[Suggestion] Phantom Rework/Ability Idea

(Faraleth) #1

So I think we can all still agree Phantom is in a fairly useless spot compared to other mercs. Sure, he’s technically “balanced” in terms of his fire-power and ability “power”, however he’s such a mixed bag of different things he doesn’t really excel in anything great, unlike other mercs. So I came up with the following suggestions on how I would like to see him changed (Reall ALL the points, because while some may seem obvious nerfs, there are also buffs too and I will try and explain them all):

Remove his shield.
The player who spots an enemy cloaked Phantom should be “rewarded” by being able to get off the first shot and damage him, for being vigilant and prepared. His shield gives him too much of a “fail safe” in the case of being seen and currently just encourages very poor tanking while swinging his Katana.

Make him slightly less visible and the clock “whistle” quieter.
To compensate for shield loss, he is currently far too visible and his cloak whistle you can hear coming from a mile off. Allowing him to be more sneaky will be a good compromise for scrapping the shield, and give him more viability as the “sneaky”/stealth merc he was designed to be.

Increase his speed to 420 (up from 410).
Another minor compromise for losing his shield. This movement speed is on par with Fletcher and Vassili, so I feel it makes him a little faster to provide quicker escapes/sneaking, but not so much so that he would be able to keep up with the higher speed mercs.

Change his primary weapons to: Empire 9, MP-400 and Tolen MP.
His current primary weapons are incredibly powerful, and I think giving him these weapons instead will help with his speed and mean they are more of a “last resort”. This nerf is also to compensate for the final ability/rework below, that I think will help him a lot. - Some people have made some very valid points on the forum and Reddit, and have changed my mind on this. Perhaps changing his weapons to machine pistols isn’t the best idea after all. xD

Secondary ability: Cloak EMP.
This ability would require Phantom to get close to whatever he wishes to use it on (similar to Phoenix’s heal) and depending on how much of his cloak COOLDOWN charge he has remaining - not the actual time on his clock - is how long the EMP lasts for (ie. if there is 6 seconds left on the cloak cooldown, that is how long the EMP charge will deactive the target).

The EMP burst depletes the rest of his cloak instantly, making him visible and vulnerable, but will TEMPORARILY deactivate any of the following for the remaining time on his cloak: C4 charge (the charge will just pause, not defuse), EV (takes no damage, it just can’t move), turrets, healing stations, Sparks REVIVR, Red Eye IR goggles, heartbeat sensor, and possibly other devices I am forgetting - Note: The charge does NOT stack. If another Phantom does this, it simply overwrites the remaining time on the target with the new disable time (for example, if something has 4 seconds left and another Phantom uses a 6 second EMP burst, the time on it will be 6 seconds, not 10).

I think this kind of functionality will allow him to sneak in and be FAR more useful. Delaying a C4 charge to help defuse would be great, and his cloak allows him to sneak up close and let it off - so it’s not as powerful as a straight up “EMP grenade” and requires more thought/planning, but can be very powerful when used correctly.

This is just how I would personally like to see Phantom changed… And maybe - give him Katana on all loadouts. That would be nice too.

  • Faraleth
(gg2ez) #2

I agree with all except “change primaries” because KEK is love, KEK is live.

Edit: Instead of just a plain and simple “make cloak stronger”, @Rosenkreuz came up with the idea that the closer Phantom is to enemies, the weaker the cloak - thus making him more adept at flanking but still counterable.

Thoughts?

(HeadStrikeR !) #3

Why not make him Objective Specialist? :]

(gg2ez) #4
(Ferrett321) #5

@Faraleth I imagine Phantom would look rather awkward with the tiny machine pistols.

The EMP charge (in which you suggested) has great potential for team synergy, Stopping EV’s to allow ally skyhammers and arty’s to rain hell on the stationary EV. Same goes for the C4, pausing C4 for x amount of time allowing for teammates to defuse could make for some clutch moments.

TL:DR; EMP charge idea is great, Guns may look awkward (IMO).

