Solutions for better training!

[Lumi]

So here is a thread for everyone to chip in with their ideas as to how best to ease in new players to the game and teach them the basics.

I believe we can all agree that newcomers don’t always check merc role calls, nor read carefully the merc description and many even right out skip the tutorial. I mean, I can’t be the only one who experienced a level 6 Skyhammer standing next to an ammo cache or a level 6 sparks reviving you by hand…

So I know many people are against forcing the tutorial and I can respect that so here are my ideas to possibly help give players the knowledge they require:

1. Instead of providing the 30k credits as a reward for the early level up, just give the 30k for successfully completing the tutorial instead.

2)For each merc, when purchased or gained access through rotation, only allow them to be added to the active squad after the correspondent merc role call has been watched. Of course, role calls for those mercs who don’t have any should be made.

3)Maybe look into individual tutorials for each merc. There is valuable knowledge to be learned in certain cases. Things that aren’t immediately obvious. I’m thinking Rhino’s right click spinning the minigun, longer charge on pads gives more health, direct hit with ammo packs reduces ability cool down, etc.

4)Add tips during loadings. Also add tips for the merc one died to during the respawn waiting time (able to turn those off in options though)

EDIT: 5)Add and advanced movement tutorial. Long jump, wall jump and combo explanation.

I’m out of solutions. What do you people think and what do you propose?

[LifeupOmega]

Forcing people to watch videos is a bad idea straight up.

The tutorials on the other hand aren’t. We need a better one anyway.

[Samniss_Arandeen]

After the tutorial, I’d like to have a firing range. It’s how shooters in real life practice their aim, and it would certainly go a long way to get these noobs to work on their aim in this game. It would also be a way for the hardcore crowd to dial in sens, keybinds, the like.

A variant on this is the one you play as Aura at the end of the tutorial. I’d like to have some of those tailored to each Merc for some open practice.

And can we please have an Engineer added to the Free Mercs alongside Skyhammer and Aura? It would free up a spot in the rotation and give an opportunity to teach players how the objectives in this game work. If you’re tired of watching three Skyhammers try to “help” Fletcher fix the EV, this is the best solution.

Finally, the store. It’s locked (rightfully so) for new players. They don’t lock buying new Mercs, however, and the Starter Pack can get you rolling with five more Mercs right out the gate. For the first three levels, players should be restricted to Sky, Aura, and whoever Engineer is on rotation/is made free.

[Drcipres]

The basic tutorial is too basic
You cant use the airstrike, you cant throw ammo to other players, so people will think that the ammo is a source for unlimited ammo for themselves.
The tutorial dont show you the ability to charge paddles.
Maybe a tutorial with each merc, explaining each ability. That you must play as soon as you buy the merc and been able to repeat it.
As soon as you start the game for the first time, force the players to play the tutorial.
Explain the parkour elements.

[TheAcidpiss]

i thought about making a post similar to this, I think the tutorial needs to be more extensive.

As you say about sparks reviving by hand and skyhammer at the ammo box and these guys are LvL 6+!!! ive seen it also!!

I’m playing a lot of execution now soo I see first hand how ignorant/stupid people can be, and some of these people are easily over lvl 5.

ADS’ing at enemies two feet in front of them, finishing of players with their primary while they are standing on top of them, asking a ammo merc for ammo with the in-game command and also via voip while jumping up and down infront of them. People trying to run away from an enemy with their primary out… I could go on and on!

And don’t let me start on the people throwing down ammo stations at the spawn for some easy points…when if they had it even halfway closer to the objective they would be earning a lot more. AND if they had it at a choke point near the objective??? $$$$

but nope…

[Monty1]

1) Instead of providing the 30k credits as a reward for the early level up, just give the 30k for successfully completing the tutorial instead.

So lets think about that. A new player joins, finishes the tutorial, gets 30k credits. Spends those on cases/loadout/mercenary, then joins in a random game of execution via quick join. If he has great time, well, then that is great. If he does not, why play another round? There are other games.

