Some suggestions to make DB great again!

[Szakalot]

@hurgya said:

@Szakalot said:
spawnkilling is part of the game, and even essential on some maps (chapel last obj e.g.)

You can keep whining or you can l2p.
if your entire team is spawncamped, its an issue with teambalance, not spawncamping.

It being essential on a certain part of a map does not make the mechanic good, rather the map flawed.

My personal problem with spawncamping (as a strategy, not as a result of the ill balanced teams), is that, it’s a cheap way of killing noobs. (well, you can 1 hit an experienced player too, or even more than one, but that requires spot on timing, and doesn’t happen that often to me, so I can accept that)

I agree that its bad map design to force attackers to push directly at defense spawn. Much more interesting design involves a triangle of spawn-objective-spawn where attacker’s can try to pincer defense in spawn to prevent reinforcements and bleed the enemy or focus on the objective. We don’t really see a lot of it in DB, closest thing I can think of is bridge last OBJ, here both defender’s routes to objectives can be choked by attackers.

[kittz0r]

@sampark said:

@kittz0r said:
Spawnkill is part of the Game, it was in previous Games too. Just don’t run out like headless Chicken and after being Naded 3 Times in a Row, maybe change your way to exit the Spawn.
Most of the Time players just run into the same crap each spawn, so its their fault, not the Game one.

Shuffle should be removed overall, no Point for shuffling spam, its passed, it doesn nothing, restart vote goes by, and shuffle spam continues. Shuffle has to Go.

Spawnkill is part of the Game… Man, that was the funniest joke I ever heard in a while! LOLZ
Are you for real my man? Yea sure Spawn kill exists in any type of games but this is not the “part” of a game. Try to make a game when it’s 7 vs 3 eh?

Shuffle - I would agree that shuffle should be removed but let’s face it. Not gonna happen

See, you one of the many Problems this Game has. Look at Enemy Territory Series (ET for SD).

Its part of the Game, period. You get a 4 (?) second Spawnshield each time, you should know there will be Nades on Spawnexits or Strikes, if you run into that, its your fault.
Like @DefaultSettings stated the defender should push hard with like 10 Seconds left on the Spawntimer, to keep the Enemy away from Spawn and give you Room to move.
Its the players fault they can’t play the Game and not learning anything and want to change DB into CoD or BF, just play those Games if you can’t handle simple shit.

[sampark]

@DefaultSettings said:

@sampark said:
Spawnkill is part of the Game… Man, that was the funniest joke I ever heard in a while! LOLZ
Are you for real my man? Yea sure Spawn kill exists in any type of games but this is not the “part” of a game. Try to make a game when it’s 7 vs 3 eh?

Spawnkill is a valid strategy on Dirty Bomb and not considered as lame. In Dirty Bomb, you are supposed to push, push and push. Combine this with spawntimer mechanics and you’ll find that pushing he further you can and longspwaning enemies is best achieved when spawkilling.

It may not be fun, but that’s how Dirty Bomb is played.

You do have a valid point there but I have to disagree with you.
Obj of this game is clear, Destroy vs Defend. Although some of the maps needs to be worked furthermore, defenders can have tight defense without eliminating the chance of attackers’ marching.
While i was playing, the most reasons of players dropping out of the matches were due to Spawn-killing. You CAN NOT push when you have 3,4 rhino just ready to spray their shit on u. Do not try to validate something that can harm the quality of the game

[sampark]

@ClemClem7 said:
There must be some change to shuffle: Shuffle within the restart timer, and force restart at the same time.
After that time limit, if the team are uneven, make that the game suggest to a player to change team with a little compensation (little credit boost for the time of the game after he shuffled), then it doesn’t force people to change team.
And make that an algorithm decide which player is suggested in priority, then the game isn’t too much unbalanced by the change.

yea Current algorithm for shuffling and splitting teams in the start needs to be re-worked on

[kittz0r]

@sampark said:

@DefaultSettings said:

@sampark said:
Spawnkill is part of the Game… Man, that was the funniest joke I ever heard in a while! LOLZ
Are you for real my man? Yea sure Spawn kill exists in any type of games but this is not the “part” of a game. Try to make a game when it’s 7 vs 3 eh?

Spawnkill is a valid strategy on Dirty Bomb and not considered as lame. In Dirty Bomb, you are supposed to push, push and push. Combine this with spawntimer mechanics and you’ll find that pushing he further you can and longspwaning enemies is best achieved when spawkilling.

