Some thoughts about modding

(nUllSkillZ) #1

Hi,

the leaving of the PoP team makes me think of the situation of modding for ET.
Actually I watch the player numbers for several games very regularly:
http://www.csports.net/(pzwxzd555eoppm55lu0vnvzg)/TopGames.aspx

Strange situation:
The playerbase of W:ET is nearly unlimited (names in 31 days: 1,355,886).
But there aren’t enough modder.

The playerbase of HL2:Source is limited to the owners of the game.
Although there will be players that would buy a game for a mod I think the number won’t change that much.
Names in 31 days at the moment: 379,225
There are enough modders around.

Most played ET-mod (total conversion):
True Combat: Elite
Names in 31 days: 29,790

Most played Source mod:
Dystopia (actually it’s Garry’s mod but I think this is “only” a fun mod)
Names in 31 days: 11,930

Very strange.
ET: unlimited playerbase - nearly no modding activity - nearly no mod players
Source: very limited playerbase - very high modding activity - nearly no mod players

(P4nth3r) #2

Let’s bring some HL2 modders to ET some how ^^

(Jaquboss) #3

you are right Nullz , and i am wondering too, so easy to mod, so many players, free game, and so few modders?
I am currently also working on another mod , this time fantasy theme…

(Lanz) #4

Maybe it’s not that strange. To make a total conversion you usually need new playermodels, since this is a pain in the ass in ET with no modelers worth a shit availabe because of the lack of tools for importing/exporting models, and with no modelers, you don’t have animators. There are easier games for that, and therfore not that many tc’s. Small mods are just pointless in ET because of the big one, ETpro, try make a competitive mod without getting 500 so called “pro” players not to whine because it’s not ETpro. Many players do not play anything else but ETpro because of fear of losing their aim because of different implementations of antilag/hitboxes or not being able to use one of their precious settings. That’s the big problem, ETpro had the source first of all (well shrub had it first but anyway), had numerous of programmers working on it for several years, the work needed to compete with it is just not worth it.

Today it’s easier to make a tc for ET than something that just add some smaller features because of who you compete against but then, no playermodels, no animators, back to square one…

(P4nth3r) #5

Lanz is right

Maybe Etpro should give it’s source to download so other can base their mod on the ETpro source instaid of the normal et source?
And the models is indeed a very big problem.
Animations are a big pain in the ass to make and the lack of good import & export plugins make it hell.

I was playing in an ETPub server a few days ago and I ask one of my clan buddies, come play with me.
answer: NOoooo I only play ETPro =/
OMG!! ET should be fun no mather what mod you play it on.
I told him the same thing and a few days later he tried it and we had loads of fun.

Time for the ET community to grow up and let go of the thought that ET pro is the only thing out there.

Greetz Panther

(jaybird) #6

Lanz hit it right on. The models are the biggest issue, IMO, facing a modder. We’ve been looking into various model expansions lately, and it is quite difficult (much moreso than it should be anyway) to put something together because the tools do not exist publicly and the original models that would make changes so easy aren’t available. I haven’t looked at it myself, but I was told the models were included in the Quake 4 SDK, and combined with Maya, it made changing/adding new models to the game a whole lot easier.

I write a pub mod that has moderate success, but that will never compete with ETPro in terms of usage. I enjoy my community though. To ETPro’s defense, they’re usually pretty helpful with sharing general ideas and occassionally code related to their implementation of various things (the most well-known being the “realhead” stuff from zinx). I think they kept the ET community alive. But I don’t think that their success keeps other mods from taking off and coming into their own. It just depends on the players, and it seems in this game the majority are concerned with competition, with a rather large minority wanting a bit more “freeplay”, which is where the pub mods come in.

I’m rambling, so I digress. I don’t know that it would ever happen, but models/animations and tools to work on them would be nice. Even though QW is on the horizon, I still think it’s worthwhile to attempt to get these released. If Quake 4 can include them in the SDK, I don’t see why ET can’t.

(kamikazee) #7

Well, I’m thinking of picking up my convertor plans again.

