Suggestion: Double class system/Gametype.

(Glottis-3D) #1

with all the technical problems left aside - like maps, lags, cheaters, lack of communication - the most significent problem, is lack of excitement in the most important thing in Stopwatch - object play.

with nearly 1,5 years of classless object i am starting to think that class-orientation in object is the most key thing. because it has risk. everything depends on the object guys.

so i thought of re-introducing class object system.
i am not speaking about 5 classes, that we have.
just two classes - Object class and Support Class.

Some mercs (no matter their specialization) do objects.
And some mercs are to support the object guys. Not only with fire, but with actual ability, that hastens the Object-making process.

then i thought that how to decide what mercs are to be Object-guys, and what mercs will support? Well, every single merc can be both. The player decides in the Squad lobby, whether his merc/mercs is a support OR an Object.
So player actually goes into the game with a set of mercs (i am thinking about set of 2 mercs) - and one of them is an object guy, and the other is support (or both are supports if he wants)

So there can be a thunder with blow-torch, and a Proxy, that supports him, and hastens the Object. (aura-type ability)

And i think, that enemies need to be able to distinguish the object-cuys just by looking at them (skins or highlights?)

Overal:

  1. In squad menu, you have a slot for ‘Object Guy’ and a slot for ‘Support guy’
  2. You can make any merc your ‘Object guy’ /debatable/ mb choose from some mercs, not yet decided
  3. Support-guys have hasten ability. that speeds up the object-making.
  4. The merc’s belonging to either object or support class should be clearly visible. like when in ET/Etqw you saw sniper/engie and knew that he could hack/disarm.
(Glottis-3D) #2

this is in no way a finished concept.
but i thought that:

  1. it will encourage object-play
  2. teamplay
  3. everyone can benefit the object
  4. once the object guy gibbed = you’re screwed excitement.

Just need to decide, how must object class and how it will be weaker than support class.:
-mercs selection (we do have weaker and stronger mercs)
-ability selection
-gun selection.

would love to read opinions on this.

(rookie1) #3

do you mean a merc is by default is neither an object and support and you (in lobby) Classified him as either one ?

(BomBaKlaK) #4

I think that’s a really good idea !

  • Support classes : Medic / Field ops / Sniper (radar)
  • Objective Classes : Engie / Soldier

And remove all the dam “Capture zones” this obj type doesn’t fit at all on Objective game !

(rookie1) #5

I find this Much more simple than what we have now .
I like the idea to built around it .
The cross abilities would become more clear and simple
Right now the fact that who can do this or that at what speed and if we try to help an engie our speed action doesnt count ,make all things very complicate
I see this idea as improving the game

(Glottis-3D) #6

well, i know, that i have my favorite mercs, so does everybody else, and i know what kind of play i love - extreme object stuff. so i want everyone to have their vast variety of mercs (mb not all of them - but definitely not just 3 engies, who are very limited in play) to choose from and to be able to play their game.

  1. support class needs to be for those who like to frag, and who is good in it. but if they want to help - they can hasten the object. i think of hasten as even more fast than 2 engies disarm speed,
  2. object class needs to be object-oriented set of skills.

lets say all mercs have different stuff in each class.
“Object-set” of guns/ammo, and “support set” of guns/ammo
“Object”-abilities (selfdefence, area-denial) and support-abilities (merc-interaction medpack, ammo.).

(rookie1) #7

what if we could switch our default skill for another …like you have the x skill you can switch for one of these 3 others skills.But some skills would be reserved for the other class
That would be great but technicaly idk if its can be done

(Glottis-3D) #8

[QUOTE=rookie1;505052]what if we could switch our default skill for another …like you have the x skill you can switch for one of these 3 others skills.But some skills would be reserved for the other class
That would be great but technicaly idk if its can be done[/QUOTE]

what if a Object-pack, that contains blowtorch & i-pod is something, that you can put in the ability slot, instead of actual ability. Like when you customise you char in RPG. more like a magic ring with restrictions (less max ammo, less x abilities, but more y abilities)

(rookie1) #9

may be also …
But i was thinking the High abilities like turret(obj) ,air strike (Sup) etc…

If after selecting an merc class (in this case an object one)
on your screen next you could have that merc with a sub 3 divisions choice
-That merc with turret
-That merc with self revive
-That merc with temp shield

after you could choice what you saying in the same way
etc…
Drag and drop style

(rookie1) #10

Kro.JPG1153×639 38.8 KB

This is one way I might see it …for now
Drag & Drop

(tokamak) #11

I like it. Right now too few people bother with getting the actual specialist for the objective. Especially with charges.

