Spawn Waves

[Dragonji]

[QUOTE=Apples;423660]

Ohhhh yeahhhhh[/QUOTE]
How about this?

[tokamak]

I think you mean “other than that it’s been tried and tested for over a decade”, which I’d say is a pretty damn good reason.

Just because it has been done for over a decade does not mean it can’t be improved. Unlucky spawn times were always accepted as the ugly truth and simply part of the game.

Not true, clans know exactly when they spawn and when the enemy spawns, that’s kinda the whole point, there’s no luck involved, it’s all about the timing.

You’re not basing your killings on though, not in a fair fight.

I’m looking at it from the point of view of which system favours defence more. Whilst both systems have pros and cons, wave re-spawn appears on balance to be slightly less advantageous for defence than staggered re-spawns, which means for Stopwatch (and possibly Stopwatch only) wave re-spawn would be better.

Which one is easier shouldn’t be the question in the first place. The difficulty of defending a map needs to be tweaked with the spawn distances and times. The current system is only meant to diminish the luck factor going on in defending. In spawn waves the defenders have just as many lucky spawns as unlucky spawns distributed over a bell curve so it really isn’t about which one is easier for defence.

[Patriotqube]

[QUOTE=tokamak;424975]A car has four wheels not because it gives people a warm and fuzzy feelings of the good old days where cars used to have four wheels as well. Cars have wheels for the simple reason that it distributes the weight in the most safe and effective way.

There’s no equivalent to that type of reason here. There’s no main reason to let defenders spawn in waves other than that it used to be like this in times where games were slightly less sophisticated. This means that there’s absolutely no barrier to at least try to see if it can be improved.[/QUOTE]

wow, did someoe take the p**s on your breakfast?

the 4 wheel thingy was just a way to say, that even tho somthing has been left unchanged for ages dosent mean its always nessecary to change it, but i guess that was to suttle for you, my apology

for the rest of you post i can see kendle has answered that exactly like i would

[iwound]

Now, staying with the more useful part of this topic, can those worried about shirosae’s suggestion expand on how the ‘exploit’ of feeding a player would aid a team? I get the concept but I don’t see the practicality of it, they sacrifice a guy to start the wave before an engagement starts? As it starts? In the hope that they all die but then get a faster re-spawn. That sounds like it’d be considerably fine timing to pull off for only the chance of a benefit, I think I’d rather keep that extra man.

i just wrote down some complex scenarios but in the end the only benefit was spawning earlier. you could send someone in on a suicide run then follow up. but then its how much you would pay attention to this. probably some others who play in matches would know better if they would exploit it.

in a pub id have to know i had everyone around me then maybe suicide it just before they attack, but then thats pretty much how i play all the time anyway.

ive spelt out all my thoughts on keeping it as waves. but i dont think that any of those defending the current system have pointed out one single actual benefit.
for all the reasons given there have been numerous counter arguments.

the defense rests.

Lets bear in mind, none of you noticed the current system, that had been in since the start of alpha, until this thread started, so the impact is being somewhat overstated.

to be fair its been talked about a lot longer before that thread. concerns and whispers on the server, but we had no details. its like, i dont badger you about covey disguise feature, but that doesnt mean i dont want it. theres only so much one man can moan about.

[Maca]

There’s no equivalent to that type of reason here. There’s no main reason to let defenders spawn in waves other than that it used to be like this in times where games were slightly less sophisticated. This means that there’s absolutely no barrier to at least try to see if it can be improved.

Except for all the pros that have been said in this thread to come from spawning together and cons of spawning alone. And even though you’ve disregarded them as only “issues in spawn locations and team inbalance” (not direct quote), they are still caused a lot by the current spawns.
The inherent difficulty in creating a teamwork-based defence, as now every individual defender is just meant to slow the attackers by doing a self sacrifice, is also something I’d say to be a good reason.

[Kendle]

tbh I’m gonna back out, if SD go ahead and release this game with no option for wave re-spawn in Stopwatch mode (irrespective of what other spawn modes are available, in Stopwatch or Objective) expect copious amounts of **** to hit numerous fans, simple as. Good luck to tokamak convincing the wider ET scene that his slightly less than round wheel is an improvement on what our cave dwelling ancestors came up with.

[Chris2]

Welcome to Alpha Kendle

[Anti]

Yeah cause that idea worked really well in ET:QW. Most used the early access to train for the inevitable launch tournaments then pissed off after money went away.

It is useful and something we’d probably like to do again, but I imagine we’d time limit for DB, so they’re maybe only in for a month or so to give feedback rather than using it to gain a competitive advantage (which, to be fair, only one or two teams really did).

[Anti]

I personally worry about potentially having too many differences between mechanics or systems between comp and pubic games. They end up creating little entry barriers for players who want to make the jump from public to competition play, as the transition isn’t completely seamless. I’m not suggesting of course that there are a bunch of plans to have A in comp and B in public… but the fewer differences between the two the better is my stance.

I’d agree, but nowadays it’s possible to have ‘comp’ as a public game. See Blizzards league system and the new one LoL has just added as examples of systems that neatly bridge that gap.

[Kendle]

Welcome to Alpha Kendle

Reminds me of the scene in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy where 2 groups are arguing about the design of the wheel. Arthur Dent asks what could possibly be the problem designing a wheel and the 2 groups respond: “well, you tell us what colour it should be!”.

[aowblacky]

Spawnwaves for attackers and defenders. **** yea!
can’t wait for the next updates including the new spawnwaves!

[tokamak]

I’d agree, but nowadays it’s possible to have ‘comp’ as a public game. See Blizzards league system and the new one LoL has just added as examples of systems that neatly bridge that gap.

Omg are you going to install something similar for DB!? Addictiveness galore.

[INF3RN0]

There’s already some team training going on in alpha ofc. If teams are willing to pay $120 to get into alpha just to get a head-start on everyone else, that’s their own mistake haha. I would however like to see some professional teams invited for a short period to test the game on a more intensive competitive standard as I think it would provide a lot of good info into the meta-game, maps, and balance.

[j4b]

Yes but at the moment it is totaly useless to train uber tactics cause there are still s lot of changed to be made. We are glad to have a few players of our old etqw / brink team here to help improving the competition. As i can say for our 2-3 matches we played untill now it is realy hard to time attacks and fallbacks with the kind of respawning we got now.

[zeroooo]

yes but at the moment it is totaly useless to train uber tactics cause there are still s lot of changed to be made. We are glad to have a few players of our old etqw / brink team here to help improving the competition. As i can say for our 2-3 matches we played untill now it is realy hard to time attacks and fallbacks with the kind of respawning we got now.

absolutely!!

[Patriotqube]

Yes but at the moment it is totaly useless to train uber tactics cause there are still s lot of changed to be made. We are glad to have a few players of our old etqw / brink team here to help improving the competition. As i can say for our 2-3 matches we played untill now it is realy hard to time attacks and fallbacks with the kind of respawning we got now.

After playing stopwatch for the first time last night i can only agree on that,

[Bloodbite]

I still feel naked without a spawn counter up all the time

[tokamak]

That’s why there’s something to be said about having a player counter up in the hud

And I may be remembering this wrong but in CS GO the identity of the player only gets revealed in the team counter the moment he dies. Of course you don’t have to reveal the identity at all but I don’t see any hurt in that. As of now it rather seems like an extra way to tighten the community by making the players get acquainted more easily.

[BomBaKlaK]

definitly we need spawn waves !

[SockDog]

I might be being selfish here but it’s really annoying to be defending and seeing 15 seconds to spawn every time. Sprinkle on some team imbalance to rub salt in that wound and you’ve got a lot of rage quits.