It may not be fun, but that’s how Dirty Bomb is played.

You do have a valid point there but I have to disagree with you.
Obj of this game is clear, Destroy vs Defend. Although some of the maps needs to be worked furthermore, defenders can have tight defense without eliminating the chance of attackers’ marching.
While i was playing, the most reasons of players dropping out of the matches were due to Spawn-killing. You CAN NOT push when you have 3,4 rhino just ready to spray their @$!# on u. Do not try to validate something that can harm the quality of the game

so how is the fault of DB when people do stupid Things and can’t handle it? and again, you don’t like it? play a different Game were Spawnkill is punished

[GatoCommodore]

@Melinder said:

@GatoCommodore said:
all 3 shotgun has the worst reload of any weapon in the game, it only deal 1-3 damage at medium range, supposed to be used by flankers.

stop trying to lie your way to nerf this gun, its bad enough that shotgun cant kill anything at range more than 10m

If you think it’s okay for a shotgun to be dealing 42 damage (and 48 damage with the Ahnuld) at this range, there is something horribly wrong with you. And this is an extreme example, as Aura is the thinnest character in terms of size, so a larger merc would have taken more damage. When most medium-range encounters with shotguns are executed through jiggle-peeking, it’s actually insane how powerful they are at a range they aren’t meant to be used.

what youre looking at this gif is a shotgun on the effective range (keep in mind that anhuld the sniper shotgun effective range is 8.5)
(your FoV would make it look like its far away but its not.)

Jan. 27th Fine Tune Patch Notes

Ahnuhld-12
Reduced flechette falloff minimum damage to 1 (from 5)
Increased flechette damage falloff end distance to 48m (from 19m)
Damage falloff still begins at 3.84m

Hollunds 880
Reduced pellet falloff minimum damage to 1 (from 5)
Increased pellet damage falloff end distance to 32m (from 14.8m)
Damage falloff still begins at 1.7m

Remburgh 7
Reduced pellet falloff minimum damage to 1 (from 5)
Increased pellet damage falloff end distance to 28m (from 13m)
Damage falloff still begins at 1.4m

(note that shotgun doesnt have damage penalty from shooting leg)

point is you cant get sniped by a shotgun across the map. Lets take a look at the spread.

on medium range the spread is big enough that if you put aura on the middle theres only
4-5 pellets that will hit her minus the headshot damage reduction, minus the falloff, minus the pellets that dont hit and you get a gun that barely do any damage on medium range.

on close range your aim need to be on point because the spread arent that useful, comparable to something like Timik

even SMGs are tad better than shotguns on +10m
my argument still stands

[GatoCommodore]

i didnt say @Melinder is wrong but the assumption that shotgun can dominate medium-long range is a bit overblown. And what melinder did on the 3rd video is probably what you should do if you play shotgun with an 80hp merc, because dueling at range is the last thing you want to do.

[emjot]

Spawnkilling is a symptom, it’s not the cause.
The problem doesn’t lie with spawnkilling itself it lies with balance. Trying to fix the spawnkilling issue won’t help losing team win. If one of the team led to the situation they are kept getting spawnkill that means teams are not balanced. To fix this issue we need to balance teams. Not the other way around.

Also (no offense to anyone), but people seem to be… stupid. This happens a lot.
4x sniper on Underground (WTF?!).

Now with Rhino extremely cheap we can pray not to see a spam of this class on servers. (I’m happy Vas. is on 50k right now).

[sampark]

@kittz0r said:

@sampark said:

@DefaultSettings said:

@sampark said:
Spawnkill is part of the Game… Man, that was the funniest joke I ever heard in a while! LOLZ
Are you for real my man? Yea sure Spawn kill exists in any type of games but this is not the “part” of a game. Try to make a game when it’s 7 vs 3 eh?

Spawnkill is a valid strategy on Dirty Bomb and not considered as lame. In Dirty Bomb, you are supposed to push, push and push. Combine this with spawntimer mechanics and you’ll find that pushing he further you can and longspwaning enemies is best achieved when spawkilling.

It may not be fun, but that’s how Dirty Bomb is played.

