Solving QW's custom content


(tokamak) #1

(I posted this topic on the QW forums as well, but I’m actually adressing SD so it might fit better here :D)

This discussion has been done to death already I know. But this game still has the problem of custom content not being played enough.

I’ve always been in favour of keeping the ranked servers for what they are, they safeguard the quality the game started with and prevents the game turning into all servers running DM-extractedcube.

However, there IS quality content in the custom section, and it’s all going to waste right now.

So what we need is, next to ranked and custom, a THIRD section where the ‘approved custom’ goes. This means Splash Damage will set a decent bar for proper custom maps, collects them and releases them in the form of a patch.

This way, server hosts can chose to play custom (anything goes), custom approved (validated custom content) and ranked (official maps).

This will open up a whole range of extra content to the casual player WHILE the official content remains unblemished.

Further more, free extra content will keep the kiddies busy so they don’t spent all their money before they’ve bought BRINK.

It’s a win-win situation! I understand you chaps at SD are very busy at the moment but surely gathering the few maps and putting them under a new filter shouldn’t be a big problem? After all, from the snap to grid articles I see you already know what the real gems are.

EDIT: And now I think of it, there’s another advantage for SD, QW can be used as an excellent guinea pig to see if this ‘approved custom’ section works, if it does, you’ve got yourself a proper way of dealing with custom content for Brink, that means, for PC as well as consoles. With a bigger audience there’s much more incentive for mod makers to make more and better maps.


(Nail) #2

BAH !!!
just get rid of ranked servers and “stat page”, they sucked out whatever life QW had


(Stroggafier) #3

@tokamak, you have hit the nail on the head. hehehe.

Notwithstanding cost, releasing “official” patches is IMHO the best way to extend gameplay. Playing with settings, manually overlaying new parms onto a release, etc. is forcing the buyer into a technical role that the vast majority of gamers would not accept. Its much easier and more comforting to pay $19.95 for an official expansion.


(Aristotle) #4

Are you going to pay Splash Damage to release the new patches?


(Stroggafier) #5

payment can come in many forms, such as goodwill, slowed attrition, and spin off purchases, to name a few. Ultimately, the ROI decision is in the hands of the one calculating/receiving the gain.


(light_sh4v0r) #6

I think the costs of releasing a patch like that would be less than what Splashdamage donated to Tapirs for this Christmas event. Not saying we’re more important than tapirs obviously, but you get the idea :slight_smile:


(Aristotle) #7

I agree with the idea, but unless I am misunderstanding some of what was said, it’s going to cost them time and money to keep putting these new maps into “patch form” that people can download for free.

tokamak, when you say SD should create “a THIRD section where the ‘approved custom’ goes” what exactly are you asking for specifically. Is it something along the lines of allowing the maps they feel meet their standards and are put into their new patches should be allowed on the ranked servers?

Regardless of how much it might cost them to put them out, there will be a cost, and expecting them to do it for free is a bit selfish of us, and I doubt that Activision is going to pay them for any further updates or patches to the game.


(Apples) #8

Just make a “customthon” then, when we reach X amount of monies they release a patch with some kewl maps :smiley:


(Stroggafier) #9

Along Apple’s suggestion would be pre-orders. When a target order number is reached, the fun begins. If not reached within a year, the options are dropped.

Expansion Pack v1.5.1 at $19.95, gets a new .exe that extends the campaign into, say, Australia and has three new maps. Sign here, please.


(stealth6) #10

couldn’t they just allow certain maps on ranked servers without much work, or would it require a patch?

I’d step off the idea of a 3rd type though since that’s too much work. Also you keep talking about paying for a patch, but these maps were made by the community for free so wth?
What are they winning instead of money PR, just like valve is reeling in more customers with TF2 with these updates.
Some people might not have heard of quake wars yet and if they hear about the patch they might go and buy it.

Also you are saying they would have to waste money but seriously, I guess at least somebody still plays quake wars from the SD team or activision team, so it would just be a case of making the patch which is what a days work?

and it’s not like GOOD maps are released everyweek so they would only have to release a new patch every half year or year even…

This would also be a good way to win some PR cause what do modders want most? appreciation for their work and what is more rewarding then having your map widespread?


(light_sh4v0r) #11

I think the appreciation is the crucial part here. I for one find it very demotivating to see how little attention the custom content gets, and I didn’t even spend all that much time on it.


