So you think Brink's dead on consoles, eh?


(wolfnemesis75) #61

I think Brink accomplished something on Console, where ET:QW did not: Got more in the forefront of the console generation with Brink breaking some ground in the process. Go back and look at all the critiques of Brink and you’ll see that many really liked the game, but wanted more. But I believe that Brink had to establish itself first and foremost similar to some other games like Darksiders, and games of that ilk like Bulletstorm. Newer Ip games.

The polarizing nature of Brink has a lot to do with all FPS games being compared to COD, the pop standard. If you will. Hopefully, there will be more Brink, and by enhancing key areas of the game that were a success and pushing some of the limitations or perceived faults, an even better game can come out of this. That’s why its not dead. Shadowrun maintained a devote following. Unlike the Dev that made that game, SD found better success with Brink although both games have a love it or hate response from some gamers. Brink has so many cool concepts at work, that its hard to call it dead, because those elements that stand out and the fun aspects outweigh the negatives, and keeps me personally, thinking about the Ark.

I’d like to delve deeper into the story of the Ark. I know I am not the only one. :slight_smile:


(ArchdemonXIII) #62

[QUOTE=.Chris.;385068]Just picking these bits out as rest was fine.

They managed to get new customers which was great, however where are those costumers now? Brink was plagued with problems on release, how the sound and UI bugs got into the release candidate I’ll never know. Bugs aside the actual game just didn’t do it for the market they were trying to crack, the game is too involved for the average joe who just wants to shoot his mates’ face in, they suspected as much when they designed Brink and tried to make it as accessible as possible. This resulted in a game that was neither here or there, sure some liked it and got a lot out of, but people on both sides of the coin were left wondering what could have been.[/Quote]

I’m willing to concede that the bugs played a large part in killing Brink. The unfortunate reality these days is that when a game gets released in that state, it’s the usually publisher demanding the game be out now as opposed to when it’s ready. When you look at Dev teams that release “when it’s ready” (Valve, Blizzard, regardless of whether you actually like their products) it’s because they self-publish.

Unless you can point me to specific link that says that they tried to make it more accessible because “the game is too involved for the average joe who just wants to shoot his mates’ face in”, I’m going to go with the more likely possibility that they made it more accessible either because without an established brand, you need to appeal to the average player, or even more likely, that an “accessible, team-based shooter” is what Bethesda paid SD to make. W:ET and ETQW were MP games based on existing IPs with a hardcore fanbase built in. It made sense to target them. Bethesda’s recent track record on the other hand, is anything but hardcore-focused.

I think you’re bit quick to assume that the old timers here will only support SD if they make a game to suit them.

I guess I should have pointed out that I was addressing the extremes. I’m sure there are reasonable old-school SD fans on here, and the BHC guys really should learn not to post things that are the equivalent of “haha you’re wrong!”. But when 2-3 posts in a row within this very topic call anything they say some variation of “herping the derp”, it’s a little harder to find them at fault.

It also helps nothing to pull the attitude that past experience with shooters automatically trumps a newbies opinions. Old school gamers have a pre-existing bias. New gamers have a fresh perspective. Both sides are capable of remarkable insights as well as stupid garbage. You have to have faith in the devs to have a clear enough vision to know which is which.


(zenstar) #63

[QUOTE=ArchdemonXIII;385101]I’m willing to concede that the bugs played a large part in killing Brink. The unfortunate reality these days is that when a game gets released in that state, it’s the usually publisher demanding the game be out now as opposed to when it’s ready. When you look at Dev teams that release “when it’s ready” (Valve, Blizzard, regardless of whether you actually like their products) it’s because they self-publish.

