Splash Damage - You better not do this!

(tokamak) #61

None of that has anything to do with what we’ve been talking about.

(Nikto) #62

yes well, the discussion doesn’t seem to have any effect either way. there’s the people who don’t see the problem, there’s the people who can’t see why it would be a problem for some to have one more gun than the other. and there’s the people who make a fuss about it because it, in some indescernible way, gives them an advantage.

if it has slightly different stats, but works exactly like a gun that’s available to everyone. would that dispose of the problem then?

(tokamak) #63

If it has slightly different stats it clearly does not work exactly like a gun that’s available to everyone. Dishing out extra options to other players for money is selling them advantages. That’s crossing the line for me, no matter how small that advantage might be.

(Mad Hatter) #64

I don’t really consider it an advantage. While having more options than your opponent can potentially create situations in which your weapon is more effective than your opponent’s, I don’t consider that reason enough not to offer more options to players in the first place. I just don’t think anyone is ever going to be in a postion where they’re like: “Oh man, if only I had been using that one gun from the DLC, I wouldn’t have died!” or “Oh man, if that guy hadn’t been using that one gun from the DLC I wouldn’t have died!”

But of course that is just my humble opinion. And obviously I would prefer it if we just got new weapons and stuff for free, but I’m willing to shell out a few dollars if the DLC seems worth it. What I don’t like is stuff like preorder bonuses, which aren’t available to everyone. Then it becomes a case of you either get it on time or you can’t get it at all, rather than a case of you want it vs. you don’t want it.

(Nikto) #65

nvm…

and like Hatter said, i really can’t see someone think “if only i had that gun” or “if only he didn’t have that gun”. i can’t see how having one more gun gives an advantage at all…
it’s not like your carrying them all at the same time so you have more ammo than anyone else, it’s not like your going to be more deadly, it just shows you were there from the start…
just like the customization options

(General_Zod) #66

OK, point taken. I actually didn’t mean to say the ET/ETQW xp system was perfect. I meant if you are going to use upgrades, than it’s a good enough system.

I’m actually used to the old days where there were no upgrades and everyone had the same weapons.

And to the other who said you’ll unlock the majority of them in a couple of days anyway, then what’s the point in the first place?

I just look at TF2 and get the vibe people think (or companies think) that that was a successful implementation of upgrades. It’s downright ridiculous the amount of weapons/toys they keep coming out with.

I’ve never played ET/ETQW and thought, ‘ya know, this game would be so much better if it only had 30 more toys in it’

Solid gameplay mechanics, good balanced maps, and classes that compliment each other is all I want. The rest of the stuff wreaks of ‘hey kids! look at all the toys we’re going to offer in this game!!!’

But I still have hope because it’s SD or otherwise I wouldn’t even be posting.

(BioSnark) #67

Never played et/etqw and thought, “So glad these upgrades are ridiculously unbalanced. I sure hope Splash Damage doesn’t try to make balanced upgrades in the future.”

Not a huge fan of unlocks/upgrades in pvp mp but that’s what Splash Damage does. That being the case, I’d prefer them balanced but permanent to how they were in previous titles.

The rest of the stuff wreaks of ‘hey kids! look at all the toys we’re going to offer in this game!!!’
Obviously they’re aiming to go beyond where they’ve been before. Hope ID will be looking into that with doom 4. Seems people only complain about static series, franchises or developers when it’s a static succession of products they don’t like (cod, halo, or what-have-you). I still love doom1/2 but was/will be looking for a lot more in doom3/4.

(Apples) #68

Still fail to see how buying a better gun doesnt look ridiculously stupid to some people… Wake up, its mp, if some richer guyz can have the better gun its plain stupid, well I’ll kill them all anyway, but still…

Preorder bonuses are also stupid IMO, its just that blind people will be more entitled to preorder without even a demo cuz they can have a pinker hatz… Oh yeah enjoy!

I can agree to some extent that “its the market” etc… type of argument, but not seeing the point that bying better gun is weird seems silly to me.

Meh enjoy.

(BioSnark) #69

^

I agree but with some reservations. Firstly, they’re not primary weapons and secondly, if I am going to buy SD’s line that their unlocks / upgrades are not unbalanced then I’m also going to assume that these weapons are not “better” than stock. That doesn’t mean that it’s okay that they’re there, just that they’re less of a concern.

Also, the preorder price is supposed to match the retail price so, in theory, it doesn’t ‘sell more guns to richer people’, but people willing to buy without demo/reviews. There may be a correlation between the two but the statement still isn’t entirely valid.

(LyndonL) #70

[QUOTE=General Zod;244561]I’m actually used to the old days where there were no upgrades and everyone had the same weapons.

