Summer Squash Part II - Upcoming Balance Changes

(watsyurdeal) #81

Something about DPS I don’t think anyone has considered.

We really should be figuring out how many bullets can be fired in under a second to get our dps, not just using raw math.

For example, say our rate of fire is 333, and our damage is 40.

1000/333 = 3.003003003003003

So including the first shot fired, we can fire 4 shots in under a second, our dps is actually 160.

But Dox is right, it’s just a paper statistic but it helps to try and have everything within similar parameters for DPS and TTK, for balancing reasons, I’ll have a whole thread on it sometime later.

(Szakalot) #82

WHAT? Do…do you personally just hate this gun? Or screwed your results when you first used this gun?

27dmg per shot, Huge 135 DPS, plenty of 20 rounds, very stable spread after numerous accumulated buffs that can even allow you to spam 10~15 shots, at least lower recoil than Grandeur is GARBAGE??

This gun is even much stronger than K-121!

Strongest, Highest firepower gun that its last conscience : High recoil large spread

is going to be buffed to make it omni-purpose weapon just like burst rifles are what SD is going to do with Dreiss right now.

[/quote]

dreiss is in the limbo zone of worst of two worlds:

  • slow RoF making it harder in open fights
  • alpha damage not high enough to benefit from peek-a-boo tactics (grandeur, shotgun, sniperrifles).

This and mediocre accuracy make for a gun that is jack-of-all-trades but inferior to optimal guns for particular scenarios.

(Xenithos) #83

B-But, you heard them! It’s underperformawhatevering. :naughty:

Honestly, I can’t wait to actually KILL more people than I already do as Phoenix.

(Xenithos) #84

[quote=“canaryField;202350”]
1: No matter how you nerf/buff Sparks, she is still too overpowered: YUP. Sparks is still OP. Her REVIVR is like a Hell’s Bow. I know that her loadout is literally poop, which is even useless even in point-blank range, but when you tried to kill her in MEDIUM-long range, she will still pwn you with the Revive Rifle or finish you up with her peashooter. The ONLY thing that I still feel pity for her is her useless-ity of healing dummies, but since you just buff-ed her up, please remove her before I catch cancer because of the Tracer-Vaseline-Medic-thing Monster.
2: Nerf Redeye=Phantom is God. AGAIN: The only thing I love Redeye is the Phantom Detector which make me feel like being covered in safety while the whole world suffers from a zombie virus. Even better, I can always spam the IR Googles if Phantom is hanging around. But now… Three words: PLEASE. NERF. PHANTOM.
I have scissors![/quote]

Holy crap, did someone just say that Phantom was a God? And that he needed to be nerfed? Like… what?
And dude, Sparks isn’t OP at range anymore unless you’re being STUPID. Only Amazing Sparks players with tons of hours on her can hit at the long range, and if you’re moving it STILL won’t hit. Also, if you get hit by a decent Sparks, get out of her LoS. That simple. Her Revivr has falloff range that’s honestly abyssmal for her Revivr Damage. She was meant to be a sniper medic, and that’s about all she is sometimes. I’ve only seen two people consistently play her well: Zorla, and Soferir.

(ThiagoJaqueta) #85

Nerf Phantom? LMAAAAOOOOOOO

Compared to other Assaults and Recons he’s the worst combat effective merc, which is funny, because that’s pretty much his job, kill people.

(doxjq) #86

Sparks OP, Phantom a god.

(DankBeretField) #87

[quote=“Xenithos;202366”][quote=“canaryField;202350”]
1: No matter how you nerf/buff Sparks, she is still too overpowered: YUP. Sparks is still OP. Her REVIVR is like a Hell’s Bow. I know that her loadout is literally poop, which is even useless even in point-blank range, but when you tried to kill her in MEDIUM-long range, she will still pwn you with the Revive Rifle or finish you up with her peashooter. The ONLY thing that I still feel pity for her is her useless-ity of healing dummies, but since you just buff-ed her up, please remove her before I catch cancer because of the Tracer-Vaseline-Medic-thing Monster.
2: Nerf Redeye=Phantom is God. AGAIN: The only thing I love Redeye is the Phantom Detector which make me feel like being covered in safety while the whole world suffers from a zombie virus. Even better, I can always spam the IR Googles if Phantom is hanging around. But now… Three words: PLEASE. NERF. PHANTOM.
I have scissors![/quote]

Holy crap, did someone just say that Phantom was a God? And that he needed to be nerfed? Like… what?
And dude, Sparks isn’t OP at range anymore unless you’re being STUPID. Only Amazing Sparks players with tons of hours on her can hit at the long range, and if you’re moving it STILL won’t hit. Also, if you get hit by a decent Sparks, get out of her LoS. That simple. Her Revivr has falloff range that’s honestly abyssmal for her Revivr Damage. She was meant to be a sniper medic, and that’s about all she is sometimes. I’ve only seen two people consistently play her well: Zorla, and Soferir.
[/quote]

thx but EVERYTIME I meet a Sparks, $#!t happened to me. Seem like EVERYONE played at Sparks is a professional Vasilli for me. And after some consideration, Phantom is quite weak now. But thx for the breakdown Xenithos, it (barely) helped me.

