Stoker's Molotov

(Fractures) #1

Getting tired of tossing a Molotov in someone’s face and they somehow survive. Fire should cling to players if they are directly hit.

(hoyes) #2

Due to the impact nature of the grenades, it would be op to make it some sort of insta kill or an ongoing damage,as that would require medic by ypur side. stoker is balanced as hes not supposed to be used for primarily getting kills, more so area denial, which the molotovs excel at. Sone people think hes op because of the impact, to which SD promptly nerfed a while back. To buff him again would just make people mad.

(everlovestruck) #3

It explodes on impact. Panic molotov is already op and chews a LOT of health.

Solution?
Add cooking like frag nade has (I know it sounds stupid, but for the sake of balance)
OR
Make Airstrike marker explode on impact.

It’s nearly impossible to kill with Airstrike marker (though it deals a ton of damage), while panic molotov is an insta-kill when stoker is feeling like losing a firefight.

(Orivar) #4

No…

It is “balanced” for now. How many hours you have with him? 2?

(Eox) #5

[quote=“els;194582”]It explodes on impact. Panic molotov is already op and chews a LOT of health.

Solution?
Add cooking like frag nade has (I know it sounds stupid, but for the sake of balance)
OR
Make Airstrike marker explode on impact.

It’s nearly impossible to kill with Airstrike marker (though it deals a ton of damage), while panic molotov is an insta-kill when stoker is feeling like losing a firefight.[/quote]

I wouldn’t really do this. While I also think panic molotovs are really annoying, I think there’s a skillful thing about trying to get direct hit with. I think we could apply another kind of solution.

  • Reduce detonation radius on impact harshly. It’ll lay at first a very small puddle of flames.
  • Make the flame AoE grow to it maximum size after 0.9 seconds, over 0.3 seconds.

Basically, you throw the molotov, it’ll do a very small AoE on the ground, and very few time after the AoE will grow to its current size. IMO, it’s a good way to tune down panic molotovs without totally removing the molotov’s overall versatility : you would have really to score a direct hit if you want to harm with the molotov on a direct hit, yet if can still toss it in an unalerted group and rack up kills.

Such a nerf is a bit unfair though since I consider the current molotov fine despite being annoying for that panic molotov thing. This is why I’d also suggest to raise the damage value of flames from 20 to 30 damage per tick. The goal about this is to raise the area denial potential of the molotov even more. I sometimes see people actually willingly tanking the molotov flames to rush to an objective, which is something that we don’t really want to happen. If such a buff is not enough, just buff the maximum radius of the flames slightly.

Another and more simple solution would be just to extend the time before the throw so it’s not almost instant anymore. @Amerika actually suggested me this in a private conversation though he’s not that much for a Stoker nerf. It’s was very simple yet very smart.

(SaulWolfden) #6

The only thing they should touch is possibly reverting the unnecessary direct hit nerf.

(Amerika) #7

Long jumping defeats most molotov throws. If you’re a good player who is aware of the game you’ll only take minimal damage. Either you get direct hit but take little to no aoe damage or you’ll take only a small amount of AoE damage if you’re aware of the person switching off a weapon. If I face a Stoker and they stop firing and switch weapons I am mentally prepared to long jump instantly in some direction that I think might be safe. This makes molotovs not be an issue for me in general when thrown as a “panic” molotov. That’s why I believe molotovs don’t need any kind of a nerf. But they also don’t need a buff of any kind. Personally, if it had to be nerfed I’d go with what I suggested to @Eox. The molotov throw could be delayed slightly to throw off the panic throw players and also gives people some more time to see the action and respond.

Oh, I also love fighting stoker’s who throw them in 1v1’s since I know it’s coming. They are easy kills just like the proxy’s who try to run up and throw a mine. They have no offensive output and simply die while trying to switch and even if they throw, unless they direct me (rare), I’ll get away with virtually no damage taken.

And some people need to resign themselves to dying to molotovs. Sometimes people make good throws at the right time and you die and there wasn’t much you could do about it. That’s part of the game and I think people forget that at times.

(LMuerteMan) #8

[quote=“els;194582”]It explodes on impact. Panic molotov is already op and chews a LOT of health.

Solution?
Add cooking like frag nade has (I know it sounds stupid, but for the sake of balance)
OR
Make Airstrike marker explode on impact.

It’s nearly impossible to kill with Airstrike marker (though it deals a ton of damage), while panic molotov is an insta-kill when stoker is feeling like losing a firefight.[/quote]

I think there is a fragger for that. If you do that fragger is next to useless comparing its ability to skyhammer

(LMuerteMan) #9

[*] Make the flame AoE grow to it maximum size after 0.9 seconds, over 0.3 seconds.
[/list]

That´s the best idea I have read so far in relation to the molotov. The spread sometimes it seams so big. It would be a nice solution

(Fractures) #10

@AnotherGuy, I have 35 hours with Stoker. He was the first merc I bought.

(everlovestruck) #11

[quote=“LMuerteMan;194641”]
I think there is a fragger for that. If you do that fragger is next to useless comparing its ability to skyhammer [/quote]
So you think that Fragger is too similar to Skyhammer? How about comparing Fragger to Stoker?