On the flipside, simplifying the objective class into a binary system allows for a lot of cool features.

Off the top of my head. The game could start giving a warning when there’s no objective classes active in the team. The game could simply not start until someone has objective classes in the team.

Then, during the match, a similar warning could appear that none of the objective classes in the team are active. This would quickly educate newcomers on what this game is about and develop a greater awareness among all the players.

(Glottis-3D) #12

i agree, that team-warnings can realy help new comers.

and i like binary-nature of this system. Because right now we have medics, that can build EV for very long time. and this is totally useless feature of the game. this medic will never save the day, and he will only waste his medic abilities. So that all low-speed object-guys are just a feature for the sake of feature. and In the sense of excitement they take away focus in the game. Like in tennis, if you miss a ball you loose. you dont have another little ball to hit in that round.

(rookie1) #13

[QUOTE=krokodealer;505085]i agree, that team-warnings can realy help new comers.

and i like binary-nature of this system. Because right now we have medics, that can build EV for very long time. and this is totally useless feature of the game. this medic will never save the day, and he will only waste his medic abilities. So that all low-speed object-guys are just a feature for the sake of feature. and In the sense of excitement they take away focus in the game. Like in tennis, if you miss a ball you loose. you dont have another little ball to hit in that round.[/QUOTE]

Agreed .
Repairing at that speed shouldnt be ingame at all . Better take out this feature for med
…Oh and Yes for the warning… good idea!

(rookie1) #14

What I could see for a Medic is get rid of plier and give him among his tools a syringe that boost engie/obj class in their work .
You see an obj class arming /disarming a Bomb ,you give him a shot to increase his speed execution by x%

(twincannon) #15

[QUOTE=krokodealer;505038]
4. once the object guy gibbed = you’re screwed excitement.[/QUOTE]

more like boredom? This is one of the worst parts of the classic objective class style, it’s not really all that much more exciting to kill a single special person (we already have that with medics, anyway), and after they die it’s way less exciting because the rest of the team may as well suicide with no hope of ever completing the objective.

Honestly I think the objectives are more to blame than the classes, I really wish we just had more simple capture and hold points or something, it works in a ton of other games due to its simplicity and it works fine here on the objectives that have them (i.e. Underground 1st, Camden Train 1st). Can keep engies as the only class that can blow up optional side routes, but keep them just like that - optional. No C4 for primary objectives.

(INF3RN0) #16

Well I figured I’d add in an idea I had a while back, but never bothered to post. The idea stems from the way the bomb works in SnD modes of CS combined with DB and ET styles. So basically both teams spawn with a single obj tool, which anyone on the team can pick-up. The carrier would have the ability to pass the tool to another player at close proximity only, however if the tool carrier was incapped and then gibbed the tool would respawn back at the forward. It would still include the benefits of agnostic objs, but would bring back that strategic element from prev titles. To counter the issue of the ‘idiot’ hogging the obj tool, eng archetypes would spawn additional obj tools that could be used to stack progress on obj completion with something like a max of 2 extra.

(Glottis-3D) #17

[QUOTE=twincannon;505117]more like boredom? This is one of the worst parts of the classic objective class style, it’s not really all that much more exciting to kill a single special person (we already have that with medics, anyway), and after they die it’s way less exciting because the rest of the team may as well suicide with no hope of ever completing the objective.

Honestly I think the objectives are more to blame than the classes, I really wish we just had more simple capture and hold points or something, it works in a ton of other games due to its simplicity and it works fine here on the objectives that have them (i.e. Underground 1st, Camden Train 1st). Can keep engies as the only class that can blow up optional side routes, but keep them just like that - optional. No C4 for primary objectives.[/QUOTE]

disagree. no hack panel or C4 or build lazer object can be as exciting as keeping the object guy alive. Engies/Coverts were always the real objects. not just some textured boxes, that you interact with…in - to be honest - pretty primitive way.

@Inferno i kinda remember that thought about obj-tool. so you did post it somewhere. whats good in it - it keeps the object-guy selection ingame, instead of lobby.

(rookie1) #18

If you have cool object characters with cool abilities to choices from you will never get a team without One or more Obj guys.
If ever it happens the Tokamak warning system ( :wink: ) will warn you before game start

give me 2 DB games one with the present system and one based on Krokodealer system …Id swith to kroko one right away :slight_smile:

(Erkin31) #19

This is close to my idea of Role http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/37219-Classless-objectives-Role-system
So, of course, I like your idea.

(rookie1) #20

kro3.JPG1153×639 40.4 KB

This how I could see your Team Final Window before game Start