Thus, if you need to go up a level or two to get that sum, it will act as an incentive to try again even if the first experience was rubbish. Therefore increasing the probability of this player staying around, and possibly grant him some insight on what he would like to buy. (See the loadouts used by others, observe what the different mercenaries do.)

So how about a smaller credit bonus for going through the tutorial? (If it doesn’t already.)

2)For each merc, when purchased or gained access through rotation, only allow them to be added to the active squad after the correspondent merc role call has been watched. Of course, role calls for those mercs who don’t have any should be made.

So what happens when a player decides to switch a mercenary to another while waiting for the match to start? What happens then? Those role calls last over a minute while the next match starts in less than a minute. Will the player be kicked out automatically, or will the teammates kick him out for being AFK?

Now, if those mercenary role calls are to be added anywhere, it is on the window where individual mercenaries are bought. For example you click on Bushwhacker, and there is a button to make the role call video play out. (A chance to see what the mercenary is all about, before you buy, and no one is forced to watch anything against their own will.)

3)Maybe look into individual tutorials for each merc. There is valuable knowledge to be learned in certain cases. Things that aren’t immediately obvious. I’m thinking Rhino’s right click spinning the minigun, longer charge on pads gives more health, direct hit with ammo packs reduces ability cool down, etc.

So… You are talking of 17+ tutorials? A number that becomes increasingly obsolete with more time spent on the game. All those things can be picked up as you play the game, either by asking or observing how another player in your team does something.

Thus, what you ask is time spent in area design, and scripting various scenarios. It is surely doable, but I’d rather have them fix the Ammo based support experience.

4)Add tips during loadings. Also add tips for the merc one died to during the respawn waiting time (able to turn those off in options though)

Tips on loading screen is a good idea, and they just need to request the community to write some 280 character long tips. As for showing them to players on re-spawn waiting queue: that time is better spent looking at what other players are doing. (Hints for where enemies are, and how your teammates die.)

5)Add and advanced movement tutorial. Long jump, wall jump and combo explanation.

Tips on loading screens aren’t enough for you?

…
…
…

@Lumi asks for so many tutorials that I must wonder if he can manage to use a toilet without first going through one.

[MarsRover]

[quote=“Lumi;19927”]1) Instead of providing the 30k credits as a reward for the early level up, just give the 30k for successfully completing the tutorial instead.

So lets think about that. A new player joins, finishes the tutorial, gets 30k credits. Spends those on cases/loadout/mercenary, then joins in a random game of execution via quick join. If he has great time, well, then that is great. If he does not, why play another round? There are other games.

Thus, if you need to go up a level or two to get that sum, it will act as an incentive to try again even if the first experience was rubbish. Therefore increasing the probability of this player staying around, and possibly grant him some insight on what he would like to buy. (See the loadouts used by others, observe what the different mercenaries do.)

So how about a smaller credit bonus for going through the tutorial? (If it doesn’t already.)
[/quote]
Good point. So let’s split it 50/50 between leveling up and tutorial.

So… You are talking of 17+ tutorials?A number that becomes increasingly obsolete with more time spent on the game. All those things can be picked up as you play the game, either by asking or observing how another player in your team does something.

If this was true then we wouldn’t have this discussion

[quote=“Monty;106564”]@Lumi asks for so many tutorials that I must wonder if he can manage to use a toilet without first going through one.
[/quote]
You certainly need a tutorial on how to not to be a dick.

[Monty1]

[quote=“Monty;106564”]So… You are talking of 17+ tutorials?A number that becomes increasingly obsolete with more time spent on the game. All those things can be picked up as you play the game, either by asking or observing how another player in your team does something.

If this was true then we wouldn’t have this discussion :)[/quote]
There is a bunch of new players in game, they will learn with time. Because everyone does.

[quote=“MarsRover;106571”][quote=“Monty;106564”]@Lumi asks for so many tutorials that I must wonder if he can manage to use a toilet without first going through one.
[/quote]
You certainly need a tutorial on how to not to be a dick.[/quote]
Oh, have I hurt the sensibilities of thee? Oh, how I hope not to beseech thee with such lack of courteousness in the future! Tis’ I shall most nobly swear!