(DrFunkenstein) #12

Perhaps I’m missing the point, but what good would adding a third type of server do? Don’t get me wrong, I admire the people that put time and energy in those custom maps, but how would this solve the problem that those maps are hardly ever played? Why would people suddenly start playing them if there would be a third type of server?

If they get the “seal of approval”, wouldn’t it be simpler to allow those maps on ranked servers? Combine them into sets of 3 and add them to the current map rotation as a new campaign.

Dr. Funkenstein


(-SSF-Sage) #13

Yes, very demotivating. I personally did quit after a month or two.


(Stroggafier) #14

@Stealth6, have you tried to import a custom map into the official ETQW release? Can’t be done (edit: without losing the 12 standard maps), so yes, a patch is needed. Its my understanding there already exists a modified executible (e.g. ProMod), that could likely be used as a starting point. Apparently, it has drawbacks, such as no automatic texture map loading (edit: may have been fixed in a more recent release) - that seems to be needed to make this a polished version.

Making custom maps “official” would also add an effective single player capability that many custom maps lack (edit: not because the mods can’t, but because many don’t add the logic due to the extra work needed). Custom maps primarily are aimed at the multiplayer forum - no bots needed.

Agree completely that many modders are motivated by recognition, especially tangible motivation like cash for their work. Think of them as very low cost, very high quality subcontractors. :wink: Add their praises into the release and everyone is all smiles. (edit: I have done over 20 maps and several campaigns for Disciples II - its only 2-D and not nearly as difficult as ETQW)

There is already enough 3rd party material to create a rather hefty release. I’m suggesting that it does not need to be a “patch” but rather an “expansion”, with all the cash flow benefits that implies (edit: including permissions and maybe a little cash)


(timestart) #15

[QUOTE=Stroggafier;206329]@Stealth6, have you tried to import a custom map into the official ETQW release? Can’t be done, so yes, a patch is needed. Its my understanding there already exists a modified executible (e.g. ProMod), that could likely be used as a starting point. Apparently, it has drawbacks, such as no automatic texture map loading - that seems to be needed to make this a polished version.

Making custom maps “official” would also add an effective single player capability that many custom maps lack. Custom maps work only with the existing altered executibles, which are aimed at the multiplayer forum - no bots.

Agree completely that modders are motivated by recognition, especially tangible motivation like cash for their work. Think of them as very low cost, very high quality subcontractors. :wink: Add their praises into the release and everyone is all smiles.

There is already enough 3rd party material to create a rather hefty release. I’m suggesting that it does not need to be a “patch” but rather an “expansion”, with all the cash flow benefits that implies.[/QUOTE]

This post makes quite literally 0 sense whatsoever.


(shirosae) #16

No, it’s ludicrously easy.

Open up one of the existing pak00X.pk4 files, or make a new pak009.pk4, and put your new maps into it. Adjust the pakmeta.conf in pak001.pk4 and main.script to reference your new maps. You’re done.

The hard bit isn’t getting maps to work in base ETQW, it’s getting the community to agree which maps they want and which revisions of each and how they’re to be organised and what you’re going to do every week when a map gets an update.

Promod has the megatexture autodownload mod intregrated, which is partially why most custom maps servers run it. You connect to a server, and promod autodownloads everything, restarts, and you should be ready to play. It also has the base script memory allocation increased, so you can load up more maps because ETQW starts complaining.

This modder doesn’t give a damn about cash or recognition.

As long as Activision actually asks the people who own that work for permission before shoving it into an official package that holds rapidly outdated versions of their work.


(Scrupus) #17

[QUOTE=Stroggafier;206329]@Stealth6, have you tried to import a custom map into the official ETQW release? Can’t be done, so yes, a patch is needed. Its my understanding there already exists a modified executible (e.g. ProMod), that could likely be used as a starting point. Apparently, it has drawbacks, such as no automatic texture map loading - that seems to be needed to make this a polished version.

Making custom maps “official” would also add an effective single player capability that many custom maps lack. Custom maps work only with the existing altered executibles, which are aimed at the multiplayer forum - no bots.[/QUOTE]

No offense, but this is totally wrong - if this is what all the “normal” players believe, I’m not surprised so few join us on the custom matches :wink:

The rest you wrote is true however :slight_smile:

Let me try to remove some misunderstandings, and explain some of the problems we’ve had with custom maps in QW.

Q: Can vanilla game play custom maps?
A: Indeed it can, you don’t need any special executable or custom mod to play them with standard ETQW. However, there are some drawbacks when playing custom maps in vanilla, which the mods (and special pak files) can workaround.

