Suggestion: Changes to Scoreboard

(TheGreatHoundini) #1

So I was playing Stopwatch. And somebody on the other team remarked at halftime: “I’m the only one on my team with Positive K/D!” Which is true.

He then followed up with:
“I cannot carry this useless team!”

The thing was that, I’m sure I bumped into a group of people who play together because the other team members were protesting and seemed to know each other.

Of course he might be right about the K/D being an indicator. But it’s also possible he’s wrong on many fronts. If you are killing and killing and killing and killing… Then you’re not doing the objective… Which is to say… you’re not “carrying” anything. :pensive: Sure enough when it was their turn to push the EV on Chapel after halftime… the thing never made it to the elevator…

And that guy basically wasted his time just Fragger-ing around the EV… :disappointed:

Now… In the aftermath of this thing and the mini-fiasco of him bickering with his team at halftime. Some of them protested he didn’t help objectives.

I therefore propose the following changes to Scoreboard with the following columns:

  1. Combat Score (instead of K/D). Basically just a number indicating how well you fought.
  2. Objective Score - a Metric Indicating how you contributed to Objectives.
  3. Support Score - Healing Given and Ammo Given score
  4. Ability Score - Score for using your Special Ability
  5. Mission Rating - 1, 2, or 3 stars.

The idea behind the Star Mission Rating is that you can score it a number of ways, for example:

+1 star for each Main Objective you Scored (you got the EV to the end, delivered a Sample, Blew up the Track Controls, etc.)
+1 star for leading your team in Support
+2 stars for leading in Support overall
+1 star for leading your team in Kills
+2 stars for leading in Kills overall.
+1 star for going above a certain number in Support Score

3 stars instantly if you won the game with timer below a certain point…

blah blah blah

Maxes out to something like 3 to 4 stars each Scoreboard, ideally towards one’s contribution in Kills, Support, Healing, Objectives, etc.

You get the idea? What I’m suggesting is that the scoreboard shows the true picture of action and gives somewhat equal emphasis on Kills, Support, and doing the Objective.

That way… somebody can check himself before opening his mouth, deriding his teammates, or mistakenly claiming he’s “carrying” the team.

(bushyg) #2

Honestly, if supports, medics or engineers do their proposed roles, their scores will almost always be higher than most Fraggers.

If the Fragger is top scoring and getting streaks etc, and the engineers haven’t made any progression in the map, then he probably feels he’s done his part, hence the whinge.

(GatoCommodore) #3

I play bushwanker and gets top score with best K/D in the team…

And somehow, i didnt carry the team?

I play Aimee eliminating medics and tankers but somehow the team camps behind despite my initiative repairing EV and protecting it and i got best K/D but then we lose

And somehow, i didnt carry the team?

somehow eliminating 20 enemies without dying once but the team didnt do jack shit is not carrying the team…?

what is keeping the enemies at bay
what is sabotaging enemy counter advance
what is preventing enemies spawn camping the team
what is being a distraction

what is winning the battle but lost the war

(TheGreatHoundini) #4

^The point is the guy wasn’t talking about the score… he was talking about just the “K/D”.

You, however, absolutely deserve the Medal of Honor. :smile:

[quote=“bushyg;211999”]Honestly, if supports, medics or engineers do their proposed roles, their scores will almost always be higher than most Fraggers.

If the Fragger is top scoring and getting streaks etc, and the engineers haven’t made any progression in the map, then he probably feels he’s done his part, hence the whinge.[/quote]

Not sure if this is true. I’ve had matches in Terminal where I agreed with my team that I’ll be Engie and throw myself at objectives… so I did all the objectives, died a lot doing it… But both containers and the wall were blown up by me… I also managed to clear the gas tunnel (such was the peace and quiet my team gave me) and then…I’m bottom of scoreboard. Not even middle or something… I mean you’d think doing objectives was important.

No ticker tape parade for the hero. :pensive:

Mostly though… I don’t care… A win is a win. But I’m just saying it’s not shown in scoreboard.

(doxjq) #5

K/D doesn’t mean much. Damage output is a much better resource.

One of my last 3 ranked games I got 34 kills at the end of the game and a team mate of mine got 37, but if you look at the damage output I did 18.7k damage and he only did 9.1k damage.

Just luckily for him he was shooting the same people as me almost all game and always got the finishing bullet.

