Splash Damage omitted K/D and made XP spread this way for a VERY GOOD REASON

(fearlessfox) #1

I have a lot of experience with FPS. Maybe not the most experience in the world, but I have played competitively with a few games, and I’ve been an active gamer within the genre for fifteen years.

One of the single most frustrating aspects of online play is when an OBJ based mode is released for a popular game.

With /every single/ FPS I’ve experienced there has always been a very large percentage of players who consider K/D ratio to be the be-all-and-end-all of proven ability.

I’ve lost count of the amount of times I’ve asked my teammates to help CTF, or KotH, or OBJ this or OBJ that to be told “get a better K/D kid” or “when you get to my level, then you can talk”, even though I’m ahead of them on objective points.

This makes any kind of OBJ based play a nightmare for those who want to focus on it, and is probably the single largest reason why TDM style modes are always more popular than OBJ based ones. There is always a massive percentage in it for the glory, and nothing says glory more than emulating Rambo. Being a successful team medic and topping the boards just doesn’t have the same ring to it…

Splash Damage have always been more focused on team play over individual glory. If you want to play a game that rewards Rambo style then there are literally dozens of current active and very good titles that will satisfy this desire.

Let me just confirm a few things that are never going to change in Brink:

  • Kills will always gather less XP than completing OBJs or interacting with your team.
  • Medics get more XP as theirs is a largely thankless task and they remain the backbone of a balanced team. SD have been very shrewd in the way they’ve awarded the class.
  • K/D tracking will only attract the type of player that dilutes the OBJ based nature of the game.
  • SD set this up for a VERY good reason. This is their game and if you don’t like it to the point that it makes you suffer, then you’re more than welcome to leave and let the rest of us enjoy one of the only games that caters for our style of play.

You already have CoD, and Halo, and hell you guys even have “Team” Fortress 2… let us have Brink.

Cheers!

(FireWorks) #2

Great post, I fully agree

(thedukey) #3

you know if you are so one sided, this game will fail. if splash damage listens to people that want to keep the game one way when it has the potential to be what a lot of people have wanted in a game for a long time, it will fail. this game needs to be the jack of all trades, replace current games out there for a lot of communities.

posts like this are stupid anyhow, people will hit max rank very quickly regardless, so who gives a damn about XP. you should be more concerned with weapon balance, new modes, new maps, tweaking the current modes, game, ui, etc.

(Angry Machine) #4

I agree 100%.

We don’t need a K/D ratio, let’s focus objectives !

Wanna be a K/D whore ? Go play long range camping sniper on BFBC2 :stuck_out_tongue:

(fearlessfox) #5

There are already a plethora of games out there that cater for those who want this. THere are also more than enough people in the world who hold SD’s philosophy dear to them to keep this game afloat and successful.

Will it be CoD or Halo in terms or success? No, but then it was never intended to emulate that.

SD are a rare dev company who care more about their vision than revenue.

[QUOTE=thedukey;307761]
posts like this are stupid anyhow, people will hit max rank very quickly regardless, so who gives a damn about XP. you should be more concerned with weapon balance, new modes, new maps, tweaking the current modes, game, ui, etc.[/QUOTE]

Would be nice if we could keep this civilized, so I’m not going to be lured by your cheap bait. The irony of your post /is/ quite humorous though, so thank you for that. :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Angry Machine;307772]I agree 100%.

We don’t need a K/D ratio, let’s focus objectives !

Wanna be a K/D whore ? Go play long range camping sniper on BFBC2 :P[/QUOTE]

Pre-cise-ly.

(obliviondoll) #6

As a former War for Cybertron full-spec Medic (as far as I can tell, the only one), I whole-heartedly approve of Brink’s encouragement of actual TEAMWORK (even though I spend more time as an Operative).

In WfC, I often had between 0 and 2 kills, and 5 or more deaths, with the lowest score in the game, but my teammates would almost always agree I was the reason we won, or the reason we came close to winning when it was a bunch of inexperienced randoms vs. a really skilled clan.

In Brink, rushing about making everyone NOT DIE is more rewarding XP-wise than being the best killer on the field.

(thedukey) #7

[QUOTE=fearlessfox;307778]There are already a plethora of games out there that cater for those who want this. THere are also more than enough people in the world who hold SD’s philosophy dear to them to keep this game afloat and successful.

Will it be CoD or Halo in terms or success? No, but then it was never intended to emulate that.

SD are a rare dev company who care more about their vision than revenue.