P.S: someone teach me how 2 counter sparks

(BlackboltLW) #88

[quote=“canaryField;202404”]

thx but EVERYTIME I meet a Sparks, $#!t happened to me. Seem like EVERYONE played at Sparks is a professional Vasilli for me. And after some consideration, Phantom is quite weak now. But thx for the breakdown Xenithos, it (barely) helped me.

P.S: someone teach me how 2 counter sparks[/quote]

She’s pretty much weak, just get up close and personal once you encounter her alone, or target her first while engaging in a firefight.

Also don’t forget to stay on the move, like the tutorial once said,

“A stationary target is a dead target”

(doxjq) #89
  • start using Stark.
  • git gud with it.
  • 1 hit Sparks almost every time you see her.
  • gg 3ez.

As troll as this post sounds, this is literally all I do now :expressionless: It’s really not hard to take down a Sparks at all.

(Tanker_Ray) #90

@ThaiSan

Oops. Wrote it wrong. (Update only nerfs when you have to heal your team mates as fast as you can, not your self. Sorry.)

Yeah you are right about that, totally agreed, but I still think the nerf is so subtle that we won’t even going to feel that unless we land all med packs as direct hit at pubs.

meh, may be they should’ve buffed Sparks’ small med pack’s direct hit to 20HP bonus to make it same as large med pack.

@Eox

Hochfir actually reloads 0.2 sec faster(1.7sec same as Crotzni.) than SMG-9(1.9 sec.).

3dmg higher means you don’t have to land more shots than 9 dmg have to.

So I don’t think higher RoF means more accuracy. single dmg per shot is huge part of DB, as more sudden dmg you can do means, you are making enemy’s own HP calculation harder just like explosives do. If headshot, 24 and 18 dmg difference is much more significant.

About the aim punch part you mentioned, yes it is right about MP5’s high RoF wobbles enemy’s spread, but remember higher base dmg cause more aim punch per shot, which isn’t that much of a difference since 12 dmg will cause more of it per shot.

9dmg is somehow weak as hell, so easy to run away from it. Like @Xenithos and SD said(Based on their own statistics), those numerous accuracy wasn’t enough to it because lowest firepower was never changed.

SMG-9 is also 2nd most accurate gun among all SMGs, so I don’t think this will be a problem if SMG-9 receives another accuracy buff.

Also, SMG-9 loadouts have more gun augments than MP5. There are some loadouts that are aggressive with MP5 like Phoenix’s KE73, but he just can’t live without healing pulse augment.

Eventhough we can use Drilled or Spares with MP5, why not use KeK-10 and Crotzni with those augments, when the fire power is much better?

@Szakalot

27dmg per shot.

300RPM is over decent enough to punish any enemies in front.

Tbh, I have to say Dreiss nowdays is more OP than 25dmg + 360 RPM era.

I’ve killed so many Proxies with single headshot + body shot.

Furthermore when you can shoot this gunover 10 rounds with full RoF, this gun’s accuracy is no longer mediocre.

I just can’t disagree more.

Not talking about you, but these people whine about MP5’s numerous accuracy buff, but saying Dreiss that has much powerful dmg and DPS which NEEDS worse accuracy than other guns for balance keep getting those buff is OK???

Oh gosh.

@Dox

Did I ONLY mentioned DPS?

ignored the whole part of over dmg part and talking about ‘paper DPS is freakin subtle thing!’…

ok?

Then I gotta say why the freak does everyone does not care DPS when discussing how effective a gun is.

DPS isn’t the whole part of the gun, yes! But no matter how you shoot well, no matter how much dmg the gun puts in,

that so called ‘paper’ DPS is the BASE firepower that you can expand.

And it NEVER lies when you land all shots to enemies, or pure DPS fight happens when each of decent players are shooting each other.

Do you think Hochfir is going to win a firepower fight against Crotzni??(Unless MP5 user shoots better than Crotzni user. Let’s pretend they both have a same skill.)

About Dreiss, do not speak about the gun just because you’ve never seen a high skilled player with that gun in AUS server.

I’ve never seen anyone good with PDP-70 besides me in Asia server.(It really is, as I always stay in Asia server.) Does that mean PDP is garbage?

I don’t want to speak about player skills while discussing weapon efficiency, but IF you really want to see those kind of player, then I can admit, me my self can show you how strong the gun if you come visit me with Stark. Yes, I am confident.

(Xyfurion) #91

[quote=“stayfreshshoe;32120”]Hey all,
Timik-47

The Timik-47 has been lagging slightly behind the M4. While it is intended to be harder to control, it should be initially more accurate. We’ve reduced the starting bullet spread a little more to emphasise this, while also toning down the vertical kick after each shot, to make it a little more viable when ironsighting.

