Suggestion: More character visibility in first person.

(watsyurdeal) #21

[quote=“Nibbles;187805”][quote=“Szakalot;187714”]i appreciate the sentiment but this is an arena shooter, i dont want pointless details to obstruct my field of view.

THE VAST majority of the competitive scene would turn off gun models as soon as it would be possible[/quote]

[quote=“TheStrangerous;187702”]Be honest, all you want is this:


[/quote]

Well, first, I stated that my main concern is that roughly 1/3 of the character models are basically wasted detail, as you never get to see them, that being the knees and below, and that the game would look better from a first-person perspective if you could see your legs. The screenshots I posted from FO3 and Skyrim are to demonstrate how little of the screen it takes up, even when you’re actually looking back on yourself.

The way that FO:NV did this was they only rendered waist-down so that it obstructed maybe 1/8 of the screen, so it never compromised functionality.

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;187752”]That’s actually surprisingly hard to do, the reason you don’t see your legs is because the game has separate models for player view, and world view.

Everything from projectiles, player models, etc, the player and world views have separate files. That’s just how UDK works, to do what you suggest would require a lot of changes to the engine files themselves.[/quote]

Really all they’d have to render is the knees down because that’s all that’s cut off, which isn’t much more to render than the arms are in first person. If anything, they could just add the leg models to the arm model file for the first person perspective(which would add more polygons, but let’s face it, the game engine can run Dome, it shouldn’t have a problem running the equivalent of another third of a player model, since it already renders up to 16 at once, plus visual effects like explosions, light rays, and bloom), and add appropriate animations for 8 cardinal directions, which already happens for most directions with the gun sway anyways.[/quote]

No you don’t understand, it’s not cut off, you have first person view, then a third person view. The first person view only needs to draw the viewmodels for the gun, since the player only needs to know what gun they have equipped. You have things like UTWeapon then UTWeaponAttachment, the second one is the third person view, and it’s only purpose is to allow the player, from the camera view, to see the world and other players around them.

For them to do what you want, they’d have to go back rewrite engine code, cause UDK does not render player models that way. The only game engines I know that do this are the Bungie Engine (Destiny and Halo), Real Virtuality 4, CryEngine, and that’s about it.

There’s really no reason for them to waste time and effort on pointless features that people wouldn’t notice anyhow. This a shooter, this isn’t some mil sim. People don’t care about realism or immersion, they care about the game being fast, frantic, and fun.

They’ve already wasted resources on game modes like execution, we don’t need them wasting it on making the game more “immersive”, unless it’s audio.

(Nibbles02) #22

Clearly I’m not familiar enough with the Unreal Engine to suggest alternative options, but as I’ve stated before, this was accomplished in Bethesda’s Creation Engine by enabling the third person character model to be visible from a first person perspective, and some modders actually locked the first person camera to the third person model to simulate height and head bobbing. Despite what you say, there are still a lot of small details and subtleties that people don’t notice which are sitting around the maps.

Also, if we’re going to talk about wasted resources and people not caring about pointless features, would that make loadout card rarities and skins useless aesthetic as well? A lot of them, especially the lower rarities, are hardly used once players get bronze loadouts and higher they enjoy, and if it’s as you say, then would the development team be better off not adding more camos unlike some forum users are suggesting, or should they add more?

I, for one, believe that they should add more aesthetic skins and features in addition to adding more mercenaries and maps to play on, since the gameplay is already pretty solid as it is, if a bit imbalanced.

(watsyurdeal) #23

[quote=“Nibbles;187878”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;187855”]
-snip-

There’s really no reason for them to waste time and effort on pointless features that people wouldn’t notice anyhow. This a shooter, this isn’t some mil sim. People don’t care about realism or immersion, they care about the game being fast, frantic, and fun.

They’ve already wasted resources on game modes like execution, we don’t need them wasting it on making the game more “immersive”, unless it’s audio.

[/quote]

Clearly I’m not familiar enough with the Unreal Engine to suggest alternative options, but as I’ve stated before, this was accomplished in Bethesda’s Creation Engine by enabling the third person character model to be visible from a first person perspective, and some modders actually locked the first person camera to the third person model to simulate height and head bobbing. Despite what you say, there are still a lot of small details and subtleties that people don’t notice which are sitting around the maps.

Also, if we’re going to talk about wasted resources and people not caring about pointless features, would that make loadout card rarities and skins useless aesthetic as well? A lot of them, especially the lower rarities, are hardly used once players get bronze loadouts and higher they enjoy, and if it’s as you say, then would the development team be better off not adding more camos unlike some forum users are suggesting, or should they add more?

I, for one, believe that they should add more aesthetic skins and features in addition to adding more mercenaries and maps to play on, since the gameplay is already pretty solid as it is, if a bit imbalanced.[/quote]

Except those mods also increase the amount of processing the game needs to run, and the engine Skyrim runs on is designed to be super cheap on the system. That’s why consoles could run it fairly well without losing a lot of the details and graphics, especially given that it’s drawing things miles away in the game world, and still keeping a decent frame rate.

