State of Play - Maps, maps, maps!


(Exedore) #1

There hasn’t really been an update on this since my post at the end of April, so we wanted to flesh out the vision of how we want to the maps to play and where we are on the road to achieving it.

I’d mentioned our pillars for the game, and this is what they have to say about where we’re going with our maps and the specific gameplay that we want to foster:

WE <3 OBJECTIVE-BASED GAMEPLAY

This has been one of Splash Damage’s gameplay hallmarks for over a decade now. Objectives help to create an ebb and flow to multiplayer gaming that resembles a strength of single player content (3 act structures in single player games, film, theater, etc.), and create a naturally fertile ground for interesting player stories.

KEY POINTS

  • [li]Objectives should advance and change the battlefield[/li]Advancing through a map means that the layout changes over the course of a match, allowing for changes in gameplay and tactics and variety overall.
    [li]Secondary should objectives relax chokepoints and open up new tactical possibilities[/li]Because objectives draw players to particular locations as attackers or defenders, they create chokepoints in the surrounding geometry. Secondary objectives should strengthen or weaken these chokepoints, based on the tactical decisions of the attackers and defenders.
    At a high level, secondaries should be away from the primary routes, so that teams interacting with them pushes and pulls the action away from the primary objectives. We’re not where we want to be with this across all the maps as they exist now, but we’re taking steps to get there.

WE WANT TO CREATE EMERGENT ASYMMETRICAL EXPERIENCES

One team attacking while the other defends creates an asymmetrical multiplayer experience, and the structure of our characters and roles combined with story-based primary and secondary objectives creates matches which have uniquely themed narratives that still play out differently every time.

KEY POINTS

  • [li]Maps should support a variety of viable tactics[/li]With different characters available, routes to take and objectives to target, there needs to be a space rich with tactical choice.
    [li]The battlefield situation should evolve to challenge players to react with different characters and strategies[/li]Progressing through the map should change the nature of the objectives and the spaces, which helps keep a match from feeling repetitive.
    [li]Players who utilise the array of available characters should have much greater success and tactical possibilities[/li]Maps and objectives need to be designed to minimise the effectiveness of particular characters above others, so that tactical possibilities are magnified by considered character selection.

This is the logic that has been driving the way that we’ve been altering the maps, and will continue to do so… we have a lot more planned!


A wireframe highlight of a work in progress Whitechapel

THE MAPS

WHAT HAPPENED TO HACKING OBJECTIVES?
You’ll also notice that in the latest patch Hacking has been removed as an objective type. We did this because mechanically it was identical to other objectives, and we’re making a concerted effort to avoid prolonged “stand in one spot looking at another spot” interactions. It’s why you’ll now only find repair objectives as secondaries or EV repairs; they’re always relatively short, and especially so for Mercs with blowtorches.

SPAWN CAMPING
We definitely agree that this is a major issue in some areas of the game, and will be looking at adding more viable exits from spawns where these issues are occurring. Our ultimate goal is that spawn camping rarely occurs in matches.

WALL-HOPPING, LONG-JUMPING & TRAVEL TIMES
As we work on targeted improvements for each map, we’ll also be looking at how we can better support wall-hopping and long-jumping, and normalising the average travel times to objectives for attackers and defenders to better fit the newly fixed spawn wave timers. We do want the attackers to have a slight advantage to help drive the progress on a given map.

[center]A blockout map used to quickly iterate upon larger design elements
________________________________________[/CENTER]

Here’s a bit more detail about each map in particular:

UNDERGROUND (AKA CANARY WHARF)
Since we’re not using Hacks anymore, the Hack objective has been replaced with a C4 plant. We’ve removed one of the secondaries on the initial capture objective, as essentially at least one of the secondaries needed to be completed to complete the primary, and this wasn’t quite in line with the guidelines that I’ve posted above.
We plan to adjust the positioning of the doors so that they’re not in such close proximity to the primary objective, as well as add more routes out of the spawns areas.

WHITECHAPEL
We’re looking at adding a secondary objective to the escort segment to help relax the chokepoint and create some back and forth away from the EV itself. We’re also adding some markers to the escort route to denote the spots where the spawns switch based on the EV’s progress.
We plan to adjust some of the geometry in the final section to work better for the Carry objective, and have the secondary have more meaningful impact in that section as well.

TRAINYARD (AKA CAMDEN)
The Hack objective in the first section will be replaced with a Capture objective. We also feel that this map is a little short for our targeted play time, so we’re looking at adding a Carry objective before the final C4 plant, and then iterating on the geometry in that area to support the new gameplay.

TERMINAL (AKA WATERLOO, VICTORIA)
We have a lot that we want to do with Terminal, so it is a lead candidate to be taken offline for major surgery in the near future. We need to ensure that the secondaries are better fitting our stated goals, and do some substantial geometry adjustments to alleviate the chokepoints for the attackers at the start of the map.