Would be nice if we could keep this civilized, so I’m not going to be lured by your cheap bait. The irony of your post /is/ quite humorous though, so thank you for that. :)[/QUOTE]

wasnt a bait, its just true. level 20 isnt far off for most, so exp doesnt really matter in the end… as its not a long quest to hit it.

also yes SD seems to have a loyal following, but it needs to attract newer people also, and has the potential to do that. it should not be limited by the old community for previous games, it should be enhanced and evolved.

(fearlessfox) #8

Read what I wrote above please, and try to pay attention: XP has been spread the way it has to appease those who care about it and to keep the game running smoothly for those of us who don’t.

So it is very consequential. Try to keep up. :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=thedukey;307785]
also yes SD seems to have a loyal following, but it needs to attract newer people also, and has the potential to do that. it should not be limited by the old community for previous games, it should be enhanced and evolved.[/quote]

If you honestly think the suggestions and desire you have are “enhancements” then you’re not paying attention to what Splash Damage are trying to do.

The door is that way, it leads to a dozen generic shooters that will keep you appeased.

(Artheval_Pe) #9

I have been playing online FPS since 1999 and I endorse the original post.

Except the part about Team Fortress 2. Last time I played (OK, it was more than eight month ago), it was still a team-oriented game, people were still playing to get the objectives done, and still usually playing as a team.

The XP is just there to encourage everyone to play the right way in order to do the objective. As a matter of fact, I usually don’t even look at my score while playing (the rare times I do, it’s usually pretty high). Anyone who gives too much attention to the score is probably missing the point of the entire game (and of the entire idea of teamplay).

The score system and the XP are perfect the way they are.

SD are a rare dev company who care more about their vision than revenue.

Well, they also need revenue to keep making games (that’s one of the reasons Brink is on the consoles too).

SD seems to have a loyal following, but it needs to attract newer people also, and has the potential to do that. it should not be limited by the old community for previous games, it should be enhanced and evolved.

The game is build precisely for that. Plus, games like Left 4 Dead 1 & 2 are all about teamwork and they were not confined to the existing community of Valve players. (3 million units sold on consoles for each of the Left 4 Dead)

(MisterAngry) #10

[QUOTE=Angry Machine;307772]
Wanna be a K/D whore ? Go play long range camping sniper on BFBC2 :P[/QUOTE]

Ugh, Don’t even remind me of this. I can’t tell you how many unnecessary losses I’ve gone through, especially while Attacking on Rush maps, because a huge percent of my team are bush-wookies who spends the entire match camping near our spawn, ignoring the fact objectives exist.

[QUOTE=fearlessfox;307700]You already have CoD, and Halo, and hell you guys even have “Team” Fortress 2… let us have Brink.

Cheers![/QUOTE]

Also, I don’t think it’s really fair to lump TF2 with that. I mean, it’s no Brink, but teamwork is more rewarded there than most games on the market now. You can also rank pretty high in the scoreboards as Medic or Engineer without actively killing people.

(goat72) #11

Can we sticky this thread?

goat

(fearlessfox) #12

[QUOTE=Artheval_Pe;307797]Except the part about Team Fortress 2. Last time I played (OK, it was more than eight month ago), it was still a team-oriented game, people were still playing to get the objectives done, and still usually playing as a team.
[/QUOTE]

Team Fortress 2 does it better than most, but the fact that an often used joke is one that focuses on the “team” in the game’s title shows us that it isn’t set up to cater for team play perfectly.

How many times have you been the only dude on the cart, for example?

TF2 is great, Brink is just more focused at achieving the team play potential.

I agree, but many games are still ruined by people’s inability to play as a team. I’ve often topped the boards as a medic, but our team’s failed because no one understands that that CP doesn’t cap itself…

(m4rcus) #13

http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/showthread.php?p=307662

(MisterAngry) #14

Yeah, that kinda is a nagging problem in objective based games. I don’t even care if a person is just not great at playing, have bad aim or whatever. I just wish players can make an attempt to work on objectives.

I’m not even that great myself (really not), but I make the effort to…

(H0RSE) #15

So what you’re saying is that if SD keeps doing what it has been doing and doesn’t change it up at all, they won’t usher in new fans? Well then how did they get their original fans in the first place?

Approach it like a band:

They could keep performing the the same sound that made them famous, and attract new fans that like that sound, or they could “sell-out” and write radio hits, and attract a whole new fanbase, including those who would never have like their original stuff.

(Bakercompany) #16

What you are trying to prevent in Brink is already possible. If someone wants to sit in a corner waiting for you to walk around the corner to they can blast you in the face with a Barnett, they can still do that.

