Snipers Snipers Everywhere...

(Warboys) #1

So I’ve been matchmaking with random dudes recently and EVERYONE is using a ridiculous number of snipers. The last 3 games have had Pete, Madame and Juan… all with sniper rifles.

I have no idea how to defeat this strategy. I even tried it myself but I’m about 10 levels below everyone I play and they’ve spent their extra gold on Botherers and that massive 7 point sniper rifle. I have Sneaky Pete from the free ‘Like’ promotion, Juan DaCova (who doesn’t come with a sniper) and Madame (my only true sniper).

I can’t compete with long range (haven’t got the coins) so I’m stuck with either trying to tank it (I’ve got Gus, Ivan and the Riot Cop dude)… which doesn’t work, or going for the melee stealth route… which is useless because a single chance to go invisible completely sucks against anyone with half a brain (either sneak up, get them to 50% health and die the next turn… or get killed trying to get into range). That and Madame whatsherface has stealth detection!

I’m a Dota player so I’m sure that maybe I’m just doing something completely wrong, and I’m not blaming the balancing (although dudes who spend the most money will be able to do the 3 sniper strat much easier…), so I’m looking for solutions to this problem.

Any advice is much appreciated. I’m bored of 4 turn games where I go 4v5 the second the bullets start flying because they focus 3 massive rifles on the dude who’s meant to be my tank…

(iamloneliness) #2

English isn’t my mature language so I can’t suggest you in deep

You should add someone in this list.They’re pro.Play with them and learn with them.So many tactic you’ll be find out. :slight_smile:

  • Domm
  • EL-CO
  • Crozzton
  • S4GRAD0
  • ChaosPinhead
  • Bwade
  • and many guys in this board are pro player

Maybe you need to well know the position of the map for cover yourself from rifle
Play with hit and run style by 12 ap character
Or try to kill Mme LaHacque first because she is so usefull and flexible character
Or try to win with Take & Hold condition to force them come to close to you and use your shorter range weapons

GL :smiley:

(Warboys) #3

Well, just got completely raped. Spent 3 turns doing absolutely nothing because I’m too scared to get into range, then I make one ballsy move to try and stop the sheer BOREDOM and I lose my Gus in one single turn.

Abandon game. GG. If this becomes the norm then there’s no point playing anymore.

(Catnadian) #4

Snipers are… interesting. Juan has way too much damage potential if he has the right weapon and you let him get close enough to you, LaHacque is one of the most flexible units in the game, and Sneaky Pete is the best all-around sniper, period. Heavies are particularly vulnerable to getting caught out by or cornered by them, so I could see where you’re having problems with some of your deployments.

The most effective counter to a Sniper is, to be completely honest, another Sniper. Not necessarily three, as any amount of smart play means only one will be necessary.I’d suggest giving Pete or Juan LaHacque’s Botherer and Lahacque an Otto Semi-Auto if you really must. The rest of your squad should focus on DoT (the damage ticks will reveal an Agent’s last known location at the beginning of the enemy turn replay) and LOS control. Your Captain has a passive Detect aura, but depending on what point level you’re playing at, it might be better to supplement it with the Detecto-Sweep Captain ability, which can be thrown in a very forgiving radius, cannot be seen by the enemy when you deploy it (this is important), and has a much larger detection radius than your Captain or the UAV. You might even consider not using Artillery (which is insane) and go with the cover drop and the sweep if you know your opponent’s going to be busting out the rifles.

A number of abilities can stymie snipers: Megan’s mines can be triggered by cloaked opponents, like ones that want to flank you, for instance, which will both betray their position and do a hefty amount of damage, Dee Hatlacker’s Riot Shield is a repairable LOS block that you can move out of the way if you can get a good shot in, and any ability that can push an enemy will ruin their LOS - and depending on how far you knock them and where, can cost them a shot, which can save you up to 90HP of pain. If you do manage to get up close to them (I suggest a knife or a shotgun), Snipers are absolute trash close-up, and the enemy will have to either back up and take shots at you and risk losing their sniper, or spend an entire turn’s AP running them away.

Snipers require more caution, but they’re not entirely uncounterable. The tournament going on might result in a tweaking of some energy costs depending on how much of a sheer dominating force Juan DaCova proves, but in the meantime, just consider all that, and be sure to end your turns in Green cover - ones you can’t get knocked out of, ideally.

(Warboys) #5

Thanks Catnadain, I’ll try and take your advice. Problem is that I can’t afford to get all this stuff… I don’t own Megan, for example, and I don’t have Detecto-Sweep. I’ve got Dee Hatlacker though!

