So now that Kira and Arty have been going on free rotate, a lot of people are starting to use the Stark. And it seems like it’s ALOT better than it used to be. It’s really hard to compete against, even as a heavier class like Skyhammer or Fragger.
Did it get a buff recently? And if so, why was it a liiiiittle bit of an overbuff?
It was actually nerfed a few patches ago and has now a good spot in the game. It rewards skill while not being completely op when used right.
Burst fire rifles got reworked about one month ago to make them more “bursty”.
They got increased damage at the cost of increased burst delay.
They’re very powerful but require a bit of patience to be used effectively.
I will disagree with this until the end of days. The burst rifles were only “OP” in theory due to their damage potential if you hit every single burst cycle perfectly and all of your shots. Which wasn’t possible in a real game because of the recoil/spread mechanics. The recoil/spread was insane on them during hipfire and ADS recoil was pretty awful too.
So on paper they were nerfed in regards to damage potential but in actual usage they were buffed with the changes. Especially when the input buffer window for the next burst was increased a couple of patches ago making it less likely to screw up the next burst.
There is a reason why a ton of high end players now use burst rifles when they didn’t before. And it’s not because the other guns were nerfed. They haven’t been touched.
I will disagree with this until the end of days. The burst rifles were only “OP” in theory due to their damage potential if you hit every single burst cycle perfectly and all of your shots. Which wasn’t possible in a real game because of the recoil/spread mechanics. The recoil/spread was insane on them during hipfire and ADS recoil was pretty awful too.
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I and many other people had no problem consistently chaining head shots with the old burst rifles. Their spread was tight and I didn’t even notice the recoil. The only downside of the old burst rifles was their dpm.
If used properly, the burst rifles are way more effective than the full auto’s basically just because of their dps. I don’t actually know if the BR-16 or the Stark has a higher dps, because I know the Stark does 2hp more damage but it does have a smaller clip and a slightly longer reload time, but there is no question about it that in an individual battle, the Stark is the clear winner.
Plus the Stark’s scope is pretty handy. Although the BR-16 has slightly less recoil and is more accurate at range, the iron sights in this game are bloody terrible so it just feels impossible to aim in comparison to the Stark at very long distances.
But dps isn’t everything. The burst rifles are harder to aim generally speaking, particularly in 1v1 strafe battles. So it’s pretty hit and miss. Each to their own really.
I know players who could very well control it, ever played with Subzstance? That guy could wipe a whole team with the old BR-16 firing it at top speed.
I know players who could very well control it, ever played with Subzstance? That guy could wipe a whole team with the old BR-16 firing it at top speed.[/quote]
Nope. I never saw or played against anybody who dominated with it in actual high end competitive play. Anybody could be “good” with it. Hell, I was good with it. However, nobody I knew or heard of would would legitimately pick it over the M4…something you see pretty often now. Again, the gun was great in theory and was usable but due to the recoil/spread you couldn’t even come close to getting it’s maximum DPS potential in most situations.
Do you have any videos of Subzstance or anybody using the BR16/Stark in a tournament before the changes that chose it over the M4 and wasn’t just using them because they were on Arty or Kira? Specifically footage of them wiping whole teams consistently with it.
I know players who could very well control it, ever played with Subzstance? That guy could wipe a whole team with the old BR-16 firing it at top speed.[/quote]
Nope. I never saw or played against anybody who dominated with it in actual high end competitive play. Anybody could be “good” with it. Hell, I was good with it. However, nobody I knew or heard of would would legitimately pick it over the M4…something you see pretty often now. Again, the gun was great in theory and was usable but due to the recoil/spread you couldn’t even come close to getting it’s maximum DPS potential in most situations.
Do you have any videos of Subzstance or anybody using the BR16/Stark in a tournament before the changes that chose it over the M4 and wasn’t just using them because they were on Arty or Kira? Specifically footage of them wiping whole teams consistently with it.[/quote]
Eh, he wasn’t in any clan during the old BR times, but here’s the only webm that I could find of him playing comp:
I know players who could very well control it, ever played with Subzstance? That guy could wipe a whole team with the old BR-16 firing it at top speed.[/quote]
Nope. I never saw or played against anybody who dominated with it in actual high end competitive play. Anybody could be “good” with it. Hell, I was good with it. However, nobody I knew or heard of would would legitimately pick it over the M4…something you see pretty often now. Again, the gun was great in theory and was usable but due to the recoil/spread you couldn’t even come close to getting it’s maximum DPS potential in most situations.
Do you have any videos of Subzstance or anybody using the BR16/Stark in a tournament before the changes that chose it over the M4 and wasn’t just using them because they were on Arty or Kira? Specifically footage of them wiping whole teams consistently with it.[/quote]
Eh, he wasn’t in any clan during the old BR times, but here’s the only webm that I could find of him playing comp:
https://boards.fireden.net/foolfuuka/boards/vg/image/1445/79/1445794927987.webm[/quote]
That clip perfectly shows off why the burst rifles were good on paper and not in practice. Notice how fast he fired yet didn’t do a ton of damage because the bullets were all over the place? He panic fired and barely killed two people out of 27 rounds at nearly point blank range. Which was the only range the gun was even good at if you didn’t panic fire it. And an M4 typically did as good or better of a job in the same situation with a lot more control.
I’m sure he’s a great player so I’m not trying to dig at his skill at all. But this clip shows exactly what I was talking about with how you had to spray and pray with it. The newer mechanics are much more reliable in the same situations and rely more on clicking when you’re on target rather than cycling through ammo as fast as possible while hoping you hit and can control the bullet spray/recoil well enough.