Unless you can point me to specific link that says that they tried to make it more accessible because “the game is too involved for the average joe who just wants to shoot his mates’ face in”, I’m going to go with the more likely possibility that they made it more accessible either because without an established brand, you need to appeal to the average player, or even more likely, that an “accessible, team-based shooter” is what Bethesda paid SD to make. W:ET and ETQW were MP games based on existing IPs with a hardcore fanbase built in. It made sense to target them. Bethesda’s recent track record on the other hand, is anything but hardcore-focused.
snip…[/QUOTE]

I’ve noticed that Bethesda games all seem to “come out rough” and then get patches to bring them in line. Brink, Rage and Skyrim have all been released in a state that require very quick patching.
Brink had a whole host of bugs and lag issues, Rage had all sorts of texture issues (and something else on console that I wasn’t paying attention to) and now I read there are issues with Skyrim’s textures if you install the game on Xbox (low tex not loading their high tex versions? and some crashes during load) and Skyrim on PC has generated a bunch of complaints and patch requests.
I stopped buying Bethesda games after Brink. I felt a bit used by their marketing, releasing, packaging of preorder dlcs and generally bad customer connection. (What? I pay for 4 costumes and get 3 extra because I got one in a pre-order and Joe Blogs who didn’t preorder pays the same but gets 4 extra? Yeah, that’ll keep faithful customers happy and convince them that you’re not trying to have unconsensual relations with their wallet.)

I also agree with you on Bethesda probably pushing to make the game more accessible, but (at least on PC) they could have addressed the issue with customizable options. The big complaint about the interface is the “one button does everything” issue. They could easily (if coded with this in mind) have a checkbox for “one button action interface” and “individual buttons” which could be configured so that buffing actions no longer open the CP because you happened to accidentally be aiming the wrong way as someone ran past (as an example).

Console development will not go away and it shouldn’t go away. They are a good market to tap into with a massive audience and a massive profit base. That doesn’t excuse a company from neglecting one of the platforms however. The argument would still be the same if the game didn’t work as expected on a PS3 but worked fine on everything else.
I still say that it should have been tailored to the individual platforms better, but then this point probably boils down to Bethesda again since it takes time and money and by the look of things Beth is trying to get into our wallets as quickly as possible.

Sorry SD but if you’re sticking to Bethesda then you’re saying goodbye to me as a customer (just like id, and I used to be a diehard id fan). It may seem stupid but until I think Bethesda’s business practices are more customer friendly I’m not supporting them. I have plenty of other things to play and plenty of other publishers who are willing to be more careful about their releases and how they treat their customers.

EDIT coughhorse armourcough
(I couldn’t resist adding that)


(Ruben0s) #64

Skyrim is pretty awesome though. I bought it because of the SDK. Some bugs have already been eliminated by hardcore fans.


(zenstar) #65

Yeah. I hear that it is awesome but there are a lot of awesome games out there. I can understand some issues on release (I didn’t mind Brink’s issues too much but they weren’t that bad on PC) and understand early adopters’ issues, but when it’s every title, every time it brings forth a pattern of profit over quality that I don’t respect at all and I can’t give my money to a company that’s just going to burn me again.
In contrast: Deus Ex: Human Revolution - I preordered and didn’t have a single issue and thouroughly enjoyed the game. It had a PC specific interface (they had another company come in to do it to make sure it was up to scratch) and I didn’t notice any bugs at all (apparently some suffered some stutter but I never saw it). It came across as a quality product and I didn’t feel abused after having purchased it.


(ArchdemonXIII) #66

Are you referencing courier’s stash for F:NV? If you’re saying they should’ve sold the pre order packs separately so you’re not paying for content you already have, I’ll agree. If you’re implying pre order stuff should be exclusive to the people that pre-ordered and not be sold down the road, I disagree. If the content exists, and people are willing to pay for it, they should be able to buy. It’s bad enough we had to wait a year to get to buy packs that are only useful for early game. I think what companies should do is have bonus content available day one that’s free with pre-order. That way it still an incentive to pre order but you’re not denying sales to paying customers who might otherwise “acquire” it by other means.

EDIT coughhorse armourcough
(I couldn’t resist adding that)

Naturally. :wink:


(zenstar) #67

I mean they should have sold things individually or had additional packs that catered for some people owning a costume already. I was going to get them all until I saw how they were packaged. I didn’t bother picking any of them up (just kept the 1 I had from my preorder) and walked away with a bad taste in my mouth.
As for preorder exclusives… I’m torn. I do like being able to get the content if I didn’t preorder, but I also like having something special that I got for being first in when I do preorder.
But after weighing all the points I’d have to agree that in the end it’s better that most preorder becomes available to buy. The company gets more money to fund further development and the community is generally happier.
I think the ultimate solution is similar to TF2’s solution. Preorder bonuses are “genuine quality” items (with greeen names) and store bought items are normal quality with white names. You could achieve a similar thing with the Brink preorder by having a single colour for the costumes being preorder only. Everyone can get the 4 costumes but only preorder guys can wear the “purple chick” version (or whatever) if they want.
But ultimately I guess it’s better that everyone has access to all the costumes even if the preorder folk lose all exclusivity.

EDIT:
I wish they’d do away with the whole “if you order from A you get X bonus but if you order from B you get Y bonus” bull too. That annoys me no end. If they do that then I agree with you. Make all that stuff available day 1 and give the exclusive version free with the preorder.


(ArchdemonXIII) #68

[QUOTE=zenstar;385127]
I think the ultimate solution is similar to TF2’s solution. Preorder bonuses are “genuine quality” items (with greeen names) and store bought items are normal quality with white names. You could achieve a similar thing with the Brink preorder by having a single colour for the costumes being preorder only. Everyone can get the 4 costumes but only preorder guys can wear the “purple chick” version (or whatever) if they want.
But ultimately I guess it’s better that everyone has access to all the costumes even if the preorder folk lose all exclusivity.[/QUOTE]

I’m not opposed to alternate versions, but it should be more subtle than entire colors. for example you could have a beret as a special item. The on you buy is just a beret. The pre-order one has some sort of special forces emblem that makes it a little cooler but essentially the same item.

The other option is non gameplay/basic appearance related gifts. For example if you preorder you get your name displayed in gold as opposed to the standard white. Maybe have an icon that appears next to your name, like a star. That way you get the bonus of having your avatar/name stick out without really depriving anyone else of content. Planetside at one point implemented a medal system that displayed on your shoulder for achievements, even things like having played for 2 years.I thought that was pretty nifty.

EDIT:
I wish they’d do away with the whole “if you order from A you get X bonus but if you order from B you get Y bonus” bull too. That annoys me no end. If they do that then I agree with you. Make all that stuff available day 1 and give the exclusive version free with the preorder.

100% agree on this, but unfortunately this is more a case of extortion on the part of the retailers. Gamestop has enough clout to say “Hey, you want us to sell your game? We want an exclusive pre-order bonus”

Wanna talk about a wack pre-order bonus? I pre-ordered FEAR 3 and my bonus was a really cool revolver… That only appears in MP and then only when you’re in the equivalent of the Downed Fire position.:rolleyes:


(zenstar) #69

[QUOTE=ArchdemonXIII;385133]I’m not opposed to alternate versions, but it should be more subtle than entire colors. for example you could have a beret as a special item. The on you buy is just a beret. The pre-order one has some sort of special forces emblem that makes it a little cooler but essentially the same item.

The other option is non gameplay/basic appearance related gifts. For example if you preorder you get your name displayed in gold as opposed to the standard white. Maybe have an icon that appears next to your name, like a star. That way you get the bonus of having your avatar/name stick out without really depriving anyone else of content. Planetside at one point implemented a medal system that displayed on your shoulder for achievements, even things like having played for 2 years.I thought that was pretty nifty.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah. I’d be happy with a little star or golden name or something.
As you say: it doesn’t need to be big. Just a little “thanks for having faith” would be great.

100% agree on this, but unfortunately this is more a case of extortion on the part of the retailers. Gamestop has enough clout to say “Hey, you want us to sell your game? We want an exclusive pre-order bonus”

Wanna talk about a wack pre-order bonus? I pre-ordered FEAR 3 and my bonus was a really cool revolver… That only appears in MP and then only when you’re in the equivalent of the Downed Fire position.:rolleyes:

That’s horrible. You’d think with digital distribution on the rise the brick and mortar stores would be trying to be more compliant, not more difficult to work with. I really dislike the attitudes that the gaming stores have nowadays.
And this is why I’ll support steam and Desura for all my PC gaming purchases that I can get through them.

Slightly more on topic though:
Tycho from penny arcade said a few words about Brink. I’ll Quote below:

Everywhere but its mobility stuff, Brink always had a kind of anachronistic, slightly askew-of-time feeling. In a shooter, that’s not necessarily a bad thing. “Old school” is generally a term of endearment; we often like it when someone honors the ancient totems. It launched somewhat raw in the middle, and I don’t know how well it stuck - my server browser shows a lot of ghost towns. Observing the game’s fondness for couture unlocks and its “mingleplayer” ambitions, I’ve been wondering if it wouldn’t have seen more success as free-to-play product than he traditional boxed shooter. I love the bones of the game, and I think a reinterpretation along the lines of a Lord of the Rings Online would serve it very well.

I leave that to you to interperet how you will.


(ArchdemonXIII) #70

Y’know I actually had a similar thought about Brink as an F2P game. The people that really care about customization will buy clothes/alternate weapon skins etc. (personally I like it, will use it, but it doesn’t make or break the game). Then they can keep the game updated and just make clothes and it’ll keep people playing. The only reason I see it not working is the system requirements being a bit rough for F2P.


(zenstar) #71

Yeah. I mentioned F2P ages ago when things started declining (I think TF2 had recently gone F2P but I don’t remember the timelines exactly).
The big problem is it’s a major overhaul to change it to F2P and even then I don’t see that working out on consoles so much.

APB went F2P after it collapsed but that also took another company buying it out and doing some big changes to the whole thing too. Guess it’s not an easy decision and not something Beth would be convinced of, especially for a new IP (unless it had plenty of unarmoured horses in it ofc).


(ArchdemonXIII) #72

[QUOTE=zenstar;385280]Yeah. I mentioned F2P ages ago when things started declining (I think TF2 had recently gone F2P but I don’t remember the timelines exactly).
The big problem is it’s a major overhaul to change it to F2P and even then I don’t see that working out on consoles so much.

APB went F2P after it collapsed but that also took another company buying it out and doing some big changes to the whole thing too. Guess it’s not an easy decision and not something Beth would be convinced of, especially for a new IP (unless it had plenty of unarmoured horses in it ofc).[/QUOTE]

+rep. lol.


(Ruben0s) #73

@OP
http://www.gamefly.com/game/ps3/Brink/138890/CriticAndUserReviews/userreviews/

4500 reviews from ps3 users.


(FightsInTheShade) #74

[QUOTE=Ruben0s;385299]@OP
http://www.gamefly.com/store/game/ps3/Brink/138890/

4500 reviews from ps3 users.[/QUOTE]

According to Gamefly Brink is now worth a whopping $5.99. lulz? lulz. See ya later “Splash Damage.” :cool:


(Ruben0s) #75

they deleted your post :blush:


(FightsInTheShade) #76

I wonder why. lmao.


(Ruben0s) #77

@wolfnem

http://www.gamefly.com/game/xbox-360/Brink/138885/CriticAndUserReviews/userreviews/

10000 reviews on the xbox360 xD


(wolfnemesis75) #78

[QUOTE=Ruben0s;385307]@wolfnem

http://www.gamefly.com/store/game/xbox-360/Brink/138885/

10000 reviews on the xbox360 xD[/QUOTE]I already own a copy. But thanks.