SNITCH buff (updated)

[frostyvampire]

I already made a post about buffing Aimee before, but it was a long time ago and that post had already died + I thought about something new

As we all know, Aimee is currently 90% a weaker version of Vassili. While she is faster and can make enemy players take 25% more damage, Vassili beats her in anything else. Better weapons (primary and secondary), more useful and spammy spotting device and more health. Also she is very similar to him in her playstyle (unless Grandeur) and all that stuff
So we need to fix it to make Aimee a bit stronger and make her equally good as Vassili, maybe even better than Vassili but require more skill to use.

While I don’t think her weapons or stats need any change, SNITCH could see a nice buff, here’s a list of what would balance it (in my opinion):

-Double the vertical range, allowing it to spot enemies from more height

-(Optional but it would be nice) Since SNITCH is some kind of a camera, a cool thing would be to make it do more camera stuff; anyone within’ SNITCH’s range will be not only spotted, but you and your team will also see their health bar, name tag and what merc they are. Example: Frosty Vampire (Vassili) - 110hp (the 110hp should appear under my name).

-Give SNITCH an EMP effect.

-Make it so debuffed players are also spotted and the other way around
This also means that Spotter augment will also increase the defibrillation range instead of just the spotting range

-Destroying SNITCH should NOT increase the cooldown and reclaiming it should return 80% of the recharge (revert update)

-Decrease the debuff time to 5 seconds (from 7)

-Enigma augment should also decrease the debuff time. So you will only be debuffed/spotted for 2 seconds if you have it

[Dawnlazy]

Definitely agree with increasing the vertical range, of course not infinite like it used to be but it’s often hard to hide it low enough to not lose too much range.

[frostyvampire]

@Dawnrazor
Of course not infinite, that was way too OP. I remember how it was when Aimee was just released
Double would seems fair to me but of course this doesn’t have to be the exact value

[SweetGenocide]

I agree with everything, but honestly, seriously why would you give Aimee a grandeur, she already is a squishy 90 health merc, i mean redeye dosent suffer this problem because he haves more health than aimee, why not give her another sniper rifle like the MOA or a new one, but still the SNITCH really needs to be the most powerful tool from Aimees kit, without it she might not be so great and popular.

[Equanimity]

Movement speed is really powerful and is a worthwhile trade off for her lower health. Redeye’s mechanics are pretty powerful in general, and especially in combination with the PDP, but I personally think the grandeur suits aimee incredibly well. Her playstyle with it is a bit more aggressive than any other recon (except for phantom but he is in an awful spot right now imo). You want to use the snitch in the same ways as always, except mid and close range being a new, viable option. deploying the snitch in a close range spot that allows for debilitation of nearby enemies, essentially on the fly, is very potent. Being able to 1 tap headshot any mercs 100hp or lower is insanely powerful. Grandeur Aimee is amazing against lighter mercs, which really seem to be dominating pubs presently.

Thinking about it that’s my new dream cobalt: grandeur Aimee. drool

[Drac0rion]

I like the vertical range suggestion, rest of the ideas seem like an overkill to me.

My real issue with Aimee is mostly the spotting range and hiding it. Usually it’s rather hard to hide it well while still giving it the perfect line of sight. But I guess that’s more of an issue of having a sniper plant it either from a long range or having the sniper come close to plant it.

My suggestion would be to also have the Snitch fly straight.

[frostyvampire]

@Equanimity
I got G52 Aimee in cobalt 3 times in a row. It sucks, I only find Grandeur useful in Terminal because it’s a map where you mostly have mid-range fights which is what Grandeur excels at. All other maps are mostly long range (except Underground which can also be good for Grandeur on attack but on defense you can still snipe with a FEL-IX so I prefer having bolt action there too)

@Dracorion
We need to make Aimee a viable option over Vassili. I thought about making it fly straight too but then it lowers the skill level of the merc (because you don’t need to think too much before you throw it) and if we do that, some other buffs will have to be removed. What I would like to see Aimee as is a harder to play merc (requires more skill and experience to use) but huge rewarding, Vassili is high risk high reward but his HB sensor is easy to use. Aimee should be very high risk, huge reward and it will be hard to find a good spot for the SNITCH but if you manage to do it it it will be really useful

[yesser]

i think the emp and the debuff would be too much like that you will oneshot any low health with the felix (in the body) (and mathematiquly phoenix will barely survive with 2 health) i agree with you for the idea of giving detailed information (maybe showing deployable could be nice too) and dealing low dammage could be nice ( it would even one shot 80 healths with the felix and the camera

[arcaneCanvas]

I agree with everything, but honestly, seriously why would you give Aimee a grandeur, she already is a squishy 90 health merc, i mean redeye dosent suffer this problem because he haves more health than aimee, why not give her another sniper rifle like the MOA or a new one, but still the SNITCH really needs to be the most powerful tool from Aimees kit, without it she might not be so great and popular.

you dont know the power of buffed grandeur
i can melt thunder from afar with grandeur.