BRIDGE
We want to only have one live version of Bridge, but we thought the alternate Carry geometry from Bridge_Alt was an improvement, so we’ll be implementing that in Bridge in the future. As with Whitechapel, we’ll also look at where we can add effective secondaries to address the chokepoints along the escort route.

DOME & DOCKYARD (AKA MAP06 & BATTERSEA)
We’ll continue to test Dome and Dockyard in blockout form for a while longer, as they’re much easier to iterate and improve on in that form. Dome’s second half is particularly targeted for improvements, and we’re looking at adjusting the first half of Dockyard to improve the angles of the front.

I hope this gives everybody a better picture of where we feel we are with the maps in Dirty Bomb right now, and in what direction we want them to head. They’re probably the most labour-intensive aspect of the game and therefore take the longest to manifest changes, even though you all are living and dying in them on a match to match basis… and that’s why we need them to be great!


(BomBaKlaK) #2

Thx for all this ! finally communication !


(MrFunkyFunk) #3

Thanks for the post.

Whitechapel: I’m really missing the chapel objective, it was really a fun stage in the older versions of the map. A sort of “break” from the rail-driven corridor gameplay that the map is. I know people wanted a faster completable version of the map for comp, but in pub I always enjoyed that stage as def or attack.

Camden: bring back a full, 4 objs, version of the map for pub. It could be older iterations to really make a distinction between trainyard and the old camden.
It was a large map with a lot of running and it made the game feel a lot less grindy, you know that once you killed someone you wouldn’t see them 2 seconds later and it allowed people to roam around.
I keep all the screenshots I’ve taken through the alpha & beta and some older Camden maps had really enjoyable parts (1st & 2nd obj have had some great iterations, 3rd was always great and 4th really needed work).

I know you don’t want to create differences between pub & comp but the current iterations of the map are a snooze fest in pub: people get dozens upon dozens of kills in a meatgrind oriented gameplay which make the whole thing feel completely pointless and a re-enactment of the previous games.
Let’s not even talk about maps like Trainyard when the teams aren’t balanced in pub. Maps completed in 4 mins won’t make people stick around.

In the last builds I’ve only really enjoyed WC and I’m not completely sure it’s because of the objs changes or if it’s just a night-time map /sarcasm

If you get your act together and finally tackle the maps design, along well-thought spawn mechanics, the game will take a huge leap forward in the right direction.


(RasteRayzeR) #4

Lot of what I read looks promising and most of the maps can be significantly improved on already if they stop featuring multiple routes that all join in a single point. In the same way, most of the maps would benefit from increasing the size of the rooms, corridors and roads as well. Many abilities are limited currently (mainly the airstrikes) because of the narrow design of the maps. Another point is about being in a city. I would like to see more accessible flats and small streets to provide covers. I have never really understood why the maps don’t show more the scars of war. Trash up the place !

Also I don’t know how comfortable you are with multi-paths scenarios ? Like having a choice to construct one or the other objective and change the turn of future events for the game. Like being able to choose routes with the EV or have objectives where the team has to choose to open one way, and hence close another one. Maybe like a crane that can lift only one container to open a road and you have to choose which container to lift (out of two possible ways, or three). Then if the selected way doesn’t work, you have a small time penalty to open the other route and change tactics. This is the kind of side objectives that are very tightly-close to the main objective, and they can alter a lot the way the game turns out.

Finally the interaction level with the maps is not that great, and I really wish to see more of it. Things like finding a destroyed EV and repair it for a one shot per map with it’s rocket launcher, or the ability to directly manipulate cranes, etc. This can reinforce the team spirit and the level of involvement in the game imho.

My two cents for side objectives that matter:

  • barricades to block routes
  • real forward spawns
  • command posts to reduce spawn time
  • covers that can be constructed/destroyed
  • enable the use of local infrastructures (cranes, lifts, etc.)

[QUOTE=MrFunkyFunk;505564]Thanks for the post.

Whitechapel: I’m really missing the chapel objective, it was really a fun stage in the older versions of the map. A sort of “break” from the rail-driven corridor gameplay that the map is. I know people wanted a faster completable version of the map for comp, but in pub I always enjoyed that stage as def or attack.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, it reminded me of the church in the map Venice of W:ET. Could be used as a forward spawn or a command center.


(Kl3ppy) #5

That would be cool :slight_smile:

I hope you can find a way to bring back the 4rd Objective from Camden back to trainyard.


(BomBaKlaK) #6

We all want larger maps ! and or longer maps with real side obj like said before.
Since the half cut surgery I really hate 100% of the maps


(Ruben0s) #7

Thanks for the update.

Will you also develop some bigger maps for public play (maps that are not designed around 5vs5)?


(montheponies) #8

Appreciate the post Exedore, but i have a significant concern with the design rules v the stated main game mode (Stopwatch).

From experience, serial objective maps have been chosen for primarily pub play, thinking along the lines of Tram here, which is an excellent map but really not suited to 6v6 (or 5v5) competitive play. That map was large, albeit it was played in two distinct stages, half of the map became redundant after the initial objective was blown, which was fine as the second stage was still a reasonably large map with an outdoor and indoor section.

