So, no chance for server side hit detection ?

(INF3RN0) #21

I don’t reg 0.01% of the time in DB at 200ping, while in ETQW it was the exact opposite. Anything lower and all the bullets hit all the time, unless I’m missing or don’t understand my weapons spread mechanics. The only time I’ve ever seen a proven example of no-reg was when the servers were lagging for everyone and a video syku showed me, otherwise it was always a ton of over/under/spray aiming. Most times it’s the classic Freze logic of “any good player is unhittable”, and yet I can’t replicate it. TLDR; reg won’t fix aim.

(Anti) #22

In investigating ‘hit reg’ issues our experience has been the same so far. Whenever people have provided us with videos of bad reg we’ve found what they are experiencing is generally issues with spread, hit feedback, hit box size etc, rather than reg issues. Those are things we’re still keenly looking at and to improve on to make the guns feel accurate and reliable.

(ragnak) #23

Which still leads to the point that server side is still more accurate than client side and anything below 120 ping was still just fine in idtech3. I exactly have the problem with the delay and i know why i die behind a wall, thats the issue. I shouldnt have to work around delays and start running behind cover 100ms faster because what i see is always behind whats happening.

I still cant see how a hybrid system is better than pure server side detection and your post didnt exacly prove your point. (and sorry making game more playable for people with high ping at the expense of everyone else isnt exactly a good reason for me).

Cant really comment on etqw as i never tried to like it so i didnt play it but hit reg is still a ton better in old idtech3 games. Fact is that there are bullets that does not register in dirty bomb, there was non in et (heavy lagging/PL aside). I couldnt care less how good the hit reg is with 200 ping, i cant even remember when i had 200 ping and my connection isnt even good.

Even if you believe that every shoot register, there is still a ton of problems with client side detection that didnt happen in ET/Q3, and protecting inferior system doesnt lead to anything good.

TL:DR: Most people doesnt lag and its unfair to punish them so you can play with ping 200.

(Anti) #24

[QUOTE=ragnak;519880]Which still leads to the point that server side is still more accurate than client side and anything below 120 ping was still just fine in idtech3. I exactly have the problem with the delay and i know why i die behind a wall, thats the issue. I shouldnt have to work around delays and start running behind cover 100ms faster because what i see is always behind whats happening.

I still cant see how a hybrid system is better than pure server side detection and your post didnt exacly prove your point. (and sorry making game more playable for people with high ping at the expense of everyone else isnt exactly a good reason for me).

Cant really comment on etqw as i never tried to like it so i didnt play it but hit reg is still a ton better in old idtech3 games. Fact is that there are bullets that does not register in dirty bomb, there was non in et (heavy lagging/PL aside). I couldnt care less how good the hit reg is with 200 ping, i cant even remember when i had 200 ping and my connection isnt even good.

Even if you believe that every shoot register, there is still a ton of problems with client side detection that didnt happen in ET/Q3, and protecting inferior system doesnt lead to anything good.

TL:DR: Most people doesnt lag and its unfair to punish them so you can play with ping 200.[/QUOTE]

If you have latency over around 70-80+ms on a server side system, you have to start leading every target, by varying amounts depending on your latency. On client side the only impact is occasionally you die a bit later than you should have. Personally I’d find the one that affects every shot I take quite a bit more frustrating than an occasional delay after I died, but each to their own :slight_smile:

(Senethro) #25

I like pressing the mouse button when my magenta dot is over someones head and getting a hitsound. I do not like having to lead by varying amounts depending on my ping.

Therefore ragnak is objectively wrong.

Objectively.

(Szakalot) #26

[QUOTE=ragnak;519880]

Cant really comment on etqw as i never tried to like it so i didnt play it but hit reg is still a ton better in old idtech3 games. Fact is that there are bullets that does not register in dirty bomb, there was non in et (heavy lagging/PL aside). I couldnt care less how good the hit reg is with 200 ping, i cant even remember when i had 200 ping and my connection isnt even good.

Even if you believe that every shoot register, there is still a ton of problems with client side detection that didnt happen in ET/Q3, and protecting inferior system doesnt lead to anything good.

TL:DR: Most people doesnt lag and its unfair to punish them so you can play with ping 200.[/QUOTE]

I’ve never seen a bullet go no-reg in DB, and there was plenty of that in QW, some in W:ET. Playing with 120ping on a good etpro server made k/d drop by half

(ragnak) #27

[QUOTE=Senethro;519882]I like pressing the mouse button when my magenta dot is over someones head and getting a hitsound. I do not like having to lead by varying amounts depending on my ping.

Therefore ragnak is objectively wrong.

Objectively.[/QUOTE]

The only time you need to start leading would be around 90-100ms (most people have ping way below that), but every draw back to client side hit detection will be with you all the time, as such i cant be objectively wrong. High ping does not affect me and majority of players (+ i did point out that client side is better for laggers, at the expense of of everyone else, which is simply unfair).

Dont know about QW but i played ET for 5 years and i never had a single no reg, ignoring the time when my connection was losing packiets or i was lagging like crazy or when the person i shoot had a connection problems.

The only time i had problems in et was pron abuse, which was more of a hitbox problem rather then hit detection problem.

(INF3RN0) #28

Client side is better for LAN players. You hit what you aim at… pretty damn simple. It’s a hard counter to no-reg and the worst case scenario is that at high ping you might die a few ms after you get behind cover, even though you were really killed in the open. This is some of the most fair and playable netcoding I’ve ever experienced in online gaming, period. I think your most likely struggling with the small hitboxes in DB, as ET hitboxes gave you a huge amount of room for inconsistent aim reg.