Dirty Bomb is already heavy on processing power, so this added on top of that, is a waste of time. You would not only have to render the models, you have to animate them, texture them, and likely they would be attached to the first person view models. So it’d be a lot of extra juice to render all that, not a good move for a free to play game when it’s taxing as it is.

If anything, gameplay is more important, and a lot of the maps can use some work, changes to the layout and new paths added so offense has a better chance of winning.

If you’re looking for an immersive game, you’re playing the wrong one.

And right here you only prove a point, if it’s not going to add any clutter, then clearly it’s not going to be seen often, or at all.

So tell me, if you’re optimizing a game to run at it’s best, why would you render something the player isn’t even going to be seeing unless he or she specifically looks down???

(Nibbles02) #24

I would do so, but make it a graphical option, such as the aforementioned light beams and bloom. The CE was able to do long-distance rendering through the use of LODs, whereby a low-poly and thus low-demand model was rendered once anything got a certain distance from the player character, and this can be seen with the PC version of the game in the launcher, where you can change the distance at which the game disables primary rendering for objects, and the LOD system actually led to stuff like this:

And this:

The CE in Skyrim’s case was actually pretty demanding if you used the high-quality texture DLC that the game came bundled with and set rendering to max(also because the game was designed for the XBOX360 and the PS3, both systems being up to par with mid-level PCs, even today). Another example of this is how Fallout 4 also uses the CE, even though it doesn’t utilize the lower portion of the player model in first person, as there is a lot of looting in the game, especially of objects on the floor, and as far as I’m aware, nobody has released mods for that specific purpose yet.

Plus several mercs often look at the ground because that’s how they are most effective, an example being any medic as they’ll usually stick with teammates and have to revive players next to them on the ground, another being Phantoms(or any CQC merc if you use the wall jump), as a lunge attack combined with a wall jump puts you above your enemies so you would see this at a diagonal angle. Also, there are sections of the map where everyone else would be able to see this regularly, one example being the bridge on the third Chapel objective, where you have to jump down to get to it, not to mention multiple areas around the first bridge on the Bridge map.

The difference between cluttering the screen and seeing things is that you can still function with this enabled, but it wouldn’t take your entire screen up and make it impossible to see half the screen like the MK46 LMG. I never did say I was looking for immersion or realism either, I just said it would be visually appealing and would use that extra 1/3 of the character model that isn’t often seen at all in detail, much less close up.

(watsyurdeal) #25

[quote=“Nibbles;187891”][spoiler]I would do so, but make it a graphical option, such as the aforementioned light beams and bloom. The CE was able to do long-distance rendering through the use of LODs, whereby a low-poly and thus low-demand model was rendered once anything got a certain distance from the player character, and this can be seen with the PC version of the game in the launcher, where you can change the distance at which the game disables primary rendering for objects, and the LOD system actually led to stuff like this:

And this:

The CE in Skyrim’s case was actually pretty demanding if you used the high-quality texture DLC that the game came bundled with and set rendering to max(also because the game was designed for the XBOX360 and the PS3, both systems being up to par with mid-level PCs, even today). Another example of this is how Fallout 4 also uses the CE, even though it doesn’t utilize the lower portion of the player model in first person, as there is a lot of looting in the game, especially of objects on the floor, and as far as I’m aware, nobody has released mods for that specific purpose yet.

Plus several mercs often look at the ground because that’s how they are most effective, an example being any medic as they’ll usually stick with teammates and have to revive players next to them on the ground, another being Phantoms(or any CQC merc if you use the wall jump), as a lunge attack combined with a wall jump puts you above your enemies so you would see this at a diagonal angle. Also, there are sections of the map where everyone else would be able to see this regularly, one example being the bridge on the third Chapel objective, where you have to jump down to get to it, not to mention multiple areas around the first bridge on the Bridge map.

The difference between cluttering the screen and seeing things is that you can still function with this enabled, but it wouldn’t take your entire screen up and make it impossible to see half the screen like the MK46 LMG. [/spoiler]I never did say I was looking for immersion or realism either, I just said it would be visually appealing and would use that extra 1/3 of the character model that isn’t often seen at all in detail, much less close up.[/quote]

We aren’t looking for visually appealing graphics, we’re looking for a fun to play shooter, that’s easy to run and built for multiplayer.

Sorry to say but your suggestions have literally no place here, this game is already in need of optimization, we don’t need to add more work for our hardware and dropping our frame rates.

(brennanfreak) #26

I just want skins to apply in first person.

(Nibbles02) #27

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;187911”]
We aren’t looking for visually appealing graphics, we’re looking for a fun to play shooter, that’s easy to run and built for multiplayer.

