some feedback on xt

[onYn]

Totally agree on reducing spread and adding more maps with bigger areas to fight from different angels and stuffs

[k1ruaa]

Movement contradicts Accuracy. When you move, your Accuracy drops, when you stand still, your Accuracy raises. IS does follow thos principle. When you get constant killed by IS, your aim isnt that good because you are not able to track a slow moving target. And on top of that, how are you able to tell if your opponent did use IS when he killed you? By the slow movement? Fine, but why didnt you kill him when it should be all about tracking? I thought slow moving targets are easier to track or am I wrong?

This is absolutely right, I have no difficulty at all tracking the head of someone ISing but due to spread (or net code or dunno) it’s not always enough to kill him so I am forced to IS to actually land my shots.
Sometimes hits are fine and the guy instantly die 4hs but the problem is that it’s not consistent and it’s not an aim problem on my part.

I would prefer that players actually learn to shoot without iron sight even at long range, it would be much more challenging for everyone.

[Kl3ppy]

[QUOTE=k1ruaa;493607]This is absolutely right, I have no difficulty at all tracking the head of someone ISing but due to spread (or net code or dunno) it’s not always enough to kill him so I am forced to IS to actually land my shots.
Sometimes hits are fine and the guy instantly die 4hs but the problem is that it’s not consistent and it’s not an aim problem on my part.

I would prefer that players actually learn to shoot without iron sight even at long range, it would be much more challenging for everyone.[/QUOTE]

I dont believe that the issue you describe is down to spread/recoil, I believe it has to do with hitreg.

[k1ruaa]

I dont believe that the issue you describe is down to spread/recoil, I believe it has to do with hitreg.

Well then I really hope that the ‘big update’ regarding this issue will come fast and fix it.

[Kl3ppy]

Well then I really hope that the ‘big update’ regarding this issue will come fast and fix it.

me too

[titan]

So increase your sens, it’s not rocket science Jeez, the number of people around here who expect the game to change so they’re good at it, rather than change themselves so they’re good at the game.

Are you serious? I play wolf quake and cs with low sens but for xt i need to increase my sens even though my entire argument is that aiming in this game is already way too difficult? ye increasing my sens should really help with tracking enemies -_- Did what i say really sound like i need help being good? I’m already decent at the game this is just an annoyance which I have seen reported else where in the forum which is what reminded me to update my post with it. XT is the only game ive played with this problem cause it;s the only game with bullet sponge enemies and super high recoil, again all linking back to the generally broken gunplay.

The rest of your post is really infuriating cause you clearly haven’t got a clue what your talking about.

IS should stay because it make sense, it’s intuitive, and it fits the semi-realistic real world environment in which the game exists. If this was a truly arcade shooter set in an unrealistic sci-fi / fantasy environment then yeah, go nuts and adopt unrealistic weapon mechanics, but it’s not.

Please. Just please. When you start using realism to justify game mechanics you already lose your credibility. No one gives a **** if ironsights ‘make sense’ in the gameworld people care about a good game. But hell, if you say this isn’t an arcade shooter then i’ll just take your word for it. I’ll forget about the quirky character designs, the super fast movement speed, the wall jumping, the fact enemies can take 30 bullets to the chest. Ye your right this game totaly needs realistic weapon mechanics!

And before anyone says RTCW / ET didn’t have IS and they were set in WWII, remember they’re old games, made when PC’s didn’t have the processing power to render smooth 1st person and 3rd person IS animations. If either were being made today they would most definately have IS.

Trust me, no one was going to say ‘Ye but rtcw was set in WW2 a totaly authentic setting but it didn’t have ironsights!’ (cause people don’t care about authenticity even in a ww2 shooter let alone make-believe london)
They might say ‘Hey rtcw didnt have ironsights and it was a really popular game considered one of the best fps of all time!’
I wonder if it would have become a classic with extraction style ironsights and gunplay, i doubt it

As it stands IS in XT is almost worthless, I can’t actually remember the last time I scoped with an SMG, guns are too weak and fall-off damage is too great at the distances IS is useful for, to the extent that if you’re shooting an enemy at 100+ metres you’re only going to tickle him regardless of whether you IS or not.

Agreed, ironsights are worthless. So why are they here at the expense of hipfire. You claim that you can chose not to use them therefor they’re not doing you any harm but if you actually read my topic you’d understand that it’s not that simple. By having them in the game they were forced to increase hipfire spread which has totally butchered the gunplay. So even though i dont use IS, everytime i can;t hit someone at long range with hipfire smg i think damn you ironsights, why did you have to come and ruin this otherwise decent game.

[BAMFana]

Then again, sorry for being a d*ck, but why not remove it if it’s useless ? Just to make noobs happy to stand still and die instantly with 4hs?