(ragnak) #29

Did you even play ET at lan ? I never had any issues when playing at lan so i fail to see how can client side possibly be better (and i always did hit what i was aiming for in ET, be it lan or not, connection issues aside).

I never died behind cover in ET unless i was lagging or the person that killed me did, which was to be expected when the person that killed you had 300 ping.
I am kinda confused on the fact that you think i cant aim for **** or that the lack of hit registration is the biggest problem for me, when in reality its the never ending delay and the fact that laggers get a crutch that they shouldnt have got.

No registration isnt as common and it did save me a few times (mostly visible against shotugns/snipers when you see your character bleed but there is no damage, and no it wasnt friendly fire).

Yea, netcode where everyone get at least 100ms artifical lag so people with 200 ping can play just fine is super fair and it doesnt screw up people when they plan on turning behind cover just before they die (which was pretty common in ET) but it will never work as they are already dead.

I get that you are a lagger so you find it fair, but not everyone enjoy artifical lag as much as you do.

(INF3RN0) #30

It’s obvious to me now that you’re off your rocker. Laggers have no crutch in this game, anymore (even if they sorta/kinda did in pre-alpha). Gl fixing your lag or reg or aim or glasses, really have no idea what you’re talking about at this point because the only other people I see complain about this are people like Freze (QQ king), those trying to play with 20fps, or simply inconsistent aimers. Some of us just try to keep the facts straight so as not to waste time on non-issues.

(ragnak) #31

What facts ? FACT is that there is a delay on registration, FACT is that you die behind the walls (which is pretty easy to prove) and the fact that you seem to believe that q3 have worse netcode is pretty silly at best.

When servers get online and i still feel like it then i might as well record the time when i get shotgun shot in the face without losing hp but you would probably use some excuse for that as well.

(INF3RN0) #32

You obviously don’t understand and refuse to comprehend how the server-side damage calculation system works, so until you do then nothing here will make sense lol…

(ragnak) #33

You are getting annoying with your kindergarten attitude. Denial is a pretty bad habit. On a bright side you are the first person to reach my block list here, be proud as i rarely add anyone to such lists :).

(chippy) #34

So is hubris.

(sunshinefats) #35

Just to butt in here for a moment and give you something to read while you cool down…In terms of being hit behind walls, we all can agree it happens(seems the argument is currently more about why it does), and that it will always be there. It’s there in pretty much all fps games to some degree…it’s the nature of the beast as they say.
Personally, I just want it minimized as much as possible and I don’t really care how that’s accomplished. If the devs think that client side is the way to go and that they can tweak that to within a good range then I must defer to their expertise on that.
That being said, I did have it happen in ETQW too. As often? No, but we’re still in beta and they’re still working on it. And really, at this stage in development, it’s probably too late to go back and try server side now, so it’s kind of a moot point. What we should hone in on now is how to improve the current system rather than wishing about what we think should have been.

In terms of hit reg on the offensive, what I personally notice most often is that my hits DO reg(on my side) but I don’t get credit for them (due to the various issues already mentioned) and it gives me the perception that I’m emptying a clip into someone, and landing multiple hits, and they just don’t die. I wish I had saved it, but I had a video where you can clearly see me get 7-8 hit markers (all body shots) on a medic class and he doesn’t die(or even take very much damage). Might make you think BS, right?

When I watched the movie in slowmo it appears(that’s the key word) that I’m getting hits in the center of his chest. But given that we were both strafing like mad and there’s an inherent(albeit very slight) delay between what you do and the feedback you get for it, I just assume that my shots must have been hitting him in the elbow or something. But, of course, that’s not what it LOOKS like. On screen, the dot is in the middle of his chest and I’m getting a hit marker(but was that marker from that exact moment? probably not.) So, again, a perception issue.

In that regard it’s similar to when the other player looks like he’s facing away from you yet he’s getting hits. Logically you understand he must be facing you and the game just isn’t keeping up, but that’s not how it looks and that makes you scream BS. Now, again, I have a basic understanding of why this happens, and also that it, like the behind walls thing, will always be there to some extent, and I can accept that. I just would like it to be more consistent. Right now, for me, it’s more of a coin toss. Sometimes I get the hits and sometimes not. Sometimes I’m shot behind the wall and sometimes not. So when I’m complaining about hit reg, I’m complaining about the inconsistencies with it, which from what I’ve read is something that’s being worked on.
When Anti mentions about hit feedback that seems to hit the nail on the head for my personal situation in terms of my shots not killing. It makes me think, well I must not be getting accurate feedback on my shots or something. Likewise, there is a lengthy discussion in another thread(where the devs also chime in) about the players seeming to face away from you,etc. so that gives an explanation for that as well. The important thing for me is not debating whether one method is better than another for handling this, it’s knowing that the devs are “keenly aware” of the issues with their current implementation and are working on it. And that’s what we want ultimately, right?

So I guess my point here is that you’re both pretty. ;p

(Njsfirth) #36

I never have as many issues as you guys. I don’t understand where all these problems come from. Occasionally i’ll get hit behind a wall but i just take it as given and deal with it. That’s how online games work, sometimes you got shot around a corner.

I have 20 ping to all the EU servers, never many problems with ping issues.

(Senethro) #37

Why are we even talking about LANs and games released prior to most nations widespread broadband rollouts?

Not relevent anymore. Haven’t been in a long time.