(Lapfinou) #6

I have mixed feelings about the primary weapon change. That would make Phantom still really bad at high competitive level as he could not compete with any other assault merc and yet still lacks the power and recon potential of Vassili.

That EMP ability is very very interesting. I dunno if it is that a good idea to make it working on objectives (I’d rather see this ability on another yet unreleased objective merc).
Something I was thinking about it is that theEMP would be used like Phoenix’s heal and could be used to prevent enemy mercs from using their abilities during a little amount of time or to increase their cooldowns, and even destroy / damage enemy deployables.

(Haki) #7

[quote=“Ferrett321;95383”]@Faraleth I imagine Phantom would look rather awkward with the tiny machine pistols.

TL:DR; EMP charge idea is great, Guns may look awkward (IMO).[/quote]

you mean like in the Dirty Bomb Trailer, where all he shot was a semiautomatic pistol ?

(terminal) #8
  1. He is not “too visible” unless you run around the map like a madmen
  2. Shield is fine, it drains cloak away.
  3. Whistle is quiet if you walk/stand still
  4. Phantom should be using his melee as a last resort, not his guns.
  5. This ability sounds really unfun and situational. Instead, he should have an ability that marks everyone near him for a short while (since the cloak already tells you when an enemy is near by giving you xp). After all, he isn’t the spy from TF2.
  6. Currently, yes, giving a Katana on all loadouts would be good. But what I was thinking is giving non-katana loadouts better augments to compensate for the loss of a good melee.

I was thinking they could make Phantom’s recon ability compare to Vassili’s recon ability like how Phoenix’s healing ability compare to Sawbonez’s healing ability.
Phoenix heals everyone in an AoE of maximum 80 hp while Sawbonez can heal individuals to their max health.
Phantom could activate an ability and every enemy player that is near him gets marked for a short time while Vassili can throw a little heartbeat sensor to mark players in a set area.

This likely won’t happen anyways because Phantom’s killing potential is already really great (if you know how to play him) and his cloak already gives off xp when you get near someone while invisible but doesn’t mark anything. So in a way, Phantom teaches you to use your mic to communicate.

(gg2ez) #9

[quote=“terminal;95393”]1. He is not “too visible” unless you run around the map like a madmen
2. Shield is fine, it drains cloak away.
3. Whistle is quiet if you walk/stand still
4. Phantom should be using his melee as a last resort, not his guns.
5. This ability sounds really unfun and situational. Instead, he should have an ability that marks everyone near him for a short while (since the cloak already tells you when an enemy is near by giving you xp). After all, he isn’t the spy from TF2.
6. Currently, yes, giving a Katana on all loadouts would be good. But what I was thinking is giving non-katana loadouts better augments to compensate for the loss of a good melee.

I was thinking they could make Phantom’s recon ability compare to Vassili’s recon ability like how Phoenix’s healing ability compare to Sawbonez’s healing ability.
Phoenix heals everyone in an AoE of maximum 80 hp while Sawbonez can heal individuals to their max health.
Phantom could activate an ability and every enemy player that is near him gets marked for a short time while Vassili can throw a little heartbeat sensor to mark players in a set area.

This likely won’t happen anyways because Phantom’s killing potential is already really great (if you know how to play him) and his cloak already gives off xp when you get near someone while invisible but doesn’t mark anything. So in a way, Phantom teaches you to use your mic to communicate.[/quote]

Devs already said no to a spotting ability. The EMP would be far from situational and it would open up opportunities for team synergy. As you said, Phantom’s killing potential is fine but it won’t get him picked in premades.

(JJMAJR) #10

No EMPs. It’s stupidly overpowered regardless of how you slice it. Imagine phantom rushes! Honestly there’s three ways for the Phantom to go down:

Fragile Speedster
-Remove shield
+Cloak visibility reduced to 5% opacity
+Increase speed to 470
-Decrease health to 100

Stone Wall
+Increase health to 150
-Decrease speed to 385
+Cloak visibility reduced to 5% opacity
-Shield only provides damage reduction up to 50%.

Fucking Pest
-Remove shield
+Cloak visibility reduced to 5% opacity
+Objective specialist
-Reduce health to 100
-Reduce speed to 385
-Nope.