This fucker has ammo (which Fragger can’t have), while both of them have a grenade that insta-kills in most cases. Fragger’s Frag is supposed to be cooked for balance purposes, while Stoker’s fucking nuke is “throw-and-forget”. But wait, there is more!
Fragger’s Frag DOESN’T explode on impact, while Stoker’s OP ability just shits under your feet.

Fragger has more HP and his Frag deals more damage. He’s perfectly equal to Skydad in terms of balance.
However my rant was on Skydad vs Stoker if you haven’t noticed.

(jokingShale) #12

Change initial blast damage to 0, then make anyone directly hit by the molotov keep burning even if they leave the fire area, and obviously die after a few ticks of damage

It would make it a more skill dependent ability while maintaining its area denial

(SaulWolfden) #13

[quote=“els;194864”][quote=“LMuerteMan;194641”]
I think there is a fragger for that. If you do that fragger is next to useless comparing its ability to skyhammer [/quote]
So you think that Fragger is too similar to Skyhammer? How about comparing Fragger to Stoker?

This @$!# has ammo (which Fragger can’t have), while both of them have a grenade that insta-kills in most cases. Fragger’s Frag is supposed to be cooked for balance purposes, while Stoker’s @$!# nuke is “throw-and-forget”. But wait, there is more!
Fragger’s Frag DOESN’T explode on impact, while Stoker’s OP ability just @$!# under your feet.

Fragger has more HP and his Frag deals more damage. He’s perfectly equal to Skydad in terms of balance.
However my rant was on Skydad vs Stoker if you haven’t noticed.[/quote]

Stoker’s Molotov also takes over twice as long to recharge as Fragger’s grenade.

Also Skyhammer is the only other Fire Support that’s useful to any level indoors. Their niche is different, Skybro delivers a powerful air strike that can wipe out an ev or team. Stoker has a molotov that’s area denial, similar to Kira’s lazer.

(becomingModel) #14

I’m getting annoyed about the area where it spreads… I throw a molly into someone’s face, they ran backwards, The flame spreads in the opposite direction, They got away, GG I CRI

(SweetGenocide) #15

Eh… To be honest, the impact damage does enough damage, the tick also does enough damage and you’re forgeting the essential part of Stokers kit, with is area denying, his molotov is a distraction, sure you can use them offensivly but i would rather use them defensivly.

(UndeddJester) #16

Like others have said before, Stoker is well balanced, neither too strong or too weak.

I find he is kind of like Fragger, Skyhammer or Sawbones. He is one of those mercs that tends to get played by really good players, and as such starts to feel a little OP to go up against… then when you actually try it yourself, it is much harder than you think :slight_smile:

Unlike Fragger and Fletcher, the molly is not the strongest trait of Stoker. What makes Stoker so good is the fact his weaponry rewards good accuracy, and he is both durable and fast enough to fight toe to toe with most mercs. That really is his bread and butter. His ammo station allows him to set up and just fight (which is what he is good at) while still supporting his team, and unlike other supports his AoE is not denied by the environment.

Good Stokers exploit these traits, and almost never use a molly to burn down a full HP target. They usually use it to flush out medics, finish off enemies that are hiding from them, or denying a path to objectives at key moments.

He is not OP, any newbie or vet alike picking him up for the first time will attest to that, but in the right hands he is a fearsome opponent :slight_smile:

(Dysfnal) #17

I think he could be a teeny bit stronger, he has a very long cooldown in relation to how powerful his ability actually is, it being stronger than Fraggers nade? Sure it is, but it also has a 40 second cooldown

(Wolf_Darkrose) #18

be honest i think ping has a HUGE hit of the damage output of stokers stuff… think of it i have 30 ping that guy has 120 he throws on his end but mine shows nothing but the server makes it up in between… kinda like fletcher sticky if your low ping high ping players are so easy to slap onto

(Wolf_Darkrose) #19

[quote=“FatalJ;195218”]Like others have said before, Stoker is well balanced, neither too strong or too weak.

I find he is kind of like Fragger, Skyhammer or Sawbones. He is one of those mercs that tends to get played by really good players, and as such starts to feel a little OP to go up against… then when you actually try it yourself, it is much harder than you think :slight_smile:

Unlike Fragger and Fletcher, the molly is not the strongest trait of Stoker. What makes Stoker so good is the fact his weaponry rewards good accuracy, and he is both durable and fast enough to fight toe to toe with most mercs. That really is his bread and butter. His ammo station allows him to set up and just fight (which is what he is good at) while still supporting his team, and unlike other supports his AoE is not denied by the environment.

Good Stokers exploit these traits, and almost never use a molly to burn down a full HP target. They usually use it to flush out medics, finish off enemies that are hiding from them, or denying a path to objectives at key moments.

He is not OP, any newbie or vet alike picking him up for the first time will attest to that, but in the right hands he is a fearsome opponent :slight_smile:

[/quote]

95% of stoker is stopping enemy pile ups or completely cutting a route out he isnt really means for the front line

(Fractures) #20

you can stop nuking the dislike button now, christ