[ClemClem7]

@agileBeetle
I don’t see what you’re saying. At the moment, a snitched low Hp merc (80 - 100) is OS with a bodyshot. OP just make it so it don’t OS phoenix anymore. It’s less powerful on this point than now.

[ProfPlump]

[quote=“FrostyVampire;30733”]I already made a post about buffing Aimee before, but it was a long time ago and that post had already died + I thought about something new

As we all know, Aimee is currently 90% a weaker version of Vassili. While she is faster and can make enemy players take 25% more damage, Vassili beats her in anything else. Better weapons (primary and secondary), more useful and spammy spotting device and more health. Also she is very similar to him in her playstyle (unless Grandeur) and all that stuff
So we need to fix it to make Aimee a bit stronger and make her equally good as Vassili, maybe even better than Vassili but require more skill to use.

While I don’t think her weapons or stats need any change, SNITCH could see a nice buff, here’s a list of what would balance it (in my opinion):

-Double the vertical range, allowing it to spot enemies from more height and be hard to see

-Since SNITCH is some kind of a camera, a cool thing would be to make it do more camera stuff; anyone within’ SNITCH’s range will be not only spotted, but you and your team will also see their health bar, name tag and what merc they are. Example: Frosty Vampire (Vassili) - 110hp (the 110hp should appear under my name).

-Give SNITCH an EMP effect, disabling any buildings within’ it’s range. The buildings will be re-enabled and work again the moment the SNITCH is removed (30 secs passed or it was shot/reclaimed)

-Instead of dealing 1 point of damage when you get spotted first, make the SNITCH do 1 point of damage every second you are in it’s range, this applies to both enemies and buildings.

-Make it so debuffed players are also spotted, but the extra info (health and all that stuff I suggested before) will only be shown if you are in SNITCH’s range, leaving it will hide the extra info

-Health stations will not remove the debuff, but they will make it run out twice as fast

But with buffs also come nerfs, because we don’t want the SNITCH to be overpowered…

-Decrease the debuff time to 5 seconds (from 7)

-In ranked, the EMP effect will also disable and damage your team’s buildings. But it won’t damage you or your teammates

-Destroying the device will remove the debuff/spot effect from all it’s targets. Reclaiming or having it despawned automatically (after 30 seconds pass) will NOT remove the effects

-The debuff will increase damage taken depending on the merc’s max health. Here’s a list (can be changed) for merc health and debuff damage bonus:
80hp (Aura/Sparks) - 10%
90/100hp (Kira, Aimee, Proxy, Phoenix) - 15%
110/120hp (Fletcher, Bushwhacker, Nader, Arty, Sawbonez, Skyhammer, Stoker, Vassili, Redeye, Phantom, Turtle?): 20%
Above 130hp (Fragger, Rhino, Thunder): 25%
The FEL-IX will still be able to one shot 90hp mercs but not 100hp (Phoenix shall survive)[/quote]

I think all these changes need to be implemented except for:

1. the suggested repetition of the 1 damage effect (which would be INCREDIBLY frustrating if you can’t find the snitch and it ends up killing you, plus the snitch already prevents them from healing anyway, so this change would only give you cheap and frustrating kills)
2. the ‘EMP’ effect (why would we want to disable BUILDINGS? wtf? or do you mean ‘deployables’…? )
3. and finally the ability to immediately end the debuff/spot effect as soon as you shoot the snitch(which is dumb because the snitch barely lasts any time in competitive play after it has spotted the enemies - at least one enemy will have Bomb Squad, and that Snitch will be down in a matter of seconds, which means that, with the change you suggested, the debuff would be completely inconsequential. The one good thing about the snitch’s 7 second-long effect is that it lasts AFTER the Snitch is gone and so even if an enemy does kill the Snitch they still have to wait off for 7 seconds or run into battle with a debuff, which also makes me think that your reduction of this 7 seconds to 5 seconds is also a bad idea).

Also, your suggestion of ‘the debuff will increase damage taken depending on the merc’s max health’ looks like you’ve balanced it only for the FEL-IX. If this were implemented, the Grandeur on Aimee would be complete shite, since it wouldn’t be able to 1-shot-headshot Proxy, Kira, other Aimees or Phoenix any more. Sure, you’ve said that these percentages can be changed, but the fact that you haven’t considered, at all, how these changes would effect guns other than the FEL-IX shows that you really haven’t taken any consideration of the broader implications of these suggested changes.