Matter-of-fact my friend and I frequently SMART ourselves to frustrating locations, pop some mines and sit up and just snipe.

Killing people and preventing them from completing the obj, or reviving their buddy is still contributing.

If you can post valid reasons why not to include stats in this game most will listen. But the only argument i’ve seen is people throwing up anti COD rants. This game is already far far away from COD. You can kill all day long and walk away with 1500xp, but that medic who did his job scored 7000xp and smoked your performance. How does camping kills feel now?

And if they really wanted stats omitted, why are they adding a stat tracking website? That will promote the same KD camping you’re afraid of, they just have to keep a laptop next to them…and that site is a guarantee so isn’t this a moot point?

(Dregs) #17

[QUOTE=thedukey;307761]you know if you are so one sided, this game will fail. if splash damage listens to people that want to keep the game one way when it has the potential to be what a lot of people have wanted in a game for a long time, it will fail. this game needs to be the jack of all trades, replace current games out there for a lot of communities.
[/QUOTE]

If by “fail” you mean the game will not appeal to the masses because it’s an objective based-game, then I welcome this failure. If your interpretation of success mean cloning this game and adding features identical to the gross majority of this genre, then I do not welcome your version of success.

Jack-of-all-trades inherently don’t have anything special about them other than being jack-of-all-trades - with the occasional exception (I can make baseless claims too). There will always be something to complain about or claim that something will be the failure of a product. There’s no such thing as a perfect jack-of-all-trades and there definitely isn’t a potential of that here.

Move along and play the plethora of other FPS games available to match what you want. You do not have to stay here if you do not appreciate the direction SD has taken. As for me, I’ve been waiting for similar gameplay as RTCW:ET forever (QW:ET sure as hell wasn’t it) - which I’ve literally played for years - and I didn’t even have to pay money for that game.

Thanks and have a wonderful day.

(PillowTalk) #18

Once people start to realize you can rack up XP faster by NOT helping the team, playing an Operative just disguising (each disguise is worth 125xp and there is no cool down on it so you can keep changing disguises over and over again and rack up XP), then what?

(Artheval_Pe) #19

You can kill all day long and walk away with 1500xp, but that medic who did his job scored 7000xp and smoked your performance. How does camping kills feel now?

If you scored only 1500Xp, it means that you were almost useless to the team. That’s what XP shows and what it’s meant to show.

Maybe you were contributing, but killing a few guys once in a while is not contributing a lot when there are more critical things to do. It’s being counter-productive.

The valid reason to not include K/D ratio is that K/D ratio is not important in Brink and no player should care about that. It is like displaying the number of meters walked in the scoreboard of counter-strike.

So, yes, stats tracking would be cool, but only in a form that shows everything on an equal footing (turrets built, buffs given, people revived, etc…). The only ratio in Brink that makes sense would be XP per minute.

(Bakercompany) #20

[QUOTE=Dregs;308024][QUOTE=thedukey;307761]you know if you are so one sided, this game will fail. if splash damage listens to people that want to keep the game one way when it has the potential to be what a lot of people have wanted in a game for a long time, it will fail. this game needs to be the jack of all trades, replace current games out there for a lot of communities.
QUOTE]

If by “fail” you mean the game will not appeal to the masses because it’s an objective based-game, then I welcome this failure. If your interpretation of success mean cloning this game and adding features identical to the gross majority of this genre, then I do not welcome your version of success.
[/QUOTE]

I support anything that helps this game gain fame, as well as fame to Splash Damage.

I really don’t understand why people are crying about stats in this game. If someone wants to spend their 60$ camping in a corner farming KD, who cares? Their team will lose, and you get jack XP for kills anyway. It takes what 2-4 kills to equal the XP for one buff? So they are just punishing themselves.

Another point, this is a first person shooter. Even medics can wield any weapon they wish and blast the enemies face off. The core principle behind this game is SHOOTING people. So whats wrong with seeing how many people you’ve shot?

True fans should be in support of anything added to this game that increases its replayability. Yes a massive chunk of FPS players want their “carrot on a stick” to chase. And if thats how they have fun, shouldn’t we let them? This isn’t your game, its Splash Damages. They are free to add/change what they want in order to keep it fun and interesting to the masses.

When they first sat down years ago to plan Brink, i’d put money on the fact that no one said “we should just try to appeal to a small playerbase and only create a small cult following. that way we get our message across even if we don’t make much money or popularity.”

Which is why they’re adding in a stat tracking website. Which basically makes this entire thread pointless because the one thing you apparently fear most is already planned and promised. KD’ers will be able to see their KD. So whats wrong with being able to remove one step and view it in game?