But in all honestly… If you do consider a typical visit to a loo, especially with the multitude of operable objects starting with doors and ending with body parts, not to mention all the possible different cultural customs you might get tangled with. I do not believe you could argue against the benefits of providing a tutorial, should someone possibly require it.

So, if they do go around and those, 17+ tutorials, I must demand that they also add one about using the toilet. Just to be sure.

[Supa1]

As you already know, there are unfortunately those people that play the game the way they want to and will not have any willingness to learn. HOWEVER, there are SO many people who want to learn the game but there really aren’t that many resources that come from the game itself.

If A brand new player wants to learn something in-game, he practically has to wait until someone scolds him for doing or not doing something, and a lot of the time they aren’t aware they are doing anything wrong.

For those who do their research outside of the game and take the time to look up information on what each class does usually don’t have that problem, but some people plainly want to play the game. For these people, I think a stronger set of tutorials would be beneficial.

I wouldn’t say MAKING them do it would be a good option. Personally, I think it should just be available. but for those players that have a burning desire to learn, multiple tutorials covering all essential ground should certainly be an option.

Your suggestions are great, especially 3+5. I think there should be a tutorial over every class (Field Ops, Soldier, Medic, Engineer, Covert Ops) and include every merc under each category.

I would also like to see actual scenarios within those tutorials. For example, in a Sparks tutorial, there would be a downed friendly on the other side of the room. To move onto the next park of the tutorial, you would have to revive the player from a distance with the Revivr.

[Lumi]

[quote=“Monty;106564”]So lets think about that. A new player joins, finishes the tutorial, gets 30k credits. Spends those on cases/loadout/mercenary, then joins in a random game of execution via quick join. If he has great time, well, then that is great. If he does not, why play another round? There are other games.

Thus, if you need to go up a level or two to get that sum, it will act as an incentive to try again even if the first experience was rubbish. Therefore increasing the probability of this player staying around, and possibly grant him some insight on what he would like to buy. (See the loadouts used by others, observe what the different mercenaries do.)

So how about a smaller credit bonus for going through the tutorial? (If it doesn’t already.)
[/quote]

You’re right, I didn’t think of the immediate cash intake. Would be bad to give them such money without them knowing on what to spend it. Maybe some ratio just as @MarsRover proposed would be an option.

[quote=“Monty;106564”] So what happens when a player decides to switch a mercenary to another while waiting for the match to start? What happens then? Those role calls last over a minute while the next match starts in less than a minute. Will the player be kicked out automatically, or will the teammates kick him out for being AFK?
[/quote]

Who would buy a merc and not put him/her in his/her squad immediately? Besides, it would be easy to disallow the adding of said merc to the squad as long as you didn’t watch the role call from the main menu. In any case, making it a pre requisite or not, the role calls need to be easily available from the game, looking for them on youtube shouldn’t have to be a necessity.

So… You are talking of 17+ tutorials? A number that becomes increasingly obsolete with more time spent on the game.

Said number can be easily contracted when combining tutorials. You don’t need to have a Sawbonez tutorial if you have a sparks one, etc. Now regarding people learning with time I must disagree. Level 10 people and over seem to be at a total loss sometimes and if people would learn with time we would have a much bigger high level player base. What happens is that many people leave early on, because they’re frustrated since they don’t get the game.

Tips on loading screen is a good idea, and they just need to request the community to write some 280 character long tips. As for showing them to players on re-spawn waiting queue: that time is better spent looking at what other players are doing. (Hints for where enemies are, and how your teammates die.)

I remember during the launch of open beta someone starting a thread to get those hints, but it never had any follow through with splash damage unfortunately. Maybe @Faraleth should create a hint gathering thread that would be transmitted to the devs. I assume he has better connections than any of us mortals XD.

@Lumi asks for so many tutorials that I must wonder if he can manage to use a toilet without first going through one.

Even you had to get a tutorial from your parents to be able to use the potty. We all went through that tutorial. Your comment is just as relevant as giving a level 200 player a tutorial on how to aim…

[Izzy]

The best way to learn is still fail and retry. You can make them do as many tutorial as you want, it still won’t be as rewarding as finding yourself solution to your own problem e.g: “Hoooo, if I play medic and I help my team, we win” or “Hooooo, if I long jump, I go faster and save my ass”.