While I mostly agree with Kendle that iron sights is “almost worthless” compared to hipfiring in most situations, it still has some potential benefits. For one, it allows players who aren’t skilled enough to control recoil and spread when firing to at least be able to hit something at mid to long range. This is actually a great benefit, and one skilled players should appreciate, since it allows less skilled players to be somewhat competitive, while still giving a huge advantage to the skilled player. Contrary to what your post seems to be saying, that noob isn’t suddenly going to start getting frags if you take away his option to use iron sights – rather the opposite. Another benefit is that in certain situations, the tradeoff to using iron sights (nearly stationary – easy target) is worth it in order to hit more accurately at long range. Being able to gauge whether or not it is beneficial in a certain situation is actually also a skill, as is aiming while using iron sights (which is really difficult at the moment, I barely ever use them even at super long range because I can’t aim for **** while using iron sights), both of which add more depth to the gunplay.

I think a lot of the complaints about iron sights are based on a misconception that somehow iron sights are to blame for the current spread/recoil system. This is, however, as far as I can tell, not the case. SD employees have already posted their reasoning behind the spread/recoil system and it’s primarily concerned with creating meaningful differences between different weapons and different mercs.

So yeah, I agree with SD’s decision to have iron sights in Extraction. I very rarely use them myself, but I can appreciate the benefits of having them in the game regardless.

[Violator]

I’m on the fence about IS. Hated them at first as a Q2 / ET die-hard but they do have use at mid-range. Early on due to the spread being much worse than it is now with HF, IS was the only option I had to hit anything even close range but as Fana said above, as a trade-off IS leaves you an easier target to hit due to lack of ability to dodge, plus the time to activate IS mode can cost you that crucial few ms for the enemy to triple-ding you.

Now I tend to use HF as the spread isn’t that bad now if you compensate for recoil plus you get your movement back. IS also provides a good aiming learning curve for new players until they get the experience to be able to adjust for hipfire recoil.

[onYn]

Yeah, removing iron sights wont be a change to the better. Iron sights have some benefits, even if they are small, and by that can be usefull in specific situations, especially for people who are good in using them. I don´t see how they are connected with the spread, there will allways be a little spread (for me it´s too much right now tho), and on large distance this spread may be too big to properly hit, especially considering the (hopefully smaller in the future!) recoil… what sounds reasonable.
As long as the spread in general can be reduced, there is no reason for taking away iron sights. It´s after all an option you don´t have to use but many others may appreciate.

[Protekt1]

The ironsight removal debate has been beaten to death. I’d rather have it in because it creates a system where you have to use skill and judgement in choosing between hipfire and ADS. You’re not supposed to be hipfiring continuously at long range targets and you’re not supposed to have incredibly quick TTK at long range targets even in ADS.

I am assuming the tooltip is trying to tell you that IS is a situational tool and not meant to be used all the time. It is actually good advice since hipfire in that situation is generally less reliable. But if you’re having trouble killing with IS in this game, it isn’t the game’s fault.

[Kendle]

titan, most of your post is arrogant opinionated nonsense and doesn’t address the point I’m making, but I’ll respond to this :-

By having them in the game they were forced to increase hipfire spread which has totally butchered the gunplay.

Hip-fire spread is miniscule. Having IS in the game has not “butchered” the gun-play at all, at most it’s just been “slightly grazed”.

[k1ruaa]

I think a lot of the complaints about iron sights are based on a misconception that somehow iron sights are to blame for the current spread/recoil system. This is, however, as far as I can tell, not the case.

They are indeed to blame cause without IS, the spread / recoil ratio would just be balanced between weapons and not between weapon hipfire and weapons IS. So the result would be less spread / recoil overall (Don’t really care about recoil though)

So let’s encourage noobs staying noobs by using iron sight to try to hit something rather than force them to be actually able to aim properly.

[warbie]

In all fairness, Kendle, I agree with what titan and k1ruaa are saying. And not just because of the negative effect iron sights have on arcady gameplay. A game’s setting should have no impact on mechanics - that should be driven only by what makes it fun. And really, because there’s some realism in Extraction it should have iron sights because that’s how people shoot in real life? That makes no sense at all.

And we both know that had RTCW been made today with IS it would have sucked major balls!

[Raviolay]

Still think after all this time the IS should just be treated like zoom in quake, no movement penalty, no weapon accuracy improvement just a lower FOV. Only in this case the game lowers the FOV, and brings up IS. Maybe give us the option to remove the IS, and just have a zoom as well, all of this is never going to happen anyway.