[LIST][]Reduced starting bullet spread by ~6%
[]Reduced vertical recoil by ~4%[/LIST]
[/quote]

Oooh I am liking these changes. I love the timik a lot more now!

(neverplayseriou) #92

@THUNDA uhh what? the simeon is insanely accurate as long as you’re not spamming it like a total retard, it’s an amazing pistol already…

(Dr_Plantboss) #93

[quote=“Jokder;201914”]Why no MK46 changes SD? WHHYYYYYYY?

But on a different note, these are superb changes! Good on you SD![/quote]

Because the MK46 is perfectly balanced. You just need to learn how to use it.

(SaulWolfden) #94

[quote=“Dr_Plantboss;202457”][quote=“Jokder;201914”]Why no MK46 changes SD? WHHYYYYYYY?

But on a different note, these are superb changes! Good on you SD![/quote]

Because the MK46 is perfectly balanced. You just need to learn how to use it.[/quote]

Nope, it was nerfed unjustly when it was released again because for some reason they were acting like Fragger’s K-121 wasn’t buffed to not be trash tier.

(Kudrow) #95

[quote=“Dr_Plantboss;202457”][quote=“Jokder;201914”]Why no MK46 changes SD? WHHYYYYYYY?

But on a different note, these are superb changes! Good on you SD![/quote]

Because the MK46 is perfectly balanced. You just need to learn how to use it.[/quote]

Hey @Dr_Plantboss
I don’t agree with you that Thudner’s machineguun MK46 is balanced. Before few weeks when Thunder was in free rotation I played with him. That machinegun MK46 is good only against Aura/Sparks/Proxy because they have very little HP. Numberous of times I tried 1 on 1 in medium-close range and I would run out of HP (even that he has 170HP) or I would manage to survive but with very little HP. I admit that I am not pro with Thunder but considerating that he has so much HP and that he has a machinegun he is pretty weak, I mean - his machinegun is weak. When you are firing at the enemy with that gun you have a feeling that you shot paintball bullets at him causing no damage. Rate of fire for that weapon is good, but simply because of recoil and little damage that weapon isn’t so effective like Fraggers K-121. When Thunder was on free rotation I was trying to avoid playing with him, but sometimes I had to because of missions. Anyway, he deserves a buff in that weapon if he wants to be competitive with Fragger. That’s my opinion.

(Tanker_Ray) #96

@neverplayserious

MY goodness, did I said simeon is NOT amazing?

How many words do I need to explain to support what I’ve stated.

Already mentioned it has much greater accuracy, so it just need more gap between S/W.

S/W’s dmg is greater than Simeon =/= Simeon sucks.

What is wrong with you with the disagreeing?

@Dr_Plantboss

ANY gun is blanced with the mighty slow of conc.

It LOOKS like the gun is working fine because 15 sec of slow requires no high-skilled aiming AT ALL.

As 2014 CB player, just like @SaulWolfden mentioned that gun was nerfed without ANY proper reasons, and lacking firepower part is totally shadowed after conc’s slow is working properly after May’s Aimee/2nd loadout patch.

Giant spread is working as balancing part nowadays?

How will you explain shooting slowed target with Timik and Stark. Or even OTHER guns if Thunder could have access.

Balancing machine guns just by skill’s CC is total BS.

Remember you can kill any targets with ANY GUN when he/she is completely slowed orboth slowed/flashed.

(The_N00Ba) #97

as a side note that grenade also should be able to do a fine job against the jump spammers.

(deftMoon) #98

update being this week u mean friday, since everything is last min

(shadowphoniex) #99

I swear the PDP players really gonna hurt my phoenix so bad.Also MOAR CAULDEN BUFF. :smiley:

(hoyes) #100

Oh my my my, people think the MK46 is fine. Well, on paper it is, due to its high dps and mag cap, and somewhat low reload speed( for an lmg). But in practice it is absolutely horrible. @Dr_Plantboss I can use the MK46, it is my most used weapon in the entire game, and Thunder is my most played merc by about a 40 hour difference between the second. The Mk46 is extremely powerful when ADS and against concussed enemies, but with hipfire,the spread increases wayyyy too much, which means it is actually not that effective aiming at the head vs. high hp mercs, as bullets easily miss their head, effectively increasing its ttk dramatically and easily allowing the other person in a duel to win.

Now the reason it does not seem weak is because of how short the cooldown of the conc is, therefore meaning that people that use Thunder generally tend to throw the concs as much as possible, as there is no downside to doing so, and the MK46 shines due to its ability to easily take down the enemies that are faced with the slow due to the large mag, and the user doesn’t even have to worry about aim.

The Mk46 needs its 12 damage back, to make the large spread justified, and to bring bqck its killing potential. But, this has to be accompanied with a cooldown increase to the conc of maybe 18 seconds ( a 3 second increase), which would make it about the same as fraggers nade. Only then will Thunder be balanced(as long as the current flash effect stays).