Sniping

(Humate) #21

If you try to immediately shoot while in the zoom-in animation it’s not accurate, but it doesn’t really break the usefulness of the weapon.

This. Just learn the timings.

(Apoc) #22

Kay guys, just so you know, im not an idiot, and im not shooting while the animation is still going. I have tested it on an empty server for some time, to confirm it. Turn decals on and shoot at a wall. Try the different timings of shooting, and you will find, if you shoot just after the scope in animation has finished, and your fulling in scope, for about half a second, there is unscoped accuracy. Please try it yourself if you dont believe me, im not making this stuff up or guessing it. Also it doesnt “break” the usefullness, it just makes it ever so slightly less useful, for no reason at all.

Its all well and good saying “just learn the timings”, thats fine, and i can do that, its what i have been doing. But then what we have is a mechanic in the game that no one knows about, meaning the thousands of new players who play the game on release have no idea why their shots arent hitting where they are pointing if they fire quickly but while still waiting for it to fully enter scope. It also means that instead of just having a gun mechanic that works and does not have a hidden timing for no apparent reason, all those thousands of players will also have to learn “the timings” just to compensate for the weapon not working as it should.

Im not sure why there is any objection to fixing a bug in a game in pre alpha, to be honest i cant believe im having to put forward an argument for it.

If you are finding problems in the pre alpha; bugs, inconsistencies or issues and not raising them, or even going as far as to object to them, purely on the grounds of them not breaking the game, or “you can just learn the timings”, then i can’t help but feel that you are misunderstanding the purpose of alpha testing.

(INF3RN0) #23

I just never noticed the delay after the animation ends. I’ve shot at a wall a lot and didn’t see what your describing. I’ll try it again I suppose just to confirm.

(Apoc) #24

Yea its quick, but there. The problem is, it sort of works against your natural reflex, having to wait after its already scoped. Granted its a very very short wait, but in a split second battle, where you merely scope then shoot, i dont think you should be punished for being quick.

(Exedore) #25

It’s 10,000 hours in Malcolm Gladwell’s book “Blink”, but that’s highest-level mastery. And quite possibly not true at all, but that’s for another discussion.

(Exedore) #26

This indeed sounds like a bug. It might be a binary state switch from un-scoped to scoped, whereas it should probably be a ramp from un-scoped to scope over the duration of the animation (and vice versa).

(Breo) #27

I’ve tested the sniper rifles yesterday and it has a delay when your fully scoped it still has the unscoped accuracy for a few ms after the animation. Try to quickscope on a empty server and you will notice it immediatly.

(Apoc) #28

:slight_smile: There we go, some secondary evidence to back me up :stuck_out_tongue:

(ice---) #29

ok but not perfect -> the sniper

the knockback after every shot like in wolf et…it makes me sick…because the crosshair jumps up and i have to aim again.
the game is too fast for it…because u have no time to aim again…because ure dead. it makes aiming too random and slows down the gameplay. if the knockback (and hold breath) is off -> highskilled aiming will be the result.

Thank You Mr. and Mrs. Splash Damage :smiley:

(murka) #30

W:ET recoil was actually perfect. You can simply compensate it by pulling mouse down real hard, but you lose accuracy a bit so it’s a decision between accuracy or rof. Sniper1 is like the etqw sniper, easy to get the hang of, but quickscoping is going to be a long path of training. Sniper2 on the other hand will be useless unless mastered, but the ability to down a player faster when the 1st shot isn’t that accurate is worth it.

(Rex) #31

Ok, it’s about time for some sniper feedback again since I played Cvops all the time on CW yesterday.

To sum it up in one sentence I would say: The damage is about right, but the handling mechanic is broken. It just doesn’t feel right yet.

(We can still discuss if 75% body damage is still too much, or if it should be rather 65%.)

  • [li]Ammo count is too low - 15 shots in total are insufficient. Especially the mag ammo amount with only 5 shots is too little. The sniper is busy most of the time with hitting the reload button.
    [/li]=> Suggestion: Set the ammo count for the mag to 8 and increase the general ammo count


    [li] The visor is huge - it’s still one of biggest weapons to block your view, it rather distracts you from focusing your crosshair
    [/li]=> Suggestion: Decrease the size of the sniper visor to enhance a better field of view


    [li] Zoom distance is too high - difficult to keep the overview over the field with such a high zoom. Also fightson close distances become a serious problem.
    [/li]=> Suggestion: Implement 2 different zoom levels, (maybe even 3)