[shaftz0r]

i just dont understand this conversation at all. this is what im reading “i would rather hit absolutely nothing at long range, than have the option to IS”. I have never in my life been a fan of IS, but it makes sense at long range, specifically with falloff damage on medics, i find myself using it on rare occasions, with success.

as far as titans post is concerned, it seems to me that you’re having issues with in game sensitivity, or you just arent a very good aimer. Xt after the last spread reduction, and hitbox size increase, this game is a TON easier to register hits than most games, and with the high RoF, getting 3 headshots in a row is super easy.

[titan]

Still think after all this time the IS should just be treated like zoom in quake, no movement penalty, no weapon accuracy improvement just a lower FOV. Only in this case the game lowers the FOV, and brings up IS. Maybe give us the option to remove the IS, and just have a zoom as well, all of this is never going to happen anyway.

I like this idea, zooming isnt really the problem with ADS its the blocky sights that make tracking impossible. Maybe even red dot sights on every gun would fix this rather than trying to aim down a brick.

“i would rather hit absolutely nothing at long range, than have the option to IS”

What about being able to hit at long range without having to iron sight by having lower hipfire spread.
And ye aiming is easier since these last patches which is great but headshots outside of very close range still just feel too random in my opinion.
I was reading a thread where someone said the wolf hitboxes were like 50% bigger than extraction ones? Not sure if its true but ye, pretty mental

[FireWorks]

I think the key argument in this discussion was that there is a “feature” that pros dont use and that makes newbs&noobs die a lot more, just because its there. Thats ok for some side feature but not for a core mechanic, in my book. It is not their bad aim, it is that they are used to other games or “natural” behaviour. Bam, owned, next game to test on the market…

Whatever happens to ADS, it should change from its current state.

My perception is that atm in almost any range a nonIS player will own an equally skilled ISuser.
Until that sweet spot where IS becomes viable isnt changing to a map fitting value, you can savely demand to cancel the IS feature at all.
High evasive speed, but able to deliver high damage on target via burst control VERSUS an almost stationary target, that has quite the same chance of damage but with the downside of having to adjust aim on a fast target and an obstructive gunmodel.

So, what can we adjust? How about the speed value while ADS? If I dont lose my evasive ability, I might gain the upperhand.
(Are the people out there using FOV toggles instead of IS?)

My personal favorite is the introduction of reflex sights and/or showgun 0 (which is not as new customer friendly). I cant aim for **** with IS but Im used to ADS for a long time now (besides TF2). That would only be a factor and not an ultimate solution. The rest is tweaking.

Could also go for even more aim/damage penalties (spread, recoil, flinch?, damage falloff?) on movement, but thats gotta be very small. And you already almost reached a cap when it comes to increasing aim/damage of ADS players cause the main problem is hitting/tracing the fast evasive target.
Slowing the hipshooter? Maybe, but there was already the demand of some to allow for the highest movement speed to allow fire…

I hope we find a balance between the CARB9 and the QWPromod non-fall-off deathrays. But for now, kicking the IS/ADS sounds pretty reasonable for the fast gunplay. It would complement the game’s current attributes and show new players the way to go.

(Random quote from the servers: Its ridiculous that hipfiring an smg outplays a sniper rifle over half a map)

[Kendle]

A game’s setting should have no impact on mechanics - that should be driven only by what makes it fun.

Except that fun is subjective, and in the absence of a universal definition of what is and what isn’t fun games can only “make sense” within the environment and structure they’re designed around. What’s more, SD have explicitly stated this (as regards movement certainly but I expect they mean everything else as well). What’s more, more, this game is F2P, and selling scopes is almost certainly part and parcel of its monetisation strategy, and you can’t sell scopes for guns that don’t scope.

And we both know that had RTCW been made today with IS it would have sucked major balls!

If it’d only ever been made with IS we wouldn’t be having this discussion, we’d think it ridiculous that in a shooting game you couldn’t raise the gun to your shoulder to aim it better.

[shaftz0r]

im not gonna lie, again all im reading is “omg im bad with this feature, change it”. as previously stated, i hate IS, but it has a spot in this game. if you think that hipfiring an smg at long range will beat someone using IS, you’re very very wrong. there is an obvious spot distance wise for me personally, probably because ive had more time in this game, but it is very clear when to use it, and when not to. the vast majority of time, dont use it.

[QUOTE=FireWorks;493638]
(Random quote from the servers: Its ridiculous that hipfiring an smg outplays a sniper rifle over half a map)[/QUOTE]

^this person is extremely bad. snipers (with a good aimer) are probably the most powerful class in the game.

[FireWorks]

[QUOTE=shaftz0r;493642]
^this person is extremely bad. snipers (with a good aimer) are probably the most powerful class in the game.[/QUOTE]

and if you miss your first shot, youre dead vs a mediocre SMG user