I know players who could very well control it, ever played with Subzstance? That guy could wipe a whole team with the old BR-16 firing it at top speed.[/quote]
Nope. I never saw or played against anybody who dominated with it in actual high end competitive play. Anybody could be “good” with it. Hell, I was good with it. However, nobody I knew or heard of would would legitimately pick it over the M4…something you see pretty often now. Again, the gun was great in theory and was usable but due to the recoil/spread you couldn’t even come close to getting it’s maximum DPS potential in most situations.
Do you have any videos of Subzstance or anybody using the BR16/Stark in a tournament before the changes that chose it over the M4 and wasn’t just using them because they were on Arty or Kira? Specifically footage of them wiping whole teams consistently with it.[/quote]
Eh, he wasn’t in any clan during the old BR times, but here’s the only webm that I could find of him playing comp:
https://boards.fireden.net/foolfuuka/boards/vg/image/1445/79/1445794927987.webm[/quote]
That clip perfectly shows off why the burst rifles were good on paper and not in practice. Notice how fast he fired yet didn’t do a ton of damage because the bullets were all over the place? He panic fired and barely killed two people out of 27 rounds at nearly point blank range. Which was the only range the gun was even good at if you didn’t panic fire it. And an M4 typically did as good or better of a job in the same situation with a lot more control.
I’m sure he’s a great player so I’m not trying to dig at his skill at all. But this clip shows exactly what I was talking about with how you had to spray and pray with it. The newer mechanics are much more reliable in the same situations and rely more on clicking when you’re on target rather than cycling through ammo as fast as possible while hoping you hit and can control the bullet spray/recoil well enough.[/quote]
Ehm he killed a 110 HP merc, a 200 HP one and had another one with 100 HP almost dead, considering the old mag efficiency of the BR was quite low that’s pretty big damage output in a very short time which was what the BR was good at, very fast takedowns in exchange for low ammo.
well, they weren’t exactly fighting back persay -_-, but that was a nice clip of a triple kill
The Bushwhacker wasn’t at full HP at the start of that fight. He caught one bullet of a burst in the shoulder before the HP bar came up which was at 1/4 at that point, the Rhino wasn’t at full HP (he was the one who was killed at the start) but he did catch a quick heal from the Phoenix during the fight. I didn’t see the Phoenix’s HP the first time I watched it but he did actually take legit damage even if it was incidental due to him still tracking the falling Bushwhacker for the most part.
Is there a video showing him or anybody doing this consistently over and over again in high end competitive play (hell, I’d even take regular pubs) and from ranges that aren’t optimal for spray and pray and aren’t in a small doorway? I can show you a clip of me killing 5 or 6 people with the MK46 in a very short period of time. That doesn’t make it a great gun. And that doesn’t mean I did it all game and every single game consistently.
Would you say that the BR16/Stark was better back then at medium or longer ranges? The main gripe with the burst rifles is that they weren’t consistent at most ranges. The M4 was always more reliable up close, medium and far. Now it can be argued that the burst rifles, in almost all situations, are just as reliable and possibly more reliable than the m4. You don’t need a bunch of people coming out of a small door like it is a clown car to try and get legit mileage out of the current burst rifles. And they don’t require cheesy scroll wheeling and situations like this to get consistent results.
I have tons and tons of full videos showing off what the current BR and Stark can do, consistently, at all ranges. So do many other players. Yet none that I’ve seen exist of the old BR and Stark that are more than little montage clips like this which you can have with any gun.
Considering my own experience and that of others I know who are great players and feel pretty much the same way, I’ll simply reiterate what I said above in that the newer burst rifle mechanics are better than the old. More consistency, more control, more reliance, better ammo efficiency and better at range while also being easier to use > using a scroll wheel for max theoretical dps at close ranges. So we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one 
It was barely touched. 10% vertical recoil doesn’t matter since you already should be firing it and pulling down slightly. The spready change isn’t bad because it barely had spread to begin with. I used it and the GR all night tonight and had crazy good success with both.
Late to the topic, but I’ve actually found the Stark to be a LOT less reliable than it was before.
Obviously everything is subjective and all that, could just be having a bunch of really bad days, but I’m pretty sure I used to perform much better with it than before. Max spread seems to be all over the place now.
60 hours with this rifle out, I hope that gives me some credibility.
[quote=“Matuno;153618”]Late to the topic, but I’ve actually found the Stark to be a LOT less reliable than it was before.
Obviously everything is subjective and all that, could just be having a bunch of really bad days, but I’m pretty sure I used to perform much better with it than before. Max spread seems to be all over the place now.
60 hours with this rifle out, I hope that gives me some credibility.[/quote]
My accuracy since the change has actually gone up a bit and my subjective feelings is it didn’t change much in feel. Combine that with the fact that the actual numbers also barely changed and it gives me the opinion that you’ve had some bad days. Or my style of firing the weapon is different than yours and so the changes affected me a lot less where it dramatically affected your style.
[quote=“Amerika;153682”][quote=“Matuno;153618”]Late to the topic, but I’ve actually found the Stark to be a LOT less reliable than it was before.
Obviously everything is subjective and all that, could just be having a bunch of really bad days, but I’m pretty sure I used to perform much better with it than before. Max spread seems to be all over the place now.
60 hours with this rifle out, I hope that gives me some credibility.[/quote]
My accuracy since the change has actually gone up a bit and my subjective feelings is it didn’t change much in feel. Combine that with the fact that the actual numbers also barely changed and it gives me the opinion that you’ve had some bad days. Or my style of firing the weapon is different than yours and so the changes affected me a lot less where it dramatically affected your style.[/quote]
Possibly. I do tend to spam the weapon when fairly close, and I hardly ever ADS.
I ADS a lot at longer ranges. And I pull down when I fire when firing mid to long range. I highly recommend both. Especially if you’re using the Stark card with Drilled and Focus. Focus lets you pull up your sights a lot faster which is actually quite handy with the weapon.