I was thinking of making 1 tool to convert files to a custom format, which can then be read by a plugin. The nice thing is that this plugin could technically be used to import md3 as well as mdm/mdx, as all files get converted to 1 and only 1 format.
I’ll open a new thread once I’ve completed the specs for the format, since I 'm still looking for anyone accustomed with writing importers/exporters for any 3D program.

(Floris) #8

Hmm when we’re into numbers, there are almost just as much etpub players as etpro players :slight_smile:

(carnage) #9

The models are the biggest issue, IMO, facing a modder. We’ve been looking into various model expansions lately, and it is quite difficult (much moreso than it should be anyway) to put something together because the tools do not exist publicly

the needed tool are avidable but they are more unoficial and not perfect but all you need is a mdc exporter and the mdm/mdx converter

however it was at least a year before these tools came out and i think in that time many modelers had given up waiting. saying that there wanst realy and models for rtcw ither. even the WW conversion used the same player models with new helmets

on this bord there are enough modelers to make a good TC mod that players would be happy to play it just we all have differnt idea about what that mod should be and split into moding teams. each not big enough to make a TC mod alone. it would be good if an idea that everyone like and the comunity could all work on together its just a very big project and the chances of it happening are very small

(nUllSkillZ) #10

Source sharing.
Not only source code.

I’ve read about this idea on Q4 community sites.
Suggestion has been to share all the resources (models, graphics etc.).

(carnage) #11

i still dont see how this is a real help as far as TC mod is concerned since you realy would rather have the models etc made specific or you will get some half way to what u wanted

perhaps it would be good if we saw the sorta trading coperaton between mod teams like, u lend us your modeler to make a rifle and u can have our graphic artist to make you a skin etc still that would take a lot more time since lots of work would not be on the mod your primerily trying to make

(jaybird) #12

Hmm when we’re into numbers, there are almost just as much etpub players as etpro players

You got figures?

I can only repeat the things that have been mentioned to me by people who do modeling and animating. I just code :smiley: Oh how I would love a freaking shotgun model though.

(nUllSkillZ) #13

The “No Quarter” modteam has a nice shotgun model.

(jet Pilot) #14

We may have an older one we’re not using any more, I’ll talk to Meyer and see what’s up with it, if it’s still around.

(forty) #15

You got figures?

http://www.csports.net/GameStats.aspx?Matrix=47

(ikanatto) #16

Even though the tools which can import/export would be avilable, it’s still hard work to get a new player model with animations. Animating really needs much time and passion. If you have enough passsion to make all animations, you will make some tools for it without complaints.

The biggest reason why less people play ET’s mod: ET itself is so much fun, I think :smiley:

(nUllSkillZ) #17

Two questions just came to my mind:

  • [li]Are mods only played if the gameplay not differs too much from the original game (et-pro and et-pub are very popular).
    [/li][li]Are games (I see total conversions as new games) are only played if we have to pay for them (pay = value = good / free = no value = not good)
    [/li]W:ET would then be the exception.
    But it is based on RTCW a “game of the year”-game.
(jaybird) #18

Forty: those numbers are encouraging

ikanatto: yeah I’m sure it takes a lot of time and willingness to complete a finished product, but there’s a point that gets reached when it’s not viable to create the tools needed to finish the job, especially when they do in fact exist. I’ve had a few people attempt to make models for me, and the common theme here is trouble with animating, especially 3rd person. I’m sure there is a lot of work involved, but it just seems that these things would be released for a few reasons. First of all, this game is free, and the game SDK is freely available. The engine itself has been released (albeit not specially for this game). There could be argument about Activision, or licensing issues, but that Quake4 released their models and animations doesn’t seem consistent. I understand it’s totally up to the companies involved, but it just seems benificial to the longevity of this game that something would be available to help people expand on this game.

IMHO

(carnage) #19

but it just seems benificial to the longevity of this game

perhaps that is the problem. since ET is free no money is being made and the companies involved dont want to prolong the life of a game that may subtract from the profits of future realses

(jaybird) #20

Perhaps, but I think that may be a bit far fetched. Quake Wars should beat the pants off of this game.