Q: Can custom maps be played with bots?
A: Yes, they can. But the map has to be prepared for bot play - if not, the bots will just stay still, doing nothing. But adding bot support to a custom map requires a bit of work, and you also have to compile a special file (AAS) for them to be able to walk around. For some maps (especially the big terrain maps), it’s almost impossible to compile the AAS, without a lot of tweaking. So for this reason, most of the maps don’t support it. At the moment, I think about 10 custom maps support bots.

Q: Can vanilla game use megatextures for custom terrain maps?
A: Yes, but with a hitch: The vanilla game can load and play a custom megatexture without problems, but it can not install them. So you either have to install the megatexture manually, or you can use a mod to do it. This is the main reason most custom maps are played on mod servers only - both eqtwpro and qwta mod can both autodownload and install megatextures automatically, so the user doesn’t have to struggle with any manual installation.

Q: Can the vanilla game load a custom map just as easilly as a official map?
A: Well almost, but there is a drawback - whenever you load a custom map, the client will restart once. This is due to the pure system in idtech4/etqw - to reduce the risk of conflicting declarations when changing maps, the engine reloads everything to make sure you only have the required content loaded.

Q: Why doesn’t the vanilla game restart when you change official maps?
A: Because it loads all the 12 official maps on startup, so as long you stay with them, it’s pure. The moment you load a custom map, it will purge out all the official stuff and replace with the custom map. (simplifed answer).

Q: Can you play custom maps on ranked servers?
A: No. With current ETQW, only the 12 official maps can be played on ranked servers.

ok this got a bit long, so I’ll stop there for now.

But to conclude: It is in theory possible to get a custom expansion pack into the vanilla game, by packing down the map files into the official files, and make sure they get loaded by the vanilla game, just like the offical maps. This would remove the restarts, and megatextures would be installed properly without user interaction.

But is it worth the extra work? Well, I don’t think so. Even if I would love to see it myself, I think it is too late, and the quality of the custom maps is still not on the same level of the official maps. Very few custom maps is in a final stage, with exception of the Chris maps, which are pretty close and probably the most finished maps at this time.

Also, if any official/commercial provider (AV or SD) should do this, they would have to fix at least some of the other bugs in current vanilla (eg. the known exploits), and do a full QA process, which is quite costly. The expansion itself would also be a huge donwload, especially if full-res megatextures should be included (they can be up to 200-300 MB - pr. map!).

So I don’t think this will ever happen. What we could do, is to make a 3rd party unofficial pack with the most “stable” ones, by packing down and prep it so it doesn’t restart (it’s possible but quite some work). But they could still not be played on ranked servers - that will never be possible without some official blessing (and official server update, which again, costs a lot).

Well I don’t really think that is worth the effort either, unless we see a massive amount of new custom players on the battlefield. As written earlier, most mappers are working for the fame and glory, and to see players having fun in the worlds they are creating - cash means nothing and I don’t any mapper (in qw at least) ever had that as motivation.

Frankly I think it’s too late for a massive custom qw community - I’m still working on my own map, but that’s mainly to keep the etqw engine and SDK skills “warm” - while we’re waiting for Brink :wink:

It didn’t really help that our original forums was ripped away so suddenly either - but life is hard, and then you die.

Now wait a moment, with SD’s help we managed to respawn here - so there is maybe life after death! :wink:

Final words: if anyone still wanna support custom maps, the best thing you can do, is to play them! Join custom Nirvana, or feel the wrath of the Makron! :oppressor:

Edit: Dang it, I should have guessed - after writing all that crap, shirosa and timestar beat me, as usual. Prepare to die on next nirvana! :stuck_out_tongue:


(Stroggafier) #18

Great post guys. Thanks. It must be just me that can’t get the custom maps to work. :confused:

Edit: There are quite a few ifs, ands or buts in that list @shirosae, @Scrupus.
Edit: I have gone back to my post and clarified the areas that I understood to be weak/missing and should be included in an expansion release.


(shirosae) #19

This is still wrong. You can add any maps you like without losing any maps.

ETQWpro got the autodownload integration with the 0.55 release, which was released in may 2008: link


(Violator) #20

Nice post scrupus - needs stickifying!

Ditto on the mapping front regarding Brink, though the fact that its supposed to be even harder than ET:QW might put me off :wink: - for me its improving my Blender skills at the moment. I map for my own enjoyment and to have a good time on servers, money certainly doesn’t come into it! Rather than mapping I think I’ll get into making prefabs etc.