Maybe I’ll figure something out along the way.

(Catnadian) #6

As you level up, it’ll become a bit easier to deal with them. that’s for sure. I tried to keep the strategies based around what you already have or things you might not have considered trying, but best of luck.

(Ranger007) #7

So I see u have 3 agents and 2 sniper weapons. Use both of ur snipers to counter ur opponent’s snipers (better to focus one by one). Madame with otto is a must for me then pick another sniper u like. Bring Artillery to knock thier soldiers out of cover, and also make sure u keep ur own soldiers under cover. For the third soldier, I will bring some 200hp soldiers like Dave to sneak up close enough to throw a grenade and do some shoot and run. Shots from ur snipers, Artillery of ur captain, and dave’s grenade can easily kill a 200-250hp dude in a turn =). Make sure u know what you are doing, and move ur squad in places and give them a surprise on the next turn. Good Luck.

I always used to have Madame+Pete+Dave+Cap in 20pts and barely lost any games

(Catnadian) #8

Also, slight addendum: apparently DoT ticks tracking Agents is going to be fixed. It’s usually still best to catch them with a DoT early, but keep this in mind for future endeavours. You’ll probably have Detecto-Sweep before this becomes a major concern, though

(S4GRAD0) #9

[QUOTE=Warboys;421816]So I’ve been matchmaking with random dudes recently and EVERYONE is using a ridiculous number of snipers. The last 3 games have had Pete, Madame and Juan… all with sniper rifles.

I have no idea how to defeat this strategy. I even tried it myself but I’m about 10 levels below everyone I play and they’ve spent their extra gold on Botherers and that massive 7 point sniper rifle. I have Sneaky Pete from the free ‘Like’ promotion, Juan DaCova (who doesn’t come with a sniper) and Madame (my only true sniper).

I can’t compete with long range (haven’t got the coins) so I’m stuck with either trying to tank it (I’ve got Gus, Ivan and the Riot Cop dude)… which doesn’t work, or going for the melee stealth route… which is useless because a single chance to go invisible completely sucks against anyone with half a brain (either sneak up, get them to 50% health and die the next turn… or get killed trying to get into range). That and Madame whatsherface has stealth detection!

I’m a Dota player so I’m sure that maybe I’m just doing something completely wrong, and I’m not blaming the balancing (although dudes who spend the most money will be able to do the 3 sniper strat much easier…), so I’m looking for solutions to this problem.

Any advice is much appreciated. I’m bored of 4 turn games where I go 4v5 the second the bullets start flying because they focus 3 massive rifles on the dude who’s meant to be my tank…[/QUOTE]

Hello there bro,

Well first of all, the good thing about this game, is more on strategy and mind games, luring them in a position you want, etc etc… This game rewards those who gave more time on planning than those who fight using brute force. Personally, I believe, all of these toons are great, not only the snipers, because as long as they are in a good team chemistry, they can fight they way through. Second, about snipers, uhmm,. I think you should practice in solo campaign: crosshairs crisis. In this campaign, this will teach you things about snipers,. Like you must use the proper cover or moving in and out,. Etc etc etc. Finally, use the field or surroundings. The toons’ abilities are not only ones that you can use to your advantage. :wink:

Have fun and practice more. :slight_smile:

-S4GRAD0

(viper_1) #10

The sinper have more power than other soldiers…

(tinker) #11

wrong wrong wrong wrong WRONG

why should they have more power?
the weapons do nearly do the same damage
otto semi-auto does 40 on max range - about 18 on min range and about 30 in mid-range
hoo-hah AR does 36 on max range - about 23 on min range and about 31 in mid-range
snipers have 1 range more with otto semi-auto. the reason for their usage is that they are simple.

the abilities of the soldiers are mostly even “better” or more powerfull or easier to use than the sniper abilities.
the thing that causes the “imbalance” is the underused support fire. ghost is easier to use and causes more because people nearly never use support fire.

dave with hoo-hah ar — laHacque with otto semi-auto UAV is hard to use - grenade is simple and faster.
spud with hoo-hah ar — pete with otto semi-auto dmg of Headshot is about 25+25 - c4 is hard to use bot does about twice the damage.
ivan with hoo-hah ar — DaCova with otto semi-auto hard to say - the molotov is easier to use but the concussion grenade may be game-breaking.

the same counts for the 6pt and 7pt weapons.

especially on small maps (e.g. market) or some of the new maps where the center field is hard to focus from outside, the soldiers are better than snipers

my advise - use soldiers moreoften - the enemy will be surprised.

