last update to ET, or now blocked by Punkbuster). Some of the “hacks” require ownership/control of the server.

  3. ET Pro seems immune to the “super” players’ competitive “advantages” I’ve witnessed. The only thing I still don’t understand about ET Pro is how even a 4 star covert can snipe a 4 star medic running randomly across an open field. Covert is the class I’m least familiar with. Even when I have 4 star covert, I never stand a chance at sniping someone in 2 shots over a long distance if they are not running smoothly in a predictable straight line.

  4. Someone with 76+fps computer with sub 30ms ping times (especially a player sitting on the same network/data center as a public server) that has no hardware delays (e.g. hardware firewall -> switch -> their computer) combined with some of the semi-legal tweaks and memorized knowledge of non-ET Pro hitboxes (see http://www.et-center.com/?page=articles&id=43) might have an incredibly unfair advantage over the other players lacking the same hardware/hitbox knowledge advantages. However, I have seen one “super” player pass along something (either cfg settings, knowledge … something) that transformed one top notch player to become almost as good as the “super” player within a couple days, and he claims his hardware was pretty sad (not even the 3 year-old Nvidia T200 level).

  5. Any delay caused by any hardware (network, firewall, etc.) between your computer and the server really does harm your performance in close-up firefights. If it doesn’t, then the server is compensating, and the “super” players could use hardware in between their computer and the server to tweak the packets and timing … I imagine there are some “optimal” delays that could be artificially introduced? Maybe the one player in particular that I referred to in my first post was using a hardware cheat (hardware filtering of the packets using another computer in between the client and server).

Questions

  1. Oh, and I think setting maxpackets as high as you can is better. Allows from dropped / lost packets, and duplicates (normally enabled for those not playing on a LAN). I can’t get better than 43fps consistently, even with a bunch of settings dummied down, so I hope the 43/76/125fps “magic” settings are still applicable to ET Pro?

  2. Seems like using cl_timenudge might help with ET Pro? … but is there a legal an “Unlagged” module to help compensate for the problems caused by using cl_timenudge with negative numbers?

  3. Seems like “PLEASE BE AWARE THE FOLLOWING IS INCORRECT FOR POST 3.1 VERSIONS OF ETPRO USING b_realHead > 0” in the post referenced above means I need to check this setting before playing on ET Pro servers so that I know where the heck to aim! Is there a public console command to show the setting of b_realHead?

Thanks a bazillion everyone. Finally getting real answers from people who know. I shoulda come to the source of ET a long time ago …


(SCDS_reyalP) #8
  1. Seems like “PLEASE BE AWARE THE FOLLOWING IS INCORRECT FOR POST 3.1 VERSIONS OF ETPRO USING b_realHead > 0” in the post referenced above means I need to check this setting before playing on ET Pro servers so that I know where the heck to aim! Is there a public console command to show the setting of b_realHead?

the command
pb_cvarval
will show you the value of almost any cvar on the server. In general, there are only a few servers running b_realhead, since etpro 3.1.x isn’t public beta yet.

As for the rest of your post, I’d say you are jumping to a number of unsupported conculsions. Certainly, there are cheats which are not picked up by PB, which are blocked or caught by etpro. There are also cheats which aren’t caught by either. There are also players who are insanely good, who perform just as well at LAN events, where they absolutely could not be cheating.

Timenudge isn’t a cheat. Do whatever you like with it. I doubt it will help you in any way.

All else being equal, higher maxpackets should be better. However, having maxpackets > your fps doesn’t make any sense. Saturating your upload is also a bad idea.

IMO, tweaks don’t make the player. Nor does XP. No amount of tweaking will suddenly turn your average player into a top level player, any more than a fancy car will turn you into a top F1 driver.


(mendicant) #9

IMO, tweaks don’t make the player. Nor does XP. No amount of tweaking will suddenly turn your average player into a top level player, any more than a fancy car will turn you into a top F1 driver.

well damon hill became f1 champion in the awesome renault, and his shit:D…


(BondyBoy007) #10

I’m sorry, what did Damon Hill’s shit do again? :drink:


(blushing_bride) #11

XP means bugger all in my experience. A super player on 0xp will rape a meduim skilled player on 1000XP every time without breaking a sweat. If a high skilled clan player joins a server populated by medium skilled players (the sort i would expect to find on a 24 slot XPsave server) then i would expect them to rape everyone and probably get accused of cheating (i often find thses super players also have super attitude problems as well so dont think im sticking up for them and im certainly not one of them)


(Sauron|EFG) #12

Yes you are, you just don’t have the attitude. :wink:


(next_ghost) #13

I can play very well against very good players with my 30fps and I could as well a year ago when my ping was ussually high over 300ms. Framerate can slightly limit ur performance but high framerate doesn’t add to ur skill.


(mendicant) #14

depends on what arena ur playing in, my idea of “competative” may be different to ur assumption of “competative”

fact is, 2 skilled opponents with different fps’s(30 v 76 for example) will see the player with the higher fps come out on top more often, esp with regards to moving opponents


(TAngelo) #15

Yep, I’ve also encountered these kinds of “superplayers” on a number of occasions, and wondered… You’ll have really good players who get to about 500XP at the end of a campaign. Then there’s the elite who get to 800 or 900, often medics or fopses (who can hand stuff to others, heal others, get airstrike kills and so on).