Now, this is why low level are segregated into lvl5- servers. Problems: Not every lvl5- goes to lvl5- servers, pissing off impatient lvl10+ and not every people learn at the same pace, sooo higher lvl (5-10) doesn’t mean someone good, and a low-lvl (5-) doesn’t mean noob.

That’s the problem with level, is that we use them since ages while we know it barely represents any skill. Standard skill factor never relies on the amount of hours you played.

Now, I am pretty sure DB use a some sort of skill-factor to balance even pub games. Easy to see when you have the two highest levels in the same team, and find out that one of the two is really bad. Maybe they should rely more on this indicator to unlock access to differents servers (low skill = learners one one side, high skill on the other).

Off-topic, I d be glad to see the algorithm to compute the skill factor. Has anyone saw it?

[TheAcidpiss]

[quote=“Izzy;106710”]The best way to learn is still fail and retry. You can make them do as many tutorial as you want, it still won’t be as rewarding as finding yourself solution to your own problem e.g: “Hoooo, if I play medic and I help my team, we win” or “Hooooo, if I long jump, I go faster and save my ass”.

Now, this is why low level are segregated into lvl5- servers. Problems: Not every lvl5- goes to lvl5- servers, pissing off impatient lvl10+ and not every people learn at the same pace, sooo higher lvl (5-10) doesn’t mean someone good, and a low-lvl (5-) doesn’t mean noob.

That’s the problem with level, is that we use them since ages while we know it barely represents any skill. Standard skill factor never relies on the amount of hours you played.

Now, I am pretty sure DB use a some sort of skill-factor to balance even pub games. Easy to see when you have the two highest levels in the same team, and find out that one of the two is really bad. Maybe they should rely more on this indicator to unlock access to differents servers (low skill = learners one one side, high skill on the other).

Off-topic, I d be glad to see the algorithm to compute the skill factor. Has anyone saw it?[/quote]

The best way to learn is try and try again, but when I see level 10’s ADS’sing at an enemy 3 feet infront of them, will they ever learn?

When I first decided to play the game it was from a you tuber jack frags, I was curious so I searched more vids on dirty bomb… learned a lot just from that.

And even then, before I started playing I looked at the guides on this forum. And learned even more.

And then I started meeting other people that played the game and learned even more from them!

I finally taught myself how to long jump without a script at around lvl 16 because I came to realise how helpful this thing can be.

But a lot of people just jump in and think " its just a shooter, how hard can it be"

Its these people that need a tutorial more extensive than the one we have atm. Hell if there was even a tip in the loading screen that said something like
“Only aim down sight at long ranges, your hip fire is accurate enough for most situations!”

this would improve the gameplay for new players EASILY by half at the very least!!

since 90% of this game is about shooting fricking people!!

[Izzy]

[quote=“TheAcidpiss;106725”][quote=“Izzy;106710”]The best way to learn is still fail and retry. You can make them do as many tutorial as you want, it still won’t be as rewarding as finding yourself solution to your own problem e.g: “Hoooo, if I play medic and I help my team, we win” or “Hooooo, if I long jump, I go faster and save my ass”.

Now, this is why low level are segregated into lvl5- servers. Problems: Not every lvl5- goes to lvl5- servers, pissing off impatient lvl10+ and not every people learn at the same pace, sooo higher lvl (5-10) doesn’t mean someone good, and a low-lvl (5-) doesn’t mean noob.

That’s the problem with level, is that we use them since ages while we know it barely represents any skill. Standard skill factor never relies on the amount of hours you played.

Now, I am pretty sure DB use a some sort of skill-factor to balance even pub games. Easy to see when you have the two highest levels in the same team, and find out that one of the two is really bad. Maybe they should rely more on this indicator to unlock access to differents servers (low skill = learners one one side, high skill on the other).

Off-topic, I d be glad to see the algorithm to compute the skill factor. Has anyone saw it?[/quote]

The best way to learn is try and try again, but when I see level 10’s ADS’sing at an enemy 3 feet infront of them, will they ever learn?[/quote]

Well, for this kind of guy, I am not sure a tutorial would have helped either.

Quote of the day: Imagine how stupid is the most average people, and imagine that half the population is even more stupid.

[signofzeta1]

Do you know what helps new players? Offline Practice Mode. It is possible to do something like this by using the console to switch to the map of choice, then you can run around to do stuff, although you can’t do any objectives because the match won’t start without a second player, and you can’t get a second player because it is offline.

Do you even know how useless I felt because I was running around getting lost in the maps?

[n-x]

Why not just explain it to them in-game. I had several times the situation, that I was defusing the bomb and 2 others came running an started to defuse as well. Of course, 2 seconds later we were all dead meat. I told them in teamchat, that one person is enough to defuse, that there is no advantage in more people doing it at once.

Respawn, I run back to the bomb start to defuse. Of course, one of the guys come running to me. And what does he do. Body shield me.

Seriously, how many times did you see how somebody with a higher level screamed at a beginner “you fucking newb”? Yes, he is a newb, we all were at one point. So why not use those 1-2 chatlines for explaining and helping him instead of yelling at him?

It would also make a way better impression on somebody regarding the community.

[signofzeta1]

I can understand why people would defuse the bomb or construct the objective when someone is already doing it. In Wolf ET, ETQW, Wolfenstein 2009, and Brink, if 2 people did the objective, the objective completes faster. Old habits are hard to get rid of.

When I started playing dirty bomb, I used to always defuse or repair when someone is already defusing or repairing, not knowing that it didn’t make the defuse or repair progress any faster, because in ET and ETQW, if you have 5 engineers construct the objective at the same time, the progress goes 5x as fast.

[MarsRover]

Why not just explain it to them in-game.

Because I’m sick and tired of being the tutorial? Actually I’m even past that, I’m indifferent now. It was fun first 50 times, but now I just want to play

[CCP1151]

Have L4D2 styled ingame tips that pop up and tell you what to do and what not to do.

And of course an option to turn them off in the game options.

[SereneFlight1]

Seriously, how many times did you see how somebody with a higher level screamed at a beginner “you fucking newb”? Yes, he is a newb, we all were at one point. So why not use those 1-2 chatlines for explaining and helping him instead of yelling at him?

I do both… “REVIVE FFS!”… even tho I shouldn’t… any medic with common sense wouldn’t run into enemies instead of reviving those two teammates who are lying in the ground but nooooooooo, medic’s gotta get some action too… or then they just stare at you, thinking “there has been a murder! I have to find out who the murderer is”

However, the funny thing is that when you’re trying to help your teammates by explaining something, they try to vote kick you… or at least that’s what have happened to me every time I tried to be nice.
I tell them to wall jump out of fire -> vote kick time!
I tell that you can block enemies with healing and ammo station -> vote kick time!
I tell that it takes only one guy to plant the c4/ repair ev -> vote kick time!
etc. etc. etc.

[n-x]

[quote=“Kelben;107180”]Seriously, how many times did you see how somebody with a higher level screamed at a beginner “you fucking newb”? Yes, he is a newb, we all were at one point. So why not use those 1-2 chatlines for explaining and helping him instead of yelling at him?

I do both… “REVIVE FFS!”… even tho I shouldn’t… any medic with common sense wouldn’t run into enemies instead of reviving those two teammates who are lying in the ground but nooooooooo, medic’s gotta get some action too… or then they just stare at you, thinking “there has been a murder! I have to find out who the murderer is”

However, the funny thing is that when you’re trying to help your teammates by explaining something, they try to vote kick you… or at least that’s what have happened to me every time I tried to be nice.
I tell them to wall jump out of fire -> vote kick time!
I tell that you can block enemies with healing and ammo station -> vote kick time!
I tell that it takes only one guy to plant the c4/ repair ev -> vote kick time!
etc. etc. etc.[/quote]

Ok, seems that we had different experiences. The most I get is a “ok”.