I kind of wish pub games showed damage done as well.

(Dawnlazy) #6

Don’t want KDs removed, would rather just have those stats from ranked added to pubs.

(bushyg) #7

I’d say Terminal is a fair example of a map that’s hard to top as an engineer if the game goes for a decent amount of time, whilst constantly requiring one. At the same time, if you’re playing Proxy and throwing yourself at the objective, without working with your team, then it’s not really your teams fault for not defending a bomb that you planted while they were all still spawning. If the game goes on like this, then of course the points scored are going to be diminished in comparison to someone killing a lot of players.

But isn’t your star suggestion already similar to the medals you receive? Even down to the grading? They all result in xp anyway, there’s quiet a few engineer ones worth a decent amount.

In CMM and ranked, everyone can see your medals post game, so they can be aware that the engineer or medics done well, even with a negative KDR. I don’t think this style score card is completely necessary for pubs; but if you feel it is, I think that request would be easier than a complete remake of something that’s pretty much already implemented in the game.

(TheGreatHoundini) #8

[quote=“Dox;212011”]K/D doesn’t mean much. Damage output is a much better resource.

One of my last 3 ranked games I got 34 kills at the end of the game and a team mate of mine got 37, but if you look at the damage output I did 18.7k damage and he only did 9.1k damage.

Just luckily for him he was shooting the same people as me almost all game and always got the finishing bullet.

I kind of wish pub games showed damage done as well. [/quote]

Actually I want to take that one further: “K/D” is worthless.

Think about it. a “Combat Score” would probably factor in K/D internally… but also the damage dealt, Accuracy, etc. That would solve your problems… and it means @sweetColumn can continue to say the same things about team carrying but without using that ambiguous and useless “K/D” metric.

Rather the statement would be: “Look at my Combat Score! My Objective Score! Why am I top-one on both?!?” Then say you’re carrying the team and you’d be right! :wink:

I’m basically saying that 9 out of 10 “K/D” discussions in DB just result in useless ranting by a player without fully understanding necessarily what was going on.

(TheGreatHoundini) #9

[quote=“bushyg;212014”]I’d say Terminal is a fair example of a map that’s hard to top as an engineer if the game goes for a decent amount of time, whilst constantly requiring one. At the same time, if you’re playing Proxy and throwing yourself at the objective, without working with your team, then it’s not really your teams fault for not defending a bomb that you planted while they were all still spawning. If the game goes on like this, then of course the points scored are going to be diminished in comparison to someone killing a lot of players.

But isn’t your star suggestion already similar to the medals you receive? Even down to the grading? They all result in xp anyway, there’s quiet a few engineer ones worth a decent amount.

In CMM and ranked, everyone can see your medals post game, so they can be aware that the engineer or medics done well, even with a negative KDR. I don’t think this style score card is completely necessary for pubs; but if you feel it is, I think that request would be easier than a complete remake of something that’s pretty much already implemented in the game.[/quote]

Yeah…seeing the medals in scoreboard even in Pub would be great. :slight_smile:

The few times I was top of boards (I’m almost never a Combatant) I had to get like 2 rows of badges or something (they scrolled out of screen left). And yeah… that feels great. In hindsight thought that might also involve a run as Stoker with Ammo Station and lots and lots of targets in close quarters Molotov action… but badges are badges all the same. :slight_smile:

And to be fair. That one Terminal match? I only had a C4 I planted defused once… So the team were definitely pretty good. But I was just a bit surprised to be “that low” considering I “scored the winning basket”.

Definitely not angry or anything… It’s just a game and a bit of fun. :slight_smile:

(doxjq) #10

Well @TheGreatHoundini you’re not wrong, but some times it can still show something like if people have similar damage output. Tbh it would mean a lot more if they showed the assists as well. K/D/A would be way better for seeing how effective someone is in combat, but yeah I guess outright damage is one step better again.

Like @Dawnrazor said. I’d just rather see the ranked stats added to pub. That tells you everything (damage output, objective XP, combat XP, support XP, assists, kills, deaths, etc)

My last ranked game:

There isn’t really much it doesn’t tell you actually.