with friendly regards
tinker

(Sandpuppy) #12

“wrong wrong wrong wrong WRONG” is an interesting way to start an argument :stuck_out_tongue:

tinker, I remember you saying you play mostly and prefer 14sp games, where the game has a completely different dynamic and your arguments are probably valid (and the game probably better balanced)

if you use 3 snipers with botherer sr (atm I use pete/juan botherers and madame with otto) and gus to put them in place and heal from time to time it gets hard for the opponent to counter - I think they beat more setups than they can be countered with and that inbalances the rock-paper-scissor system

and support fire won’t help much in that case since you need to be in range of the hoo-hah which snipers can easily avoid.
especially when the snipers go invisible, even with detecto sweep it is hard to avoid all 3 without someone getting instant killed by 3 shots from huan or 2 critical shots from pete

only recently switched to 3 snipers instead of 2, and I would agree that they are a bit overpowered, especially on 26 squad points

(Gaster) #13

[QUOTE=Sandpuppy;422233]“wrong wrong wrong wrong WRONG” is an interesting way to start an argument :stuck_out_tongue:

tinker, I remember you saying you play mostly and prefer 14sp games, where the game has a completely different dynamic and your arguments are probably valid (and the game probably better balanced)

if you use 3 snipers with botherer sr (atm I use pete/juan botherers and madame with otto) and gus to put them in place and heal from time to time it gets hard for the opponent to counter - I think they beat more setups than they can be countered with and that inbalances the rock-paper-scissor system

and support fire won’t help much in that case since you need to be in range of the hoo-hah which snipers can easily avoid.
especially when the snipers go invisible, even with detecto sweep it is hard to avoid all 3 without someone getting instant killed by 3 shots from huan or 2 critical shots from pete

only recently switched to 3 snipers instead of 2, and I would agree that they are a bit overpowered, especially on 26 squad points[/QUOTE]

I agree with you.

(Profit) #14

Three snipers are hard to beat. Run your own three sniper build (otto’s are cheap, the botherer is best all around, don’t waste the cash on an Avenger yet) to learn the ins and outs. You’ll win a lot, which will be a nice break, and especially pay attention to how you lose). I run a two sniper build (juan on the botherer, pete with his otto) with Ivan and Kate that munches both sniper and “defense wall” builds pretty effectively that u can pull off with the toons you got - swap Kate out for another Medic if you have to. When it comes to strategy, remember that most sniper builds can’t really hold the center well without giving up their advantage, so just abandon it whenever they’re set up on you or cloaking multiple units, pull your group in tight and push to a safer corner of the map until the snipers are forced to give up their shooting lanes, either to take the center or pursue you. When THEY get out of position push back hard and focus on “trade-off” strategies that accept losses in favor of taking at least 1 for 1 with you.

Best of luck out there!

(Bwade) #15

Im going against domm right now with three snipers for the first and for the the people ive played with you know i only use 1 or none at all and honestly its pretty darn good but im not gonaa use it again because towards the end of the match where you lose a player or two its gets hard to put them in the right place

(tinker) #16

I have never lost vs any “only sniper” or “mainly sniper” setup.
those of you who THINK 3 snipers is so good, go challenge me and we will see where it leads.
I don’t care if 14 20 or 26 pt games.
for this conversation it is good to test the MAINLY snipers or ONLY snipers- those who believe in these setups go challenge me.

I’ll be waiting for you, tourney members need quite long at the moment so I have only 1 game up right now.

edit:

I will ADD the matches and the scores HERE
I will NOT use more than 2 snipers, rarely those 2 at all

(Bwade) #17

^^^^^^^^*dont do it!

(Gaster) #18

[QUOTE=tinker;422255]I have never lost vs any “only sniper” or “mainly sniper” setup.
those of you who THINK 3 snipers is so good, go challenge me and we will see where it leads.
I don’t care if 14 20 or 26 pt games.

I’ll be waiting for you, tourney members need quite long at the moment so I have only 1 game up right now.[/QUOTE]
I sent you.

(Bwade) #19

Im puting my money on tinker

(Sandpuppy) #20

let us know how it turns out :smiley:
tinker is a strong player with very god positioning, I need to get stronger myself before I can try to prove my point against him
right now I think he’ll win no matter what I put up against him, even more so when he knows that snipers are coming :slight_smile:

nevertheless my thoughts are that with players of equal strenght a “mostly sniper” setup has less counter-formations to fear than other setups and the instant kills are great fun but really powerful, especially on a bullet-sponge like huan, who has a fire grenade to sweeten the deal :slight_smile: