some feedback on xt


(titan) #1

Hello, i’ve been in the beta (alpha?) a few months now so here are my thoughts presented as a stream of consciousness

alot of wolf players (myself included) wanted to see this game be purely hipfire. I really tried to understand where sd were coming from by including iron sights and i dont mind ironsights in alot of games but its just a detriment to extraction at this point. I remember reading somewhere on the old forums that ‘its expected from a modern shooter’ but i mean really? is that the only reason cause it feels like it is. Right now the gunplay is so wonky because its a middleground between hipfire and sights and it simply doesnt work. Looking down blocky sights trying to hit super fast small hitbox character models who are total bullet sponges with a high recoil gun is the most batty gunplay system ive seen in a game. Hipfire is actually fun but is being held back by ironsights because to give ironsights a purpose they had to give hipfire more spread. It’s such a shame cause if they just got rid of ironsights this game could be soo awesome.
Sorry that was really horribly written but i hope you get the idea:

  • ironsights ‘need’ to be in the game to cater to the masses
  • ironsights therefor need a purpose to justify them being here so they get rid of all bullet spread when looking down sights
  • as such hipfiring at long range doesn’t work cause they added extra spread to hipfire to give a reason to use ironsights
  • trying to hit super fast, small hit box, bullet spongey enemies while looking down blocky sights with really high recoil guns is impossible, even an in game tool tip says ‘use ironsights to shoot far away enemies who arent looking at you’
  • I mean really thats the niche ironsights have decided to fill? shooting afk distant enemies and whats the price we pay for that? high spread on hipefire making guns useless / very random at long ranges

Just man up and get rid of ironsights do you seriously think its gonna make more ‘casual’ players feel at home?
theyre gonna look down sights and get battered by any player using hipfire and just get confused / raged
CS is doing so damn well recently and doesn;t need ironsights cause it has actual fun hipfire gameplay
XT could fill a really cool niche of hipfire bullet spongey combat but instead it’s being held by the throat by ironsights which are clearly being forced in by some suit who thinks ironsights will sell better than o i duno a fun game that ppl wanna play! cmon
Recently i was trying that new character redeye and omg his gun lol, shooting that thing with ironsights is actually impossible and although im not an apsolute top aimer like some players i’ve seen (that BMX guy? he’s insane) i’m above average and i know that all you have to do is attempt to ADS with that thing and you can clearly see why ironsights are not working in this game right now. Hipfiring with that gun however? alot of fun! I just wish it had less spread -___-

Okay hopefully that made sense, it made sense to me anyway

next some positivity :smiley:
the last patches have been really good
balance is coming along nicely maps are getting better and i like the look of that new greenwhich map. The lobby system is nice and actually the whole UI is really great. options menu is great too. I was thinking about this game as an esport aswell, if it ever got a community big enough to support it cough get rid of ironsights and maybe it will cough. Having wolfenstein gameplay but with so many different mercs would be a really original thing in the esports scene i think. It’s like fps meets moba where you could have crazy team compositions and in the same way the crowd goes mental when teemo gets picked in LoL i could imagine someone locking in phantom and ppl going O SNAP PHANTOM, or a team comp of 5 phoenixes becoming the meta. pretty fun to think about

Ok now maps
ehhhhhhhhhhh theyre not great. Like i said before theyve been getting some changes in the right direction but like people have said time and time again they feel like a rat in a maze. I think a good example is the 2 halfs of warterloo map. The first half is IMO really bad its totaly cramped and just a bit of a cluster **** and again feels like your being pushed down halls. The second half is really great though the big open streets give you a sense of freedom with lots of flanking opportunities and big battlegrounds even inside the last objective room. I’d really like to see a big RTCW map like village or beach ported in to XT just to see how it would play. Would it be terrible or really great? If its great then your current maps are the problem if not then theres a deeper problem with the game. Greenwhich from what ive seen without playing it looks like its pretty open so i look forward to giving that map a try once it comes back on the servers.

I guess thats it, thanks for reading if you did?
xxxxxxxxxxxxx


(titan) #2

Oh 1 more thing in regards to the gunplay
I play on very low sensitivity and trying to control the recoil of some of the guns (particularly when ADS) on low sens is seriously impossible
I run out of mouse mat trying to pull the gun down and then if the fight isn’t over and i need to continue calibrating my aim past the first burst I can’t because my arms in a crazy position from all the recoil compensation
If you reduced the recoil on the guns significantly then ironsights might actually be viable at long range (tracking a target could be possible) and then the game might feel like it makes a bit more sense
or alternatively just remove sights, that would be nice


(warbie) #3

[QUOTE=titan;493549]Hello, i’ve been in the beta (alpha?) a few months now so here are my thoughts presented as a stream of consciousness

alot of wolf players (myself included) wanted to see this game be purely hipfire. I really tried to understand where sd were coming from by including iron sights and i dont mind ironsights in alot of games but its just a detriment to extraction at this point. I remember reading somewhere on the old forums that ‘its expected from a modern shooter’ but i mean really? is that the only reason cause it feels like it is. Right now the gunplay is so wonky because its a middleground between hipfire and sights and it simply doesnt work. Looking down blocky sights trying to hit super fast small hitbox character models who are total bullet sponges with a high recoil gun is the most batty gunplay system ive seen in a game. Hipfire is actually fun but is being held back by ironsights because to give ironsights a purpose they had to give hipfire more spread. It’s such a shame cause if they just got rid of ironsights this game could be soo awesome.
Sorry that was really horribly written but i hope you get the idea:

  • ironsights ‘need’ to be in the game to cater to the masses
  • ironsights therefor need a purpose to justify them being here so they get rid of all bullet spread when looking down sights
  • as such hipfiring at long range doesn’t work cause they added extra spread to hipfire to give a reason to use ironsights
  • trying to hit super fast, small hit box, bullet spongey enemies while looking down blocky sights with really high recoil guns is impossible, even an in game tool tip says ‘use ironsights to shoot far away enemies who arent looking at you’
  • I mean really thats the niche ironsights have decided to fill? shooting afk distant enemies and whats the price we pay for that? high spread on hipefire making guns useless / very random at long ranges

Just man up and get rid of ironsights do you seriously think its gonna make more ‘casual’ players feel at home?
theyre gonna look down sights and get battered by any player using hipfire and just get confused / raged
CS is doing so damn well recently and doesn;t need ironsights cause it has actual fun hipfire gameplay
XT could fill a really cool niche of hipfire bullet spongey combat but instead it’s being held by the throat by ironsights which are clearly being forced in by some suit who thinks ironsights will sell better than o i duno a fun game that ppl wanna play! cmon
Recently i was trying that new character redeye and omg his gun lol, shooting that thing with ironsights is actually impossible and although im not an apsolute top aimer like some players i’ve seen (that BMX guy? he’s insane) i’m above average and i know that all you have to do is attempt to ADS with that thing and you can clearly see why ironsights are not working in this game right now. Hipfiring with that gun however? alot of fun! I just wish it had less spread -___-[/QUOTE]

//youtu.be/QzBmQMyYDBk

Hey man. Great minds and all that. I’ve posted every point you made re. hipfiring repeatedly on these forums :slight_smile: It’s Extraction’s elephant in the room. Everyone knows the game would be better without ironsights - adding a slow, clunky, inprecise mechanic into a game that’s trying to be about fast, fluid arcady action is nuts. But hey, ppl expect it in fps these days - so let’s have ironsights and the balance borking, playing it safe and pleasing nobody, hipfire nerfing goodness they introduce.


(Glottis-3D) #4

a lot of plusses go to titan for that post!

quite a few players said something like this, - you cannot cripple nipfire, so that iron-sight gets important. IS should be an OPTION, not a MUST.

my additional suggestion is to try to tweak ironsight.
-FOV
-speed
-cg_drawgun 0
(or at least weapon visibility (in several games IS_view get unimportant part of the weapon blurred))

i dont remember IS being pain in the ass in ETQW??


(Kl3ppy) #5

[QUOTE=warbie;493559]
Hey man. Great minds and all that. I’ve posted every point you made re. hipfiring repeatedly on these forums :slight_smile: It’s Extraction’s elephant in the room. Everyone knows the game would be better without ironsights - adding a slow, clunky, inprecise mechanic into a game that’s trying to be about fast, fluid arcady action is nuts. But hey, ppl expect it in fps these days - so let’s have ironsights and the balance borking, playing it safe and pleasing nobody, hipfire nerfing goodness they introduce.[/QUOTE]

Some should really get over the fact that xt wont be RTCW/ET2. How are you playing? I mean you dont use IS all the time. On distance, yes you use it but at close/mid range combat hipfire is your choice.


(k1ruaa) #6

[QUOTE=titan;493549] It’s such a shame cause if they just got rid of ironsights this game could be soo awesome.
[/QUOTE]

That’s what we’re trying to make them understand for a while yea…

Cmon stop bringing this argument each time someone complain about iron sights. We don’t want this game to be ET2, we want this game to be good and fun to play. And the fact is that iron sight is really screwing the gunplay in this game. At least it’s the opinion of a lot of persons here.

If they really don’t want to get rid of it because they think that it’ll bring players (which is pure nonsens imo) then ok but still make hip fire worth it in every situation.


(Kl3ppy) #7

You annoy me with get rid of IS and I annoy you with this isnt ET2.

But what does removing IS add to the game? It’s only a personal taste, you dont like it so get rid of it. I’m glad that IS is in the game and I’m pretty sure it will stay.


(Kendle) #8

So increase your sens, it’s not rocket science :slight_smile: Jeez, the number of people around here who expect the game to change so they’re good at it, rather than change themselves so they’re good at the game.

IS should stay because it make sense, it’s intuitive, and it fits the semi-realistic real world environment in which the game exists. If this was a truly arcade shooter set in an unrealistic sci-fi / fantasy environment then yeah, go nuts and adopt unrealistic weapon mechanics, but it’s not.

And before anyone says RTCW / ET didn’t have IS and they were set in WWII, remember they’re old games, made when PC’s didn’t have the processing power to render smooth 1st person and 3rd person IS animations. If either were being made today they would most definately have IS.

As it stands IS in XT is almost worthless, I can’t actually remember the last time I scoped with an SMG, guns are too weak and fall-off damage is too great at the distances IS is useful for, to the extent that if you’re shooting an enemy at 100+ metres you’re only going to tickle him regardless of whether you IS or not.


(k1ruaa) #9

[QUOTE=Shifty.;493584]You annoy me with get rid of IS and I annoy you with this isnt ET2.

But what does removing IS add to the game? It’s only a personal taste, you dont like it so get rid of it. I’m glad that IS is in the game and I’m pretty sure it will stay.[/QUOTE]

It does not annoy me :XD
I just think it’s a pointless argument. Iron sight does not fit this game it’s obvious. Why is everyone complaining about the gunplay in your opinion? Because iron sight imply that hip fire is nerfed, and that suck.


(Kendle) #10

IS absolutely fits this game, that’s obvious. It’s set in London, a real place, the guns are based on real guns, people move in a fairly realistic and intuitive manner. In “real life” to hit someone 100 metres away with an SMG you’d raise it to your shoulder and aim down the sights, hell to hit someone 10 metres away you’d ADS. IS completely and utterly fits the game and you’re living to la-la land to even consider otherwise.

It might “imply” it, but it doesn’t (nerf hip-fire). Hip fire is worthless long before IS becomes useful due to weak guns and aggressive damage fall-off. IS is just a FOV toggle, you can pretty much safely ignore it 99% of the time.


(Kl3ppy) #11

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Kendle again.


(k1ruaa) #12

[QUOTE=Kendle;493591]IS absolutely fits this game, that’s obvious. It’s set in London, a real place, the guns are based on real guns, people move in a fairly realistic and intuitive manner. In “real life” to hit someone 100 metres away with an SMG you’d raise it to your shoulder and aim down the sights, hell to hit someone 10 metres away you’d ADS. IS completely and utterly fits the game and you’re living to la-la land to even consider otherwise.

It might “imply” it, but it doesn’t (nerf hip-fire). Hip fire is worthless long before IS becomes useful due to weak guns and aggressive damage fall-off. IS is just a FOV toggle, you can pretty much safely ignore it 99% of the time.[/QUOTE]

WOW THIS IS THE WORST ARGUMENT I EVER RED.

Let me explain you something, this is a game, the art of the game is semi realistic. Does that imply that the gameplay has to be realistic ? Absolutely not.
Cmon men this is not a war simulation “a la” Arma this is supposed to be a fast paced FPS.

Can’t believe what you just said, that kind of mentality (aka compare to real life) destroy video games…


(Kl3ppy) #13

[QUOTE=k1ruaa;493595]WOW THIS IS THE WORST ARGUMENT I EVER RED.

Let me explain you something, this is a game, the art of the game is semi realistic. Does that imply that the gameplay has to be realistic ? Absolutely not.
Cmon men this is not a war simulation “a la” Arma this is supposed to be a fast paced FPS.

Can’t believe what you just said, that kind of mentality (aka compare to real life) destroy video games…[/QUOTE]

What is fast paced? Is it just fast running? Or does it include short TTK? Or should the match itself be intense? What I assume a fast paced game looks like is this:
You run as fast as a maniac, 2 or 3 hits kill you and the average match time is between 5 and 10 mins. This would be a fast pace game.

Why is IS slowing the gameplay down? Isnt crouch slowing the game down more than IS?
And on top of that, I believe using IS in every situation isnt good, you get killed easy when using IS in close combat. The downsides of IS are too big in such situations. IS has some advantages, but those advantages only apply in the situation SD wanted them, e.g. mid to long range fighting. And therefore IS is a good fit in the game because SD put some thoughts in IS and where it’s useful and where it’s not useful.


(Kendle) #14

k1ruaa, seriously, don’t be a ****, no-one’s arguing for real world simulation a la Arma. IS simply “makes sense” because that’s what you would (instinctively) do when firing a real gun. Being “just a game” doesn’t mean you re-invent physics and throw all common sense out of the window.

.
.
.

And it makes so little difference anyway that this whole debate is pointless.

Just had a run around on an empty server shooting at walls with Sawbonz SMG, from various distances, and it’s insanely accurate (as long as you burst fire). From here-on in I’m ignoring anyone complaining about spread, this game has virtually none, hip-fire is HUGELY more advantageous than IS you really can safely ignore it’s very existence if you don’t like it. Leave it to the noobs who are going to be IS-ing for all they’re worth come open beta. :slight_smile:


(k1ruaa) #15

[QUOTE=Shifty.;493596]What is fast paced? Is it just fast running? Or does it include short TTK? Or should the match itself be intense? What I assume a fast paced game looks like is this:
You run as fast as a maniac, 2 or 3 hits kill you and the average match time is between 5 and 10 mins. This would be a fast pace game.

Why is IS slowing the gameplay down? Isnt crouch slowing the game down more than IS?
And on top of that, I believe using IS in every situation isnt good, you get killed easy when using IS in close combat. The downsides of IS are too big in such situations. IS has some advantages, but those advantages only apply in the situation SD wanted them, e.g. mid to long range fighting. And therefore IS is a good fit in the game because SD put some thoughts in IS and where it’s useful and where it’s not useful.[/QUOTE]

Ok no,

A fast paced fps means fast paced gameplay, not fast TTK and fast map time. What I mean by that is that fights are on the move, you need to have tracking to do well, the TTK has to be low to get interesting fire fights, weapons have to be accurate because the difficulty comes from being able to track an enemy not being able to manage ‘realistic parameters of a weapon’ like spread or recoil (Of course a little bit of recoil is fine).

And about crouch, no it does not slows the game as much as IS because you’re still on the move, sometimes pressing a little crouch to mess with the player in front of you and his ability to adapt quickly vertically. IS just makes you more accurate and slows you down while you should always be accurate and fast.


(k1ruaa) #16

[QUOTE=Kendle;493597]k1ruaa, seriously, don’t be a ****, no-one’s arguing for real world simulation a la Arma. IS simply “makes sense” because that’s what you would (instinctively) do when firing a real gun. Being “just a game” doesn’t mean you re-invent physics and throw all common sense out of the window.

.
.
.

And it makes so little difference anyway that this whole debate is pointless.

Just had a run around on an empty server shooting at walls with Sawbonz SMG, from various distances, and it’s insanely accurate (as long as you burst fire). From here-on in I’m ignoring anyone complaining about spread, this game has virtually none, hip-fire is HUGELY more advantageous than IS you really can safely ignore it’s very existence if you don’t like it. Leave it to the noobs who are going to be IS-ing for all they’re worth come open beta. :)[/QUOTE]

I am not trying to be a dyck really… I am giving my honest opinion and comparing a game to real life feels stupid to me. You say it’s insanely accurate, sometimes yes and sometimes as I said in another post you can empty a magazine without hitting. Can’t believe you haven’t noticed that.

Though this may be for a good part due to net code or something that screw the hit registration. Not sure.


(Kendle) #17

I think it is for the most part net code or something that’s screwing with the hit-reg. I also think the fall-off damage modifier is too great, and, crucially, you have no feedback or feeling as to when or by how much the damage drops off.

I honestly think this whole debate is a red herring. I’m even tempted to un-bind my IS key cos it’s so worthless I can’t imagine ever missing it if I didn’t have it. I’m pretty sure I can use that button for far more useful things. :slight_smile:


(k1ruaa) #18

[QUOTE=Kendle;493601]I think it is for the most part net code or something that’s screwing with the hit-reg. I also think the fall-off damage modifier is too great, and, crucially, you have no feedback or feeling as to when or by how much the damage drops off.

I honestly think this whole debate is a red herring. I’m even tempted to un-bind my IS key cos it’s so worthless I can’t imagine ever missing it if I didn’t have it. I’m pretty sure I can use that button for far more useful things. :)[/QUOTE]

Then again, sorry for being a d*ck, but why not remove it if it’s useless ? Just to make noobs happy to stand still and die instantly with 4hs?


(Kl3ppy) #19

[QUOTE=k1ruaa;493598]
And about crouch, no it does not slows the game as much as IS because you’re still on the move, sometimes pressing a little crouch to mess with the player in front of you and his ability to adapt quickly vertically. IS just makes you more accurate and slows you down while you should always be accurate and fast.[/QUOTE]

Movement contradicts Accuracy. When you move, your Accuracy drops, when you stand still, your Accuracy raises. IS does follow thos principle. When you get constant killed by IS, your aim isnt that good because you are not able to track a slow moving target. And on top of that, how are you able to tell if your opponent did use IS when he killed you? By the slow movement? Fine, but why didnt you kill him when it should be all about tracking? I thought slow moving targets are easier to track or am I wrong?

Anyways, I’m sick and tired of this discussion.

/end


(Kendle) #20

Partly because it’s in, so leaving it in involves less effort than taking it out, partly because you do things for a reason, and there’s no reason to take it out, but also because as the OP acknowledges, it’s “expected” in games these days. There are 10’s of 1000’s of people out there who’ve never played ET and will expect to be able to IS in this new contemporary modern shooter. We might consider those people noobs but they’re the ones that are going to pay for the stuff that keeps the game alive for the rest of us.