At the moment the maps in DB seem a lot smaller because you have a reasonably sized map getting chunked into 2 or 3 sections which don’t ebb and flow. you either get stuck at an objective which means playing the same small map section, or progress onto the next small map section. Very rarely do you have the freedom and incentive to play the entire map.

If you dont make the map section bigger they are always going to feel really constrained. If you do make them bigger they are going to be horrible to play in Stopwatch.

I would suggest having a go at one blockout map that just contains a single primary objective and a couple of secondaries, including a capturable/re-capturable forward spawn. This should be on a medium sized map - if it could include snow and be called, say, Frostbite, all the better.

Failing that I honestly can’t see how this is going to end well :confused:


(Mustang) #9

Really sad to see more capture objectives, just get rid of them completely. :frowning:

Hack objectives might be similar to construct objectives but that’s no reason to get rid of them, if anything I’d rather see the same mechanic applied to a wider variety of situations to diversify things, construct, hack, repair, push, cut, weld, etc. all of these could be the exact same mechanic just with different aesthetics and animations to keep the maps from getting samey. :mad:


(Exedore) #10

This is a topic of conversation currently.


(Kl3ppy) #11

To get rid of all capture objectives or to transform all objectives into capture objectives?


(rookie1) #12

WHAT HAPPENED TO HACKING OBJECTIVES?
You’ll also notice that in the latest patch Hacking has been removed as an objective type. We did this because mechanically it was identical to other objectives, and we’re making a concerted effort to avoid prolonged “stand in one spot looking at another spot” interactions. It’s why you’ll now only find repair objectives as secondaries or EV repairs; they’re always relatively short, and especially so for Mercs with blowtorches
.
I’m confused here not fully understanding this.

Imo an capture aera should be to set an new advance spawn place and a fast acomplish tasks : you battle in an aera for x secs you will now have a new adv spawm if you resist .
to be faster than the old hack obj eg 1st trainyard

Short Hacking : for all secondary obj (cover panel ,opening new path (doors…little stuff ))
Longer Hacking :Some Primary objectives
(edited)( maybe also make Ev first objec(WC)not a repair one but a Load EV)

All Sec object. should be Fast accomplish tasks and Prim Obj Longer acc tasks


(Exedore) #13

Great idea! You all know who to glare at. :oppressor:


(BomBaKlaK) #14

Remove them completely from Obj / Sw mod !!! Keep them for another game mod !


(Glottis-3D) #15

Bridge 1stage
this stage is not good, because it was made around different Object placement. There were 2 back routes there! but it was way too small and meat-grindy. now that Object is in another place those previous routes need to be changed, prolonged. we do need a proper back-route. layout changes in the bridge-house area are needed. not that is is beyond fix. no. but i doubt this stage will become awesome, without big layout changes.


(trickykungfu) #16

so this will take place in the next 5 years? XD


(PixelTwitch) #17

The battlefield situation should evolve to challenge players to react with different characters and strategies Progressing through the map should change the nature of the objectives and the spaces, which helps keep a match from feeling repetitive.

This single line is exactly what I did not what to hear…
Its effectively patching a fundamental problem with nothing more then duck tape.
ie, match starts feeling repetitive? don’t worry, mess around with random mercs! FUN!

Sure I want you to remove the 3 merc rule of public server browser matches, I just really hoped we was going to see a push towards drafting in matchmaking…

This after having my account “banned” / no longer working I feel could be it for me :frowning:
Good luck though.


(Glottis-3D) #18

Capture-Object
this can be used for spawn-points. several seconds of capture. also works for open-slow-doors.
for main object this just doesnt work. not exciting at all. because noone sacrifises his gun for the object.

as for Hack-ocject removal:
you do lose an opportunity to make snepirs proficiency make a difference (imagine a map with 2 secondaries - one hack, and one build. both leading to different tactics)


(BomBaKlaK) #19

[QUOTE=krokodealer;505593]Bridge 1stage
this stage is not good, because it was made around different Object placement. There were 2 back routes there! but it was way too small and meat-grindy. now that Object is in another place those previous routes need to be changed, prolonged. we do need a proper back-route. layout changes in the bridge-house area are needed. not that is is beyond fix. no. but i doubt this stage will become awesome, without big layout changes.[/QUOTE]

This is the case in most of the layouts, not only bridge.
All maps need a real rework, with decent travel time, more space to fight (not only narrow corridors), objective rework and definitely more routes / tricks / secondary access.

But finally it’s nice to see you at work on this HUGE problem.


(INF3RN0) #20

Great read overall, but when can we expect to see this in action? I’d love to see some in-house screenshots of new map layouts as they progress or brief summaries/updates on these kinds of tests. Constructive insight can be offered even at the early stages imo. It sucks that some people discourage the transparency with the community, but I’ve been feeling increasingly useless as a “VIP” since pre-alpha and I’m hoping that reverses.