Stokers molotov is too strong

(Litego) #1

Does too much damage, often times you don’t have time to get out of the fire even though you react instantly or even before it lands.

(Mr-Penguin) #2

Fire spreads out in a circle from the impact point, so it’s easy to avoid/get out of if you’re close to the edge, especially in open areas.

It lands next to your feet (or worse, a direct hit) in a tight space or corridor? You’re dead.

(Litego) #3

Of course if you’re on the very edge you’ll most likely get out, but if not you’re pretty fucked almost regardless how fast you react. Even on the edge it’ll do significant damage.

(darlingClaymore) #4

That’s point. He should be able to. It might be frustrating but, he really has the low side of the ammo distribution (packs are better) and hes a average joe build, 120 hp 400 speed. Moltov makes him strong.

(Reddeadcap) #5

@derpypenguinz19 there are many mercs that can easily remove his molotov’s fire but the damage it does imho is insanely high, especially as there is a direct hit damage added to it, but then again it’s the second most obvious Fire support ability next to Kira’s pillar of fire.

That said, Litego has a point that the damage one takes from his grenades begins as soon as the grenade his a surface, the fires take a moment to animate so one is taking damage before the fire visibly spreads out or at least that has happened to me often.

(SereneFlight) #6

High damage abilities in DB? Wwwoooooaaahhh
If molotov’s too strong, Fragger’s nade must be OP as hell.

(Eox) #7

Overpowered, I don’t know. But I definitely have a grudge against the “explode on contact with anything” mechanic that makes it more used like a Frag Grenade without cooking than anything. The fact that a Stoker that you are fighting up close can just switch to the molotov and instantly throw it at your face and score an almost instant kill makes it extremely infuriating. While it’s somewhat easy to guess that Fragger is actually preparing a Frag that you won’t be able to guess anything with Stoker. Sure you should be rewarded for a direct hit, but the fact is, the few times I used Stoker, I could even get some instant kill just by throwing at someone’s feet without touching him. The DoT AoE seems to create itself instantly, and the initial radius does not seem to be that short either. This definitely needs testing, though it’s hard to try something that you only get once every 40 seconds.

Stoker was showed as an area denial merc, be the fact that he’s more used like a small Fragger by almost everyone who plays decently confuses me.

Not sure if I should suggest a fix because I feel like I’ll be disagreed to death, but my beta tester spirit tells me to do it anyway. Not sure if my observations are true, but I’ll base myself on what I noticed for my fix suggestion.

  • Reduce greatly the initial detonation radius. You can keep the damage though, a direct hit should be rewarded.
  • Base DoT AoE starts in very short radius but quickly expands. The AoE will take 1-1.2 seconds to spread to max range.
  • To compensate for those changes, extend the max fire AoE radius by 15-20%. Maybe more depending of how it goes.

It should feel way less infuriating like that IMO, yet still legit. Once again, before being fixed, we need some testing with the base Molotov, and probably a lot of it.

(WaffleMonster) #8

Frustrating to face? definitely, OP? no.
Whilst stoker is strong, his cooldown on his moly is long and doesn’t do a huge amount of damage too objectives. The other fire support mercs also have abilities that have very strong killing power, just at a greater range than the moly.

(SaulWolfden) #9

If his cooldown was as short as Fragger’s grenade, he would be op, it’s about twice as long. He can only use it about every 40 second as opposed to every 17 seconds. Direct hits aren’t always instant death to low hp mercs. It also doesn’t do that much damage to the EV, similar to Kira’s laser.

(SpinnerzNQ) #10

[quote=“derpypenguinz19;135904”]Fire spreads out in a circle from the impact point, so it’s easy to avoid/get out of if you’re close to the edge, especially in open areas.

It lands next to your feet (or worse, a direct hit) in a tight space or corridor? You’re dead.[/quote]

I wish it did! Alot of the times the fire would hit me, and I’d run away cuz I’d be like Thunder or something so I have enough to tank it. But the fire would practically chase me and if I survived, I’d turn around and the fire would seem to extend outward towards me instead of extending outward into a circle.

(Ballto) #11

i play a lot of stoker as well as proxy, and can fairly say the molotov is not overpowered.

It has a long cooldown. Very long for a grenade. About as long as other fire support abilities (even arties if you wait for both strikes to recharge)

Imagine if fraggers grenade had a 35 second cooldown instead of a 16 second one. If a stoker uses his molotov as a grenade to win a 1v1 engagement, he is probably doing something wrong. Not very wrong mind you, i do my fair share of OH TITS PRESS Q TO WIN, but if you use it for that purpose everytime it cools down youre not using it as well as you could.

you need to use the molotovs sparingly if you want to use stoker right, more often than not i save it even against three or more people in tight spaces and hold onto it for when they plant/go to defuse/repair/whatever to sneak behind and burn 2-5 of the enemy, even if i only get one or two kills it flushes them away to keep them out.

if the molly had a faster cooldown, YES. i would call for a nerf, but until it gets a 20 second cooldown its balanced by lack of spam and raw killing potential.

it cant wipe most of a team as reliably as a skyhammer or arty or anus, but kill one or two folks and keep them away from stuff for 10 seconds or less irf you smoke/explode it

(LifeupOmega) #12

[Area Denial Ability] is too OP. It does [Damage], this is offset by [Cooldown].

(WaffleMonster) #13

Kiras’ laser is also aerial denial.

(Mr-Penguin) #14

Kiras’ laser is also aerial denial.
[/quote]

But it’s focused and meant to kill players. People running away is a side effect.

(WaffleMonster) #15

Kiras’ laser is also aerial denial.
[/quote]

But it’s focused and meant to kill players. People running away is a side effect.[/quote]

What I mean by area denial is sticking it on a planted bomb to prevent a defuse or to block of a doorway. In certain situations this is a better use of the laser than going for kills.

(Mr-Penguin) #16

Kiras’ laser is also aerial denial.
[/quote]

But it’s focused and meant to kill players. People running away is a side effect.[/quote]

What I mean by area denial is sticking it on a planted bomb to prevent a defuse or to block of a doorway. In certain situations this is a better use of the laser than going for kills.[/quote]

Easier done with a molotov.

(WaffleMonster) #17

Not when you can pull a laser from the other side of the map without putting yourself at risk and denying the enemy a defuse.

(Mr-Penguin) #18

Depends on the map though.

Terminal 1st stage? Hell yes.

Underground 2nd? Not really.

(triteCherry) #19

Kiras’ laser is also aerial denial.
[/quote]

But it’s focused and meant to kill players. People running away is a side effect.[/quote]

What I mean by area denial is sticking it on a planted bomb to prevent a defuse or to block of a doorway. In certain situations this is a better use of the laser than going for kills.[/quote]

Easier done with a molotov.[/quote]

Actually once it’s set, there is nothing the enemy team can do about it. Molotov you can extinguish it pretty easy, you can also set a smoke grenade on the objective making the objective fireproof for the duration of the smoke. Laser has no such counter.

(watsyurdeal) #20

It needs a god damn arm time without cooking, that way you can’t panic molotov anymore.