Sorry to say but your suggestions have literally no place here, this game is already in need of optimization, we don’t need to add more work for our hardware and dropping our frame rates.[/quote]

And that’s fine if it’s your opinion, but, sorry to say, you can only represent yourself. I represent my opinions and biases, and I’ve pointed out that a lot of people, on the forums and ingame, have suggested graphical changes and changes to vanity features for the purpose of a visually appealing, and thus a more fun, game.

And who’s to say suggestions for graphical details have no place here? Sure there are areas that need optimization, no denying that, but it’s not as if people can’t run the game because the graphics waste system resources.

Also, it’s exactly that: [i]a suggestion[/i], something that I believe would improve the game in some way, and it’s not as if it’s even some radical change either, just the minuscule addition of a part of the character model that already exists ingame but isn’t displayed in first person or when viewing the character through loadout previews. In addition to that, misoptimization of one graphical option doesn’t necessitate that there shouldn’t be another option, especially when you can toggle both of them.

What you’re looking for doesn’t necessarily coincide with what other people are looking for, be it the minority or majority.

(KUST__LunarTM) #28

@Nibbles Not seeing your feet is an extremely common thing seen in almost all first person shooters, with exception to the Halo series to name one. Most of the games that do allow you to see your feet are normally RPG’s and other games that have a much slower pace to the game. Dirty Bomb is more akin to an arena shooter; it’s much more fast paced. It focuses more on having good gunplay than immersive visuals, while RPG’s and other slow paced games will put a lot more effort into making the visuals much more appealing and immersive so that you feel as if you are the hero in that story, and not just some person at a computer controlling a guy in a game.

(Xyfurion) #29

Wait… why would you want to see characters’ feet in the game? I mean, I don’t personally have anything against feet, but I don’t think I want to see my feet when I look down for a mine.

Put this from a developer’s perspective. Either they could spend more time optimizing the game, fixing bugs, and adding cool-ass features. Or they could add fucking feet. You obviously know what their priorities are. There is literally NO point in being able to see your feet in an FPS game.

This is my opinion and I am free to express it.

(ZeSpecter) #30

Well, I think it would be pretty neat if that was added in. Just include a simple option to switch on and off so it doesn’t affect anyone negatively. Immersion may not be the most important of things to focus on in DB at the moment but can’t hurt to have a bit of it either.

(Icecoal) #31

Appreciate the effort but imo It wouldn’t fit in DB considering it’s a frantic competitive shooter

(Sorotia) #32

Not unless I look down at them…and why would I look down at my feet when my goals of survival consist of aiming high at peoples upper chest and head?

Why do I need to see my feet? What does it add to the add to the game really?

Doesn’t add any strategy or techniques to the game…if you want to look at your feet there is plenty of time to enjoy them (Have a foot fetish do we now?) when you look your loadout card models or see other people playing the same merc…

I’m sure other players would love it if you stopped to admire their legs and feet.

(supergonzo) #33

What’s next? Full controller support?

(BananaSlug) #34

[quote=“TheStrangerous;187702”]Be honest, all you want is this:


[/quote]

but why he would want dinosaurs in DB ?

(watsyurdeal) #35

[quote=“BananaSlug;188597”]

but why he would want dinosaurs in DB ?[/quote]

http://images-cdn.moviepilot.com/images/c_fill,h_500,w_500/t_mp_quality/snglfi0d3gpznbgihbwq/jurassic-world-raptor-squad-spoilers-this-picture-was-too-awesome-not-to-use-392224.jpg

(Brycko) #36

It always confused me how Dirty Bomb is a competitive shooter but it has developed and loveable badass characters. Best of two worlds?

(PastrySama) #37

I don’t know if anyone has said it because I won’t waste my time reading all the comments.

Instead of adding more visuals to the first person view, why not fix the fact that the first person view does not match the third person camo they’re wearing.

(watsyurdeal) #38

[quote=“PastrySama;188624”]I don’t know if anyone has said it because I won’t waste my time reading all the comments.

Instead of adding more visuals to the first person view, why not fix the fact that the first person view does not match the third person camo they’re wearing.[/quote]

All you see is your hands, up to your elbow.


http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/442828677483489971/627055809273E734C5385E229931519DB8B8402C/

It’s a small thing, not really something I’m all too concerned with.

(Sorotia) #39

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;188629”][quote=“PastrySama;188624”]I don’t know if anyone has said it because I won’t waste my time reading all the comments.

Instead of adding more visuals to the first person view, why not fix the fact that the first person view does not match the third person camo they’re wearing.[/quote]

All you see is your hands, up to your elbow.

It’s a small thing, not really something I’m all too concerned with. [/quote]

While it isn’t a big deal, I agree with him in it would be nice to see a fix for it some day.

(TheStrangerous) #40

Now if we’re REALLY at it…

Proxy’s vision

She should have black border on the left, and shouldn’t see in 3d.

Stoker’s vision: