So, no chance for server side hit detection ?

(ragnak) #1

I do think that the main problem with consistency in dirty bomb is poor hit detection to the point that it feels like a p2p game.

Dying behind wall isnt something rare, it happens every time i try to hide in a duel. I can see blood coming out of my character but there is no damage, it obviously happens when i shoot enemy as well (thats why it sometimes feels like i need whole smg mag just to kill one person).

It does feel like there is at least 100ms delay (on top of your ping) before anything registers when you shoot people and at times it feels like people see you before you see them (and i doubt that its preshooting).

Most games on UE are laggy so i guess it wont change, but i hope that it at least will get better =/.

(BioSnark) #2

Those times when you are fighting someone and you both kill each other with hitscan weapons…

(Glottis-3D) #3

there is indeed a window around of 100ms, in which the registered hits from a ‘dead’ person are taken into account.

(AssortedStuff) #4

I got a few screenshots of situations like that. Unfortunately it happens to me regularly.
Here’s a recent one.

bummerDude.jpg1920×1080 421 KB

(Bangtastic) #5

I dont think you rly die behind cover it isnt like you run several metres and suddenly die. In the screenshot provided above, the sniper simply shot between the metal walls, the small gap. For the delay, its not even a meter you pretty much died on spot.

The thing is ttk is high/ some weapons do not a lot dmg, in general you do need one smg mag per kill.
so it is highly possible that ppl you shoot, can have the time to turn around and kill you for example. but this hasnt to do with how the game handles network data. The game in that prospect isnt laggy, it has only performance issues. Even with a ping up to 200, player models wont lag at all.^^

Btw would be awesome if thin metal walls are bangable^^

(Glottis-3D) #6

this did happen sometimes but only with pings as high as ~200
and it was like a year ago. so prbbly fixed

(Senethro) #7

[QUOTE=ragnak;519536]I do think that the main problem with consistency in dirty bomb is poor hit detection to the point that it feels like a p2p game.

Dying behind wall isnt something rare, it happens every time i try to hide in a duel. I can see blood coming out of my character but there is no damage, it obviously happens when i shoot enemy as well (thats why it sometimes feels like i need whole smg mag just to kill one person).

It does feel like there is at least 100ms delay (on top of your ping) before anything registers when you shoot people and at times it feels like people see you before you see them (and i doubt that its preshooting).

Most games on UE are laggy so i guess it wont change, but i hope that it at least will get better =/.[/QUOTE]

You get that, like, what you see on your game isn’t what really happens, right? Its an approximation at best. There can be as many as 17 slightly different approximations and the only one with any real authority is one on the server. Theres nothing to say your approximation is better than any other players.

Think on that next time you’re lying on the ground behind a box and feeling sour.

(sunshinefats) #8

I think what ppl are getting at is the problem of their perception of what happens. Most of us here understand how latency/lag comp function, but it’s nonetheless frustrating to be killed while [from your perspective] you’re clearly behind cover yet still taking damage “through” it. I get a lot of that too, and yet sometimes, I feel like I can’t miss. It’s a typical scenario in an online fps, yes, of course, but the point is that there is room for the devs to make some [needed] improvements in it so that it’s at least consistent most of the time. My personal gripe against it at this point of time is exactly that…you just can’t pin it down, and therefore can’t really compensate for it well. Add in to that mix that it seems to affect us all to different extents and it becomes your proverbial clusterf*&%. I don’t think any of us expect the impossible(e.g. to have none of it at all), it just needs to be improved a bit more, which I believe is a reasonable request.
That being said I still have a lot of butthurt from the alpha builds where I couldn’t hit anyone at all, so maybe I’m a bit biased lol.

(Protekt1) #9

Even with full server side hit detection, you may feel like you’re being shot behind walls because your position on your end is not the position the server understands. There is always going to be some latency issue involved.

Also, are you even sure it is client side hit detection?

(ragnak) #10

[QUOTE=Protekt1;519752]Even with full server side hit detection, you may feel like you’re being shot behind walls because your position on your end is not the position the server understands. There is always going to be some latency issue involved.

Also, are you even sure it is client side hit detection?[/QUOTE]

Unless my memory fails me there was even someone from splash damage that did in fact confirm that it is client side, long ago. Even if they said that it is server side i would have hard time believing it, because it plays like a client side game. Also if it wasnt true i bet that someone from SD would already correct me.

The only time that i should feel that i die behind wall is when i have 120+ ping (and it wouldnt be far behind wall) or someone is lagging like crazy, its not the case for this game. The main thing that bothers me is that back in the day hit detection was a lot more reliable than it is today while we have better tech and connections right now. I rarely felt that something was wrong when i played any idtech3 game, old ut games or even lesser known games, right now almost every modern game is pretty much inferior to games that was made 10 years ago and i have hard time accepting that when i know it can be better( a lot).

The only reason i can see for client side hit detection is cutting costs as it supposedly take less bandwidth than server side hit detection, why else would they use it ? Its easier to hack it, it isnt even close as reliable and there are strange things happening that would never happen on server side detection.

In the end i just want it to get better, its pretty bad right now (sure, not as bad as battlefield or some other modern games, but its still bad).

(Sun_Sheng) #11

To avoid duplication, have a read of http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/41170-Hit-Reg and also another part of that thread http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/41170-Hit-Reg?p=507965&viewfull=1#post507965 which should explain everything

(Floris) #12

The netcode does seem to be a bit flaky. I remember when I just started playing and had some gfx card issues my frame rate would be crap but my ping would be great (around 4). It’s strange that FPS affects ping. Nowadays with my gfx card issues fixed I ping around 16 on average (with a gigabit connection) and the kinds of issues described happen a few times a day.

In a few months I will be in Japan connecting to European servers on a VPN, so I will be able to experience the entirely opposite end of the spectrum.

(sunshinefats) #13

Having been on the other end a few times I can tell you that while it is a little more consistent in some regards, it’s still very flaky hehe

(INF3RN0) #14

Only time I feel disadvantaged is around 250+ ping. It’s still pretty playable, but the damage delay is much more noticeable.

(Protekt1) #15

Is it actually client side? From what I understand UE3 uses a mixture of client side detection and server side verification. So you could see a shot connect but it takes your ping x2 for you to get the hit indicator because the client must first send the info and then receive the verified hit.

(Mustang) #16

Ping is the send and receive times combined, not just one of the other.

(Floris) #17

That confused me as well, if it was purely client side I could send spoofed packets allowing me to kill any opponent in the server. Actually, if you google you will find that some cheats allow you to do just that. Doing hit detection on the client side without proper server side validation actually violates network security 101: Never trust data send by the client.

(Silvanoshi) #18

Whether they know it or not, when people talk about client side hit detection these days, they’re usually referring to client side hit detection with server side verification. The vast majority of modern PC MP shooters use this setup, as does Dirty Bomb. There are pros and cons to each method, none of them are perfect. Even if everyone on a server has low ping server side hit detection will still throw up odd instances where things seem to be quite a bit off.

While plenty of people have their own opinions, client side detection with server side verification generally provides the strongest overall experience for the majority of players, even for low pingers, yes. Clearly latency related oddities will still occur, there will be moments that you can point to and call BS; that’s going to happen no matter which method is used. On the whole however, client side hit detection with server side verification is the way to go.

(ragnak) #19

Sorry but thats bull****. I am well aware that its a hybrid system but it doesnt change the fact that its inferior to what we had in ET or Q3, so no its not overall better unless you want to talk about high pingers because then you indeed profit from such a system.

If you try to tell me that people with 40 ping will have better experiance on a hybrid system than pure server side hit detection, then i doubt that anyone with experiance with both would agree.

I dont die behind walls on server side hit detection

My bullets register 99.9% of the time on server side hit detection

I never experiance strange bull**** on server side hit detection (unless someone lag like crazy).

Artifical ~100ms lag isnt present on pure server side system.

The only time things go wrong on pure server side its when server/players are lagging but it would be even worse on hybrid system.

So tell me, what does hybrid system offers to low ping players over pure server side hit detection ? I seen less bull**** in ET/q3 after playing for years than in few hours playing dirty bomb, how is that a way to go when its a straight downgrade ? (at least from players perspective).

(Anti) #20

It doesn’t matter how much experience they have, neither system is better than the other, they just deal with higher latency in different ways.

You have to understand that when you ‘die behind a wall’ you were never actually behind the wall at the point the shot happened, when your killer fired and killed you you were in the open. If you’d have been behind a wall at the point of the shot the server would not have validated the shot.

The issue here is that the message telling you that you have been shot is slow to reach you in some cases, meaning by the time the kill is confirmed you might be a few millimeters out of line of sight, but that is a delay in letting you know the result, not that the result was an actual shot through a wall.

The benefit you gain with this system is that medium range latency values are still very playable (say 70-100ms) compared to server side detection. The downside is occasionally you find out some information slightly later than it would have happened on server side.

The important thing is that when you die you should have died, you were not behind cover when they actually took the shot.

It doesn’t help that right now the Death Ghost system makes this look worse than it is, as we fix up the way it traces shots I think less people will be getting confused about this issue.

EDIT: TL;DR
Client-side - You hit what you see and send that to the server. Sometimes you find out you died late
Server-side - You hit what the server assumes you were seeing. Sometimes you’ll have to lead enemies due to latency