    [li] Shaking after each shot - Feels very unnatural for me, as you can’t control it and distracts you from preparing your crosshair for the next situation.
    [/li](At the moment there exist even exploits to avoid the shaking, and sometimes there is a random bug and it doesn’t shake as well)
    => Suggestion: Remove this shaking, add instead a constant, slightly unstable movement for the crosshair to keep it balanced. This wouldn’t only require skill by correcting the corsshairs position to keep your aim steady, but also it could be finally controlled without distracting you. I think more players are used to this anyway. :wink:


    [li] Unscoped shots are completely random and hits are base on coincidence or pure luck - let me take QW as example here. Unscoped shots weren’t as random as some thought. In fact to a certain level they were controllable even without using the bug for it. You will also discover them in frag movies done by many different players, so it wasn’t just only luck.
    [/li]=> Suggestion: Make unscoped shots a sure hit at close distances like 1m. I tested it, and you can’t make a hit if you are standing very close to each other. It’s hard to describe it now, because on the one hand the sniper shouldn’t act like a shotgun unscoped, but on the other hand it should be also possible to hit sometimes.
    So in general, I wish to see the unscoped mechanic would become less random as it is now.


    [li] Add a visual feedback when the single reload is finished - implement a bar to visualize when you are ready to fire the second shot.
    [/li]
(Breo) #32

If there are too much ohk on the body (echo stats) I would say reduce the damage slightly like 70% to try it out on the next update?
I want to adjust the zoom :frowning: aswell what about a 2 steps zoom 1 right click medium range, 2 right clicks long range and some crosshair blur when you move? (CS:GO)

Maybe tweak the shake a bit also, I found a real example:

[video=youtube_share;bX1sU5h6_Ks]http://youtu.be/bX1sU5h6_Ks[/video]

(Rex) #33

Why on earth would you want blur? :eek:

(Breo) #34

As a visual indication that the sniper rifle is less accurate? But the scope itself with a clear view:

[video=youtube_share;bnWLdEIbXFE]http://youtu.be/bnWLdEIbXFE?t=34s[/video]

(Samurai.) #35

There’s many parts of CS:GO that are great to translate towards DB, but for me this blur on the sniper rifle isn’t one of them. Firstly i hate it it so much, but also it forces you to basically stand still when you want to shoot. Encouraging static gameplay to get accuracy isn’t really the direction i would want DB to go towards. I think body shoot damage needs to be reduced a little (i was surprised when they increased it)… and make the default zoom level a little less zoomed in, other than that, i do like the way the sniper rifle works atm.

(Rex) #36

I wonder at which point the DB sniper rifle should become less accurate in zoom? The blur would just worsen your field of view again.

(Raviolay) #37

You could do that by scrolling the mousewheel forward to zoom in to the level it is currently at while holding the RMB. Then scroll back if you wish lower your zoom level. In fact you could make it a feature with all weapons when in aim down sights mode, making it less jarring for high FOV folks.

(I know you must not hold the mouse button, however I think it would work if you use click methinks).

(nailzor) #38

[QUOTE=Rex;442055]
(We can still discuss if 75% body damage is still too much, or if it should be rather 65%.)

[ul]
[li]Ammo count is too low - 15 shots in total are insufficient.
[/li]
=> Suggestion: Implement 2 different zoom levels, (maybe even 3)

[li] Shaking after each shot -
[/li]
=> Suggestion: Make unscoped shots a sure hit at close distances like 1m.

[/ul][/QUOTE]

Disagree:
Damage is fine to me, should take 2 body shots to down someone, 1 head shot. If the damage with a body shot was lower than 70 that would be questionable in my opinion.

Ammo count is fine, honestly you should start with less ammo and be forced to rely on a field ops to get ammo not the ammo bins that are everywhere. (this personally applies to all classes, especially a soldier or field ops)

Agree:
Multiple Zoom levels would be nice, but right now there are no maps that are built with certain areas to have sniper battles. Would look forward to this in the future maybe? Have maps where you HAVE to have a sniper to do anything, have long range sniper battles where a medic has to keep on the sniper as a full time job please?

The reload after each shot when zoomed in has got to go, for the simple fact that it is a crazy amount of screen shake. To me it feels like, zoom, shoot, reload - earthquake, finish reloading.

Unscoped shots should hit even at like close ranges of 2-3m with high accuracy, maybe not 100% but should be pretty darn close :wink:

(Rex) #39

[QUOTE=nailzor;442086]
The reload after each shot when zoomed in has got to go, for the simple fact that it is a crazy amount of screen shake. To me it feels like, zoom, shoot, reload - earthquake, finish reloading.[/QUOTE]

I hate everything which distracts me from giving headshots. :tongue:

(scre4m.) #40

I dont get that either.

in CS the scope blur has the single purpose to show the player that his riffle is less accurate. In DB we still are accurate when zoomed in and moving. So blur would be simply foolish here.