You do have a valid point there but I have to disagree with you.
Obj of this game is clear, Destroy vs Defend. Although some of the maps needs to be worked furthermore, defenders can have tight defense without eliminating the chance of attackers’ marching.
While i was playing, the most reasons of players dropping out of the matches were due to Spawn-killing. You CAN NOT push when you have 3,4 rhino just ready to spray their @$!# on u. Do not try to validate something that can harm the quality of the game

so how is the fault of DB when people do stupid Things and can’t handle it? and again, you don’t like it? play a different Game were Spawnkill is punished

I never accused anyone/anything for spawnkilling. I simply stated this is not a “part” of the game. jesus
I am merely suggesting alternative way to make this game better and you are here trying kick me out
Fair game mate, Fair game

[sampark]

@emjot said:
Spawnkilling is a symptom, it’s not the cause.
The problem doesn’t lie with spawnkilling itself it lies with balance. Trying to fix the spawnkilling issue won’t help losing team win. If one of the team led to the situation they are kept getting spawnkill that means teams are not balanced. To fix this issue we need to balance teams. Not the other way around.

Also (no offense to anyone), but people seem to be… stupid. This happens a lot.
4x sniper on Underground (WTF?!).

Now with Rhino extremely cheap we can pray not to see a spam of this class on servers. (I’m happy Vas. is on 50k right now).

But the thing is I see people(majority on the steam forum) claiming Balance is not an issue. So You must be wrong! Because I am right and you are wrong!
Fully sarcastic, mate lol I completely agree with you on that
it’s difficult to balance team while in match due to shuffle spam and what-not
I just change team manually when i have chance.

[Szakalot]

@sampark ‘spawnkilling not part of the gamw’

it is though, your are talking to people who spawnkilled each other since early 2000. dont get surprised when we dont like your presumption on what the game is ‘supposed’ to be, when we’ce been basically playing the same game for 15+years

[sampark]

@ClemClem7 said:

Also, when I hear that spawn killing is not the way to play the game
“plaaaayyy diiiiiirtyyy”

Let me go extreme for ya. So basically trash talking and aim-boting should be a part of “Playing Dirty”, Eh?
Of course I am being sarcastic

[sampark]

@kittz0r said:

@sampark said:

@kittz0r said:
Spawnkill is part of the Game, it was in previous Games too. Just don’t run out like headless Chicken and after being Naded 3 Times in a Row, maybe change your way to exit the Spawn.
Most of the Time players just run into the same crap each spawn, so its their fault, not the Game one.

Shuffle should be removed overall, no Point for shuffling spam, its passed, it doesn nothing, restart vote goes by, and shuffle spam continues. Shuffle has to Go.

Spawnkill is part of the Game… Man, that was the funniest joke I ever heard in a while! LOLZ
Are you for real my man? Yea sure Spawn kill exists in any type of games but this is not the “part” of a game. Try to make a game when it’s 7 vs 3 eh?

Shuffle - I would agree that shuffle should be removed but let’s face it. Not gonna happen

See, you one of the many Problems this Game has. Look at Enemy Territory Series (ET for SD).

Its part of the Game, period. You get a 4 (?) second Spawnshield each time, you should know there will be Nades on Spawnexits or Strikes, if you run into that, its your fault.
Like @DefaultSettings stated the defender should push hard with like 10 Seconds left on the Spawntimer, to keep the Enemy away from Spawn and give you Room to move.
Its the players fault they can’t play the Game and not learning anything and want to change DB into CoD or BF, just play those Games if you can’t handle simple @$!#.

Then explain to me how to push “hard” when you spawn, there’s a rhino with turtle’s shield about 15 ft in front of you. A turret, molotov/mine on your feet.
Oh Press K and don’t respond? Again How am i pushing exactly when I am just spectating?

[sampark]

@Szakalot said:
@sampark ‘spawnkilling not part of the gamw’

it is though, your are talking to people who spawnkilled each other since early 2000. dont get surprised when we dont like your presumption on what the game is ‘supposed’ to be, when we’ce been basically playing the same game for 15+years

True, True, I was just merely suggesting some my personal opinions regarding how to improve the quality of the game. I didn’t sign up to be witch-trialed ffs. I guess it’s time for me to say “Welcome to the internet”

[LadyNecroPed]

Here’s a suggestion: Bring back australian servers.

[GatoCommodore]

@sampark said:

@Szakalot said:
@sampark ‘spawnkilling not part of the gamw’

it is though, your are talking to people who spawnkilled each other since early 2000. dont get surprised when we dont like your presumption on what the game is ‘supposed’ to be, when we’ce been basically playing the same game for 15+years

True, True, I was just merely suggesting some my personal opinions regarding how to improve the quality of the game. I didn’t sign up to be witch-trialed ffs. I guess it’s time for me to say “Welcome to the internet”

the thing is with spawncamping is enabled by many factors in which cannot be controlled by the devs

for example, people afks or quitting in the middle of the match.

people on the other team is just better in the sense that they communicate more, medic is more reactive and the losing team cant counter those traits

usually you can counter spawn camping with a little bit of balls and brain, but newbies tend to be coward upon seeing sniper or enemy at their general direction.

They are not used to shoot people head on and prefer to chicken out then they go to forum or steam community talk about how spawn camping is a very serious problem in DB even tho being spawn camped in the first place is their own fault…
for not having enough brain and balls…

[ClemClem7]

@sampark said:

@ClemClem7 said:

Also, when I hear that spawn killing is not the way to play the game
“plaaaayyy diiiiiirtyyy”

Let me go extreme for ya. So basically trash talking and aim-boting should be a part of “Playing Dirty”, Eh?
Of course I am being sarcastic

Also an other part of the game is “don’t be a Dick”
"Play dirty" mean don’t make it easy for the enemy, use all your stuff and strategy, even the dirtiest (flanking, spaming Nader grenade, even a nade at the exit of the spawn is playing dirty)
"Don’t be a Dick" mean don’t be toxic (trash talking in chat), don’t harass people, don’t ruin game experience by idle AFK at spawn, don’t cheat, don’t teamkill for fun, and so on. Just common social rules.

In the first case, it’s annoying for the enemy who can’t adapt (running like headless chicken out of the spawn, same way everytime), in the second case it’s just ruining the game without it being based on skill or strategy, just free ruining the game, just to make people loose their time.

Spawnkilling can be avoided as you’re not shot dead just at the second you’re spawning. In all the time I played, I remember only 2 games where there was a REAL spawnkilling (unavoidable), and one of them was when I joined a 1v6 in ancient dome (the 1 was me) and they were really in the spawn, farming the freshly spawned enemy. The other was at chapel first objective, with a serious unbalanced game.

But 98 % of spawnkillings are just people who don’t want to change their vassili to arty or Kira to clear the exit of the spawn. This game need a winner and a loser.
As an example, on chapel, the only way to hold the last objective is by “spawnkilling” at the nearest choke point (aka the bus and the fallen wall) while delivering, or longspawn the enemy team (much more difficult as it need a perfect timing and at the end, you may end up with a spawnkilling because you need to deliver the second objective and the exit of the spawn is the easiest choke point to hold). But it’s not spawnkilling as you don’t die at the second your shield end. With a proper push (and mercs) you can end the spawnkilling (skyhammer/arty/kira may be needed, but as you were on chapel, you surely have one of them).

[scrub_lord]

Safe zones are pointless. Instead of camping spawns they’ll just camp the outside of the “safe zone” which is what happens 90% of the time anyways. Almost every spawn exits into a smaller entry which is what is camped.

[BloodySin]

@ClemClem7 said:
Also an other part of the game is “don’t be a Dick”
I’d assume people who dislike this practice and don’t base their game play on it - to the point of considering it “essential” - group spawncamping in the “don’t be a dick” rule. It’s not “playing dirty,” it’s just being a cheap player.

[ClemClem7]

@BloodySin said:

@ClemClem7 said:
Also an other part of the game is “don’t be a Dick”
I’d assume people who dislike this practice and don’t base their game play on it - to the point of considering it “essential” - group spawncamping in the “don’t be a dick” rule. It’s not “playing dirty,” it’s just being a cheap player.

I can see where you go, and I agree with you on the point that I don’t like to spawncamp people. I avoid it as much as possible, but sometimes you push so hard as a defender that it’s all you can do because the enemy team is not in the same skill level than yours. You can’t just let them win.

The way to avoid it is to have balanced games, but the balance is very fragile in a 6v6 game. When you see 32v32 battlefield games turn into a spawncamping, you know that no game can avoid these things.
Even in planetside 2 (which is a lot bigger than 32v32), spawncamp is a thing (or was a thing, didn’t launch the game for about 1 year or so)

The smaller the team, the harder it is to balance it. Imo, spawncamping is unavoidable, and this game has not the worst spawncamp I can think of.