(Eox) #11

Aside from changing his primaries, I agree with everything.

(terminal) #12

[quote=“gg2ez;95400”][quote=“terminal;95393”]1. He is not “too visible” unless you run around the map like a madmen
2. Shield is fine, it drains cloak away.
3. Whistle is quiet if you walk/stand still
4. Phantom should be using his melee as a last resort, not his guns.
5. This ability sounds really unfun and situational. Instead, he should have an ability that marks everyone near him for a short while (since the cloak already tells you when an enemy is near by giving you xp). After all, he isn’t the spy from TF2.
6. Currently, yes, giving a Katana on all loadouts would be good. But what I was thinking is giving non-katana loadouts better augments to compensate for the loss of a good melee.

I was thinking they could make Phantom’s recon ability compare to Vassili’s recon ability like how Phoenix’s healing ability compare to Sawbonez’s healing ability.
Phoenix heals everyone in an AoE of maximum 80 hp while Sawbonez can heal individuals to their max health.
Phantom could activate an ability and every enemy player that is near him gets marked for a short time while Vassili can throw a little heartbeat sensor to mark players in a set area.

This likely won’t happen anyways because Phantom’s killing potential is already really great (if you know how to play him) and his cloak already gives off xp when you get near someone while invisible but doesn’t mark anything. So in a way, Phantom teaches you to use your mic to communicate.[/quote]

Devs already said no to a spotting ability. The EMP would be far from situational and it would open up opportunities for team synergy. As you said, Phantom’s killing potential is fine but it won’t get him picked in premades. [/quote]
I mean, the EMP can only be used under certain situations therefore, it’s situational. :expressionless:
I still think that Phantom has the potential to take the engineer slot in competitive teams. You just don’t need that faster defuse/arm unless you’re trying to clutch.

(Rurre) #13

Emp sounds interesting. Being able to destroy enemy deployables and disable merc abilities for a few seconds sounds good. I’m not so sure about objectives though, either it should be a smaller percentage compared to merc disables (say max 2-3 seconds). Or it should not allow the c4 to be defused during that time. It feels too powerful considering it’s already really easy for an engineer to do it with a bit of cover and the extra seconds would help clean up the site but still not stop a successful defense that crumbles at the last second.

I’m also not sure about it draining all the cloak. I agree with it mostly but on the other hand it seems to make phantom a bit of a suicidal disabler, you run in, disable everyone and get gunned down. It’s a new type of martyrdom basically unless you play it smart and flank, disable and run away. Even then you’re in danger of getting shot.

Interesting concept regardless, I’d like to see how this works out ingame. I disagree with primary changes though, and I definitely wouldn’t want to see phantom be an engineer. Mechanic - sure, but not full out engineer.

(RyePanda) #14

EMP shouldn’t be able to affect objectives (EV, C4). Other than that, I’m cool with it.

([SDS]DOA) #15

Big YES to removing the shield and upping run speed. Right now Phantom is a killing merc with less HP than the other killing mercs, and basically same run speed. Look at Nader. According to the wiki, she has above average HP and above average movement speed. Fletcher has the same HP as Phantom, but more run speed. No one seems to think that makes him OP.

I don’t think the cloak needs to be stronger. As is, you’re nearly invisible while walking (or not sprinting anyway). I walk right up to people’s faces and start shooting them before they realize I’m even there. Katana on all loadouts? Yes, please!

I’m torn about the EMP. I like the idea for the most part, I’m just not sure I like the part where it could delay a C4.

I think if he’s going to be classified as a recon merc, his ability should reflect that. We already have a couple of mercs that spot other mercs. What if Phantom had the ability to spot enemy deployables while cloaked? The way it could work is, Phantom cloaks and goes behind enemy lines where he can see enemy deployables, then looks at them with his crosshair like Redeye’s IR vision, and it spots them for teammates. That could be useful to the team. To know where enemy turrets, health and ammo stations, mines, etc. are? They could be marked with a red X or something different from mercs so teammates know the difference between spotted enemy mercs and deployables. Your teammates might not know exactly what deployable is there, but they at least know to be wary of that area. I dunno, I’m just spitballing.