For the most part, though, your changes are good ideas - I just think your changes would make Aimee even worse for competitive play (albeit better for pubs) and would also make her Grandeur worthless as a primary weapon choice.

[ProfPlump]

I agree with everything, but honestly, seriously why would you give Aimee a grandeur, she already is a squishy 90 health merc, i mean redeye dosent suffer this problem because he haves more health than aimee, why not give her another sniper rifle like the MOA or a new one, but still the SNITCH really needs to be the most powerful tool from Aimees kit, without it she might not be so great and popular.

The Grandeur is actually amazing on Aimee if you learn how to use it (and trust me - it takes a LONG time to learn it properly). With it’s ability to hipfire targets, you can strafe MUCH faster while firing than you could with a PDP/FEL-IX, which makes you an absolute pain in the arse when you’re countersniping a Vassili. On top of that, her Snitch allows her to 1 shot Proxy, Kira, other Aimees and Phoenix with a headshot (or 2 body shots) which is incredibly useful.

And anyway, it’d be shit if she got a MOA instead, since the MOA is pretty much the exact same as the FEL-IX anyway - it’d just make her more boring by giving her 2 guns that are exactly the same. I would actually love it if she could get a Blishlok as one of her primaries, because I think that’d be really interesting to see how well those guns could combo with the Snitch (seriously though, imagine a Blishlok with a Snitch - that’d be able to 1 shot Auras and Sparks’ in close-medium range with a headshot!)

[frostyvampire]

@ProfPlump

1. 1 DPS is not much, instincts say to run away from the spot if you can’t find the SNITCH instantly, it most likely won’t kill anyone with more than 3hp
2. Yeah I meant deployables. The reason this is useful is because you will be able to place it near health stations and they will be disabled until SNITCH is destroyed or despawned
3. If they increase the vertical range it will be easier to hide the SNITCH because you will be able to hide it in higher places where pretty much no-one without bomb squad will see it. But maybe the “remove debuff if you destroy SNITCH” can be removed, this is just my suggestions and obviously nobody can know exactly how it will work until we test it ingame

Grandeur headshot does 80 damage, 80*1.15=92. Still 1 shot on 90hp mercs, just not Phoenix. If you realized, FEL-IX bodyshot does 79 damage which is less than Grandeur headshot so anyone who dies from a FEL-IX bodyshot would also die if that were a Grandeur headshot instead. PDP headshot will still 1 shot Phoenix and do 108 damage to 110/120hp mercs, which is fair because PDP shouldn’t do that much damage, even 108 is too much

Thanks for your opinion

[ProfPlump]

[quote=“FrostyVampire;188601”]@ProfPlump

1. 1 DPS is not much, instincts say to run away from the spot if you can’t find the SNITCH instantly, it most likely won’t kill anyone with more than 3hp
2. Yeah I meant deployables. The reason this is useful is because you will be able to place it near health stations and they will be disabled until SNITCH is destroyed or despawned
3. If they increase the vertical range it will be easier to hide the SNITCH because you will be able to hide it in higher places where pretty much no-one without bomb squad will see it. But maybe the “remove debuff if you destroy SNITCH” can be removed, this is just my suggestions and obviously nobody can know exactly how it will work until we test it ingame

Grandeur headshot does 80 damage, 80*1.15=92. Still 1 shot on 90hp mercs, just not Phoenix. If you realized, FEL-IX bodyshot does 79 damage which is less than Grandeur headshot so anyone who dies from a FEL-IX bodyshot would also die if that were a Grandeur headshot instead. PDP headshot will still 1 shot Phoenix and do 108 damage to 110/120hp mercs, which is fair because PDP shouldn’t do that much damage, even 108 is too much

Thanks for your opinion :)[/quote]

My bad on the debuff percentage changing calculations - I read the 90/100 HP merc debuff as 10% for some reason…

But anyway, I would seriously suggest that you don’t add so many suggestions in one post. Just stick to a small number of changes and try not to reinvent the wheel too much - otherwise it just gets confusing and overcomplicated.

[frostyvampire]

@ProfPlump
Ok, thanks for the tip. Next time I make a suggestion I will try to think about something with less changes to the current system

[Ohsnapkline]

I feel way strong on Aimee she is squishy but I strongly disagree with buffing her snitch in any way since sticking it on any ceiling or flora growing on walls circumvents any of its shortcomings.

she is also way fast which allows me to walk up on enemy’s at close range and spam left click and get away with lots of no scope shots

I also believe Aura countering the snitch is perfectly fine because a half decent phantom can solve that. each Merc should have soft counters against other Mercs

[BlazinFox1]

With over 20 hours logged for Aimee. She’s not always a strait killer. I almost have more assists than anything. The debuff is to allow the person to be killed quick. If you’re out of place then you’re most likely dead. She doesn’t need changed because she’s good enough as is.