And to the other who said you’ll unlock the majority of them in a couple of days anyway, then what’s the point in the first place?[/QUOTE]

Times they are a-changing. People want more diversity in their shooters these days. They have to pander to the market. I don’t care either way, but I must admit it does feel like an achievement when you unlock something new in a game. It becomes a mini milestone - something to work towards. That alone puts a singleplayer element into multiplayer games.

And as to the second sentence: I’m pretty sure they’ve also said that if you want to change abilities that you’re using it will cost you XP aswell. XP is the driving factor to coherce people into working as a team, and yes you’re right if it’s all unlocked real quick there is no point in even having XP. But by making every change to your outfit (not just clothing, but abilities, and weapon loadouts) cost XP, it means you constantly have to accrue XP to allow it. And therefore the system is not useless (until you’ve tried all the combos and found the perfect outfit for yourself).

(Nikto) #71

the idea behind these preorders was to show who was there from the start. a small thank you for those who supported it prior to release.

it’s sad for those who only got to know it later, but, if you sell it later, or give it out for free, then you can’t see who was there from the start anymore, can you?

and DLC imo, is bad, either it’s an expansion, for wich you have to pay, but wich should have a lot of new stuff. or it’s an update, wich should be free.
not a DLC that costs you but gives you nothing much.

(Apples) #72

Being there from the start =! preordering… People can be there and participate in Q&A, posting some concerns etc and not preorder without a demo for some obvious reasons.

@Biosnark, yes its not a uber big concern there, its more a general statement about the “new” gaming industry and global market that drives me a bit mad, I can buy a game if its good, asking all my mates / clanmates to buy it and making stuffs for the community without the need to preorder or to pay charges for DLC or whatever its called.

Peace

(Nikto) #73

[QUOTE=Apples;244576]Being there from the start =! preordering… People can be there and participate in Q&A, posting some concerns etc and not preorder without a demo for some obvious reasons.

Peace[/QUOTE]

well, that’d mean you still had doubts and weren’t totally supporting it.

(Apples) #74

Indeed, because i wont spend money till I know for sure the game will fit my exigances… Supporting a company blindly is not what I call smart!

I’ll support the game if it fits what I’m waiting for, and I’ll help thr growth of the community if I can, will ask friends to buy it etc… I wont do that before I’m convinced that the game will be at least 80% of my expectations.

Peace

(Nail) #75

lol, pre-orders originally were to ensure you would get the game on release day, but with manufacturing and distribution methods available today there’s no worries, pre-ordering on Steam is even more laughable, what do you get ? a five minute headstart on the download que ?
Now pre orders are just advance market research, pre-orders sell well, up the advertising, not so well, eeeh, leave it to G4 a la Actvicious

(SockDog) #76

If you need to balance upgrades by culling the playerbase with matchmaking (and offering the ability to opt-in to playing uneven opponents is just a cop out) then the system is screwed.

I’ll live with XP and permanent upgrades (and maybe through SD’s genius enjoy them) but I’ll accept them as a consequence of appealing to the CoD crowd and not necessarily a natural evolution of SD’s previous efforts. The <drama> backlash </drama> when ETQW was released and upgrades were not persistent and CoD general success spell this out for me. Maybe SD truly think this is an original move isolated from that influence but I’ve heard nothing to indicate as such.

(Crytiqal) #77

If they want to give pre-orders a special weapon, maybe they should just get a headstart of say, 1000 xp or something to unlock the weapon at will?

That way, people are still able to get the same stuff as the pre-orders if they buy the game at a later time, and the people who pre-ordered it have some extra fun the first few days.

(H0RSE) #78

If they want to give pre-orders a special weapon, maybe they should just get a headstart of say, 1000 xp or something to unlock the weapon at will?

The weapons/items offered to those who pre-order, aren’t simply about getting a “head start.” It’s about gaining access to things that can only be achieved through pre-ordering, even if the weapons were absolute garbage.

(Nikto) #79

yea, i can’t see how getting it earlier than the rest can show others that you were there from the start.
it’d just show you were there a day earlier than the guy who just got in and doesn’t even know about that…

(tokamak) #80

Then you agree that is an advantage regardless, you just don’t think it’s a big advantage. It offers players a higher fidelity in adapting to situations. I don’t think it’s a big advantage either but I think it crosses the line especially considering it’s implemented to please Walmart, of all branches. I still think better of SD than to do that but suppose they did offer in-game advantages for money, then that would be sending a clear message out to everyone that the game’s integrity is for sale, at a pretty low price at that.

Also, I don’t have problems with exclusive weaponry and upgrades. I actually think that being forced to chose between two upgrades/weapons at some points in the game with no turning back could be pretty fun. It creates unique set-ups where players are always slightly different from each other. But that’s completely a different thing than selling advantages.