(GottaBeGreg) #16

Too bad that Splash Damage have just straight out said that they are not going to give him a secondary ability. Also I detest the idea of any specific merc being necessary on a team coughFraggercough and Phantom having such a ridiculously strong utility as to give you more time to defuse and being able to disable the EV momentarily would make him a must have.

Honestly Phantoms current state is just fine. Use him for long enough and you can get more than just proficient with him. For those of you in Aus who have played in a match with HunterSF will know exactly what I mean.

(CCP115) #17

I’ve never really been into any Phantom discussions, however I just have to say that right now, he is absolutely no fun to play against. Getting chunked for 100 damage out of nowhere? Not very fun.

As long as this change makes him fit in a little better, then I am all for it. Currently he is so out there, and sticks out like a sore thumb in the current “meta” if you will.

(GottaBeGreg) #18

“Getting chunked for 100 damage out of nowhere? Not very fun.”
How about getting chunked for all of you health out of nowhere by a Vaseline across the map or a Fragger or a Sparks. Seems as though he is very in line with the meta to me. Then again, Phantom players have to be ballsy enough to get close, rather than sitting a medium to long range like the aforementioned.

Despite his tendency to blend in, I think that Phantom is meant to stick out, and it suits him well. The ONLY problem with Phantom is public matches. When high skill Phantoms play in Scrims/ comps etc they do just as well as other Assault mercs do (I know he isn’t officially an assault merc but I mean come on, he basically is) but when they go into Pubs they stomp and people complain. When new players run around pubs has him they find the forgiving skill level, well, forgiving and can easily shred other unaware new players. But I think since Splash Damage is so set on the game being competitive they need to just accept that they have actually done a good job of making a merc that effectively captures his personality in his abilities and plays well to those who need not only rely upon stealth nor damage, despite how the newer players or even the more experienced players may complain.

I propose one last thing to you. When a Phantom top Frags with 50 kills (killing people is his job after all), people go up in arms, when a Fragger top Frags with 50 kills, nobody blinks. Sounds a little messed up to me don’t you think?

(gg2ez) #19

[quote=“GottaBeGreg;95568”]Too bad that Splash Damage have just straight out said that they are not going to give him a secondary ability. Also I detest the idea of any specific merc being necessary on a team coughFraggercough and Phantom having such a ridiculously strong utility as to give you more time to defuse and being able to disable the EV momentarily would make him a must have.

Honestly Phantoms current state is just fine. Use him for long enough and you can get more than just proficient with him. For those of you in Aus who have played in a match with HunterSF will know exactly what I mean.[/quote]

@GottaBeGreg Holy balls, HunterSF is a demon.

(Rosenkreuz) #20

[quote=“gg2ez;95363”]I agree with all except “change primaries” because KEK is love, KEK is live.

Edit: Instead of just a plain and simple “make cloak stronger”, @Rosenkreuz came up with the idea that the closer Phantom is to enemies, the weaker the cloak - thus making him more adept at flanking but still counterable.

Thoughts?[/quote]

I’m biased towards my own idea. :smile:

This might be just me, but I believe that Phantom could use an overall style change, too. I know people hate the idea of Katana being an ability with some minor speed buffs to go with it, but the ability would promote more melee combat. I like melee more than guns when it comes to any character that has a melee weapon other than a small knife, so, again, I’m biased towards that. I’d also be in favor of the “Scrubs” trailer’s Katana/Pistol combo. That sort of thing works on a technical level, as shown by the cult game EYE: Divine Cybermancy, where pistols can be dual wielded with melee weapons. (And not-so-secretly, I wanted Phantom to be a lot more “animu,” as some people have taken to calling it.)

I don’t think Phantom needs another ability, though. Aside from any style changes that may be presented, Phantom’s only deficiency is Refractive Armor. Technically, Katana’s stab is also a deficiency since the stab range is shorter than the slash range. I’d also like to have the Katana’s slowdown-on-strike removed, but that’s just me.