[frostyvampire]

@becomingHumdinger
The debuff is good, but if you play against anyone with a bit of understanding of the game, your SNITCH will get destroyed instantly after it defibrillates them and they will get themselves healed or just hide until the debuff wears off. Which makes you wait 30 seconds before being able to use it again. Also SNITCH needs a direct vision with the enemy to spot them, so it’s in danger all the time. Vassili’s HB Sensor can detect through walls and has a radius, unlike SNITCH which is like a camera, so you can throw it in spots where it will never be destroyed and it will detect more people, sure it doesn’t make them take more damage but a sniper headshot is an insta kill anyways and if you bodyshot they will be low on health and will die from a few shots without the need in the debuff. Btw, Aura’s health stations disable the debuff which makes it even worse, EMP on SNITCH would fix it and make it more balanced
Also Vaseline comes with a better set of weapons, first he can use machine pistols and second he has the MOA SNPR-1. The sniper rifles rating is: MOA > FEL-IX >> Grandeur > PDP. Exchanging the best sniper for 3rd place gun doesn’t make much sense.
Don’t forget that Vassili has more health too, while more speed is useful, it’s not as useful on a sniper merc which will camp 75%+ of the time.

Like I said in previous comments, Vassili is currently a high risk high reward merc, what I expect Aimee to be is a very high risk but very high reward. Which means she will be a lot harder to play than Vassili but you get rewarded more

[ProfPlump]

[quote=“FrostyVampire;189552”]@becomingHumdinger
The debuff is good, but if you play against anyone with a bit of understanding of the game, your SNITCH will get destroyed instantly after it defibrillates them and they will get themselves healed or just hide until the debuff wears off. Which makes you wait 30 seconds before being able to use it again. Also SNITCH needs a direct vision with the enemy to spot them, so it’s in danger all the time. Vassili’s HB Sensor can detect through walls and has a radius, unlike SNITCH which is like a camera, so you can throw it in spots where it will never be destroyed and it will detect more people, sure it doesn’t make them take more damage but a sniper headshot is an insta kill anyways and if you bodyshot they will be low on health and will die from a few shots without the need in the debuff. Btw, Aura’s health stations disable the debuff which makes it even worse, EMP on SNITCH would fix it and make it more balanced
Also Vaseline comes with a better set of weapons, first he can use machine pistols and second he has the MOA SNPR-1. The sniper rifles rating is: MOA > FEL-IX >> Grandeur > PDP. Exchanging the best sniper for 3rd place gun doesn’t make much sense.
Don’t forget that Vassili has more health too, while more speed is useful, it’s not as useful on a sniper merc which will camp 75%+ of the time.

Like I said in previous comments, Vassili is currently a high risk high reward merc, what I expect Aimee to be is a very high risk but very high reward. Which means she will be a lot harder to play than Vassili but you get rewarded more[/quote]

Where did you source the ‘sniper rifles rating’ from?

[Ohsnapkline]

[quote=“FrostyVampire;189552”]@becomingHumdinger
The debuff is good, but if you play against anyone with a bit of understanding of the game, your SNITCH will get destroyed instantly after it defibrillates them and they will get themselves healed or just hide until the debuff wears off. Which makes you wait 30 seconds before being able to use it again. Also SNITCH needs a direct vision with the enemy to spot them, so it’s in danger all the time. Vassili’s HB Sensor can detect through walls and has a radius, unlike SNITCH which is like a camera, so you can throw it in spots where it will never be destroyed and it will detect more people, sure it doesn’t make them take more damage but a sniper headshot is an insta kill anyways and if you bodyshot they will be low on health and will die from a few shots without the need in the debuff. Btw, Aura’s health stations disable the debuff which makes it even worse, EMP on SNITCH would fix it and make it more balanced
Also Vaseline comes with a better set of weapons, first he can use machine pistols and second he has the MOA SNPR-1. The sniper rifles rating is: MOA > FEL-IX >> Grandeur > PDP. Exchanging the best sniper for 3rd place gun doesn’t make much sense.
Don’t forget that Vassili has more health too, while more speed is useful, it’s not as useful on a sniper merc which will camp 75%+ of the time.

Like I said in previous comments, Vassili is currently a high risk high reward merc, what I expect Aimee to be is a very high risk but very high reward. Which means she will be a lot harder to play than Vassili but you get rewarded more[/quote]

different snipers do different things, @becomingHumdinger said shes more like an assist character and I agree she kinda is. And I’m alright with that because she tends to be very strong in coordinated groups, yes snitch is countered by Aura but on the flip side Aura is countered by other Mercs as well, Stoker, Fragger, Phantom