Then there’s the guys who at the end of a campaign have 1600XP. If you’ve played with these guys more than once on the same server, you’ll know they can easily tip the balance in favour of the team they’re on. Concretely, the team they’re on will almost certainly win. Personally I feel that if you’re that good, it’s probably best if you try and find a clan or try to play competitively, rather than play on pubs where most people will be no match for you in the slightest. It does get tiresome to encounter such a player over and over and get wiped out every single time. I think the least you could do if you’re that good is not pick the medic class, in any case, but sadly I find they generally do. Probably best to disconnect and find another server, then.


(SCDS_reyalP) #16

XP is a rather poor measuring stick.


(ouroboro) #17

i’ve found that many top clan players can’t hang on a spammy pub with 30 players and instant recharge Shrub or what have you. most of the changes to etpro have been intended to make the game easier and less spammy (which is a good thing IMO), and to basically dumb the game down to a test of aim. he with the best aim wins. they top players don’t like artillery, rifle grenades, lots of mines, long travel time from offensive spawns, strong defense…

so all that was more or less gimped in favor of SMG duels where the best aim wins and the lesser aimer has no real alternatives in his toolbox to escape the situation, and where offense is pretty much guaranteed the win - assuming roughly equal teams - so that a time can be set in the stopwatch. they want rtcw, they want everything added by ET either removed or gimped into submission, and they want the return of rtcw aspects which ET removed and which were also geared towards aim being the final deciding factor (rtcw mausers almost made a return for example).

i’m not for a moment complaining - all these changes are fine with me because i’m a decent shot and i can’t stand dying to a rifle nader when i “won” the encounter but he twitched with his last breath and took me with him - just as one example of how unskilled players are able to hang with the skilled aimers in etmain (arty being the other glaring example of whoredom). all i’m saying is that players in clans who compete (of which i am one, sortof :P) need to be intellectually honest with themselves (like i am) and call it like it is: we generally don’t really like this game. we miss rtcw but that game is dying and ET is free, so we whine to bani and he kisses it and makes it all better so we don’t get n00bed endlessly and can enjoy the fruits of our labors at improving our SMG aim.

facts, baby. i dare anyone to refute me. ignore the stuff about turning et into rtcw, i know ppl will leap on that and deny it in order to avoid my greater point, which is that clans wan’t all spam removed from a game which was inherently built around spam (which again, i also hate, but am honest enough to recognize).


(Ifurita) #18

So lets leave the clans out of it. Why do you want excessive spam? I have zero fun on XP-save shrub servers where mortar rounds are falling like rain into the rear axis spawn on Goldrush. I have zero fun running like a mad little lemming on Fuel Dump, thru panzer, arty, and grenade spam, only to get caught by fresh axis respawns that happen to pop out right next to the objective. Yeah, it’s a blast on maps like Temple, where the axis can just spam the tank and reduce the game to 30 minutes of axis shooting allied fish in the barrel. Yeah, bring on the spam, I’ll just leave


(Demo) #19

ouroboro you wont find many top clan players on shrub servers with 15 guys in each team.

Further more dont use xp as a skill’o’meter. And if a person with 0xp aims down a general with 2500xp without loosing much health that is because the person with 0xp has better aim.

If someone can aim down everyone on a server - he has better aim then each and onse of the other players, nothing strange in him winning all the fights then…

There are really sick aimers out that that aims down those superplayers without loosing the slightest health. Sad that not so many people ever gets the chanse to face them - that would probably stop all the cheat accucastions and woah nice aim - he must have supertweaked graphics and haxxed network-settings.

As a last note, dont pay much attention to your ping. With the latest et-pro everything under 150ms is perfectly accetable - especially when playing public.


(]UBC[ McNite) #20

hm my 2 cents…

First you might ve recorded a player using the nc-bot that was out some time ago… it had headshot-bot and wallhack, so it was pretty impossible to die using it properly. We tested it on a public shrub and got ratios like 60 kills, 4 deaths, 75 headshots. Then we reported it to punkbuster, it should be banned by now.
Second all of the above about very good players entering a shrub-server even with good players is TRUE… The difference in skill on a good or very good shrub server compared to a good or very good ETPro-server is REMARKABLY. When I got bored of shrub and campaign and entered servers as bio (UK) where mainly competitive gamer chilled out I found myself dead A LOT… k/d ratio of 1:4 and so on, and I considered myself a good player (usually among highest XP on shrubservers and campaign etc). Now when I enter a shrub for fun the players on there have not much fun :smiley: This is mostly down to lots of practice and getting a real good aim together with a real good knowledge of the maps and what u can do on them, where u can do and and when. Call it experience.

@ ouroboro: yea, sadly comp players don’t consider the opportunities ET gave compared to RtCW (new classes/weapons). Boiling it down to aim with SMG only is reducing the game way too much though imo and I got the slight suspicion that the uberleet just can’t stand they have been in the wrong place at the wrong time when they get artied, panzered or naded (I know what I m talking about, I got kicked from a well-known swedish server for using riflenade VERY efficient). I think they fail to acknowledge skill with those weapons too.