(GatoCommodore) #11

the thing is about score board is they dont count on how much time enemies spend to chase you around and not defending their objective, score board doesnt count fear tactics, score board doesnt count picking off better skilled sniper so our team can push, score board doesnt count for spawn timing tactics and etc.

its not the most perfect thing but essentially @TheGreatHoundini just stating that hes upset because someone claim he/she carried the team because he/she have positive K/D.

since “hes only fraggering around the EV” implies that hes playing fragger, which is not an engineer, which maybe why he isnt repairing the EV.

So he played fragger, gets good K/D, which what fragger made for and somehow the team said hes not helping the team…

Gee i wonder why Fragger dont repair EV and get good K/D?

sure m8…

suuureeeee

(doxjq) #12

Well yeah, the scoreboard doesn’t and can’t ever show AOE.

We were discussing with our team the other day how incredibly effective Nader is in game, but on paper she basically shows that she does nothing. I mean she can take out deployables, block routes, slow the enemy team down at choke points, distract snipers from a distance, and just outright slows the enemy team down in many ways so all in all she just takes the pressure off your team and lets you get more done.

At the end of the game she doesn’t get many kills, her damage output isn’t the highest, she does bugger all objective so on paper it looks like she does nothing, but my god she is easily one of the most useful and underrated characters in 5v5 ranked/competitive. Total game changer mostly through cause of effect, which can’t be shown on paper.

(Press E) #13

I had a thought a while ago. Basically just display your combat, game mode, and support XP separately on the leader boards. That way your team can actually see what you’ve done directly.

Seems better than overcomplicating things like this.

(doxjq) #14

[quote=“STARRYSOCK;212022”]I had a thought a while ago. Basically just display your combat, game mode, and support XP separately on the leader boards. That way your team can actually see what you’ve done directly.

Seems better than overcomplicating things like this.[/quote]

Yeah definitely. We had a laugh on this other ranked game we played one time. We were duo queue and at the end of the game our medic had 3 kills and almost no score, and his argument was that he was spending too much time healing rather than shooting.

But the end game stats don’t lie. I had nearly 1.5 times more support XP than him and I used Arty for the whole game haha.

(TheGreatHoundini) #15

Which is the moral lesson of Dirty Bomb: “No merc is an island. No merc stands alone.”
But each merc doesn’t seem to always treat the other as his brother. :smile:

(Herr_Hanz) #16

sometimes you just cant carry with kills.

(GatoCommodore) #17

[quote=“TheGreatHoundini;212039”][quote=“sweetColumn;212018”]
Gee i wonder why Fragger dont repair EV and get good K/D?
[/quote]

Which is the moral lesson of Dirty Bomb: “No merc is an island. No merc stands alone.”
But each merc doesn’t seem to always treat the other as his brother. :smile: [/quote]

[quote=“Herr_Hanz;212047”]http://i.imgur.com/DvqEps4.jpg

sometimes you just cant carry with kills.[/quote]

@Herr_Hanz proves your islands wrong

(TheGreatHoundini) #18

No… @Herr_Hanz proves it right… “No Merc is an Island” means no Merc can win the match alone. This is to say “carrying” (in this game) doesn’t carry the same meaning as it would in other games.

Kills can’t win the match. Not saying they don’t matter totally. But just like dribbling skills and really fast running in basketball can’t win the game if nobody shoots the basketball, you can’t win in DB if nobody is doing the objective.

Even you prove those “islands” right when you ridicule about why a Fragger busy killing isn’t repairing the EV while maintaining his score. It’s impossible. That’s the point. But he didn’t appreciate that.

His “carrying” was never going to take them closer to winning. And his insistence on looking at just that one stat, and then deriding his team for it, wasn’t going to contribute to them coming back in the second half.

My only point is that I just felt the kerfuffle I witnessed was ultimately of little use to either that Fragger or the community. But yeah… others have pointed out that the stats and metrics for what I’m after exist - They just don’t appear in Pub Match Scoreboards.

Might have helped at that time for him (and them) to see where each of them might contribute. Because as you rightly pointed out. The Fragger that is busy killing the enemy, cannot possibly repair that EV. :slight_smile:

(frostyvampire) #19

The only thing you should carry is the objective. Not the team
But of course carrying is only half the job, you need to deliver it too

I don’t see why not add these things. The stars look like something weird but the stats for health given, ammo clips given and etc. would be a nice feature to be added to the current after-game lobby thing (the one that is currently in ranked and will be added in CMM)
But I don’t think there’s a need in removing the current stats

(Madonna_) #20

Remove levels, remove kills/deaths
As simple as that