Sniper

(signofzeta) #161

Well for my reason why console shooters have aim assist is because they think console gamers can’t aim with a thumbstick, despite years of console gaming.

I’m sure it is possible to not have aim assist in console shooters if the console gamer has had his entire life devoted to console shooters.

After a certain someone “invented” aim assist for consoles, thinking that console gamers are actually “dumber” than PC players, they set a certain stereotype that console gamers in console shooters are “handicapped”, and therefore need aim assist.

All, or most of the classic console 3d shooters like Quake 2 on Playstation, Medal of Honor, and all that stuff NEVER had aim assist. No aim assist. None. RTCW SP has aim assist, but on Xbox live, aim assist is forced off. Never stopped anyone there from attaining true skill.

After the advent of aim assist, people just chose to turn it on because they were too lazy to learn how to use the analog controls.

Console version of ETQW would have been more fun if there wasn’t aim assist. Which means I have to get frustrated because I spent more time on PC shooters as opposed to console shooters.

So I hope that developers don’t pull a stereotype on console gamers because I am sure they know how to use their analog sticks. Too bad the damage is already done, and the advent of aim assist made playing shooters with an analog stick not a skill anymore.

(Stroggafier) #162

Are we now saying that human interface devices are at fault? :rolleyes:

I say, use the tools you are given. In the context of any one platform all gamers are equal. Trying to compare across platforms and declaring one better than another is just silly. “My daddy can beat up your daddy, so nyah nyah!”

Besides, sniper in Brink is not germain to the gameplay regardless of whether one uses platform “A” or platform “B”.

(Apoc) #163

Havent had time to read all these recently, but someone please tell me brink wont have aim assist, i was scanning and saw it mentioned a few times, it cant…someone just confirm it please.

(DarkangelUK) #164

I believe the console version will have aim assist… a slight gravity well towards the player when your crosshair is close.

(signofzeta) #165

BAH, that’s lamesauce dude. Ok, who was the first developer to invent aim assist for consoles? I want to slap them with something.

(DarkangelUK) #166

I think they also mentioned something that replicates the mouse flick using a pad, basically if someone’s shooting you from behind you can do a quick 180 spin to face them instead of dying during the transition.

(Apoc) #167

I will happily provide you with the something. As long as you dont have a fear of tigers.

(BioSnark) #168

Doom had aim assist if you feel like raiding the ID offices :tongue:

(tokamak) #169

Consoles have aim-assist so the amount of effort can be better divided. Instead of having 16 players doing the analogue-aim mini-game they can actually focus on the tactics and movement as well.

(signofzeta) #170

meh, I think that console players have played on consoles for so long, especially shooters that using the analog stick won’t actually make them lose focus on the tactics and movement. Instead of developers treating console shooter control system as a handicapped PC, they should treat console shooters and their controllers as something that is distinct, and using aim assist just spells laziness instead of reinventing a way a console shooter is meant to be played.

Although PC players get the flicking of the mouse, I don’t think game developers should force that kind of thing into console shooters via aim assist. If the console gamers want to do that kind of thing, they would just train their thumbs and crank up the sensitivity to their analog sticks.

So what I’m saying is, PC players have one way of playing the game, while console players have a different way, instead of console players playing the game like PC players, and just add in aim assist to make the game feel like a PC game and not a console game. You understand what I am saying? The only time when you want the console game to have all that aim assist mumbo jumbo is when the game is cross platform with PC online. THAT is the only time. Other than that, aim assist isn’t really needed. If people can learn how to use keyboard and mouse, anyone can learn how to play shooters with an analog stick and aim with that. It isn’t that hard.

The reason why I think mouse is easier for aiming is because I have used mouse longer than I have used a gamepad. I am sure that the console players who have played on console longer than PC would say that the gamepad is better.

And Doom isn’t a 3d game, so it isn’t the first console 3d FPS game with aim assist. My guess would be Halo, but there might be older games that have aim assist that I might not know of. I guess I forgot to mention the 3d part because obviously 2d games have to have aim assist in the z axis.

Lol, speaking of which, I played Quake 2, and Medal of Honor on the Playstation, and I tell you, the control scheme is tough, but once you get the hang of it, and practice in the game, aiming won’t be a problem anymore.

(tokamak) #171

And I’m sure that I, a pretty casual player will kick any pro’s butt if they’re bringing a gamepad to my mouse.

(signofzeta) #172

then in that case, they need aim assist, because it is cross platform. If it is console vs console, then there is no need for aim assist. I also said that PC shooters and Console shooters are distinct from one another, and therefore should not be compared to each other, and I was comparing on why people choose one control scheme over another, not comparing the two. This is due to having played with that control scheme longer than the other, and not the fact that one is easier than the other. It is easier because of practice, not because the control scheme is easier itself.

On average mouse IS better, but what is the point of having to use a mouse if you are going to suck at it, while you are already good with the gamepad right?

If you know how to use both control schemes, then the better. The reason why people say the other control scheme sucks is because of the frustration in using it, and NOT because the control scheme itself sucks. If you know how to use a super awkward keyboard layout, like turning your keyboard vertical, and having your mouse at an awkward angle, you might say it sucks, but to some others, it is probably the best control scheme. Same thing with the controller. Some people are leftys, and that is why there is the southpaw. As awkward as it might seem, you may be able to play console shooters with the controller upside down. A bit hard, but with enough practice, you could be a pro at it.

This is what I think some developers are doing. Comparing keyboard and mouse setup to the gamepad setup. I think they should stop doing that, and if the game can’t be played on a gamepad, then make it a PC exclusive or something. Also butchering the PC versions because they port the console game, like Wolfenstein into the PC. This is why the PC version isn’t that great is because out of a lot of keys on the keyboard, only the same amount of keys as a console controller is used.

PC is PC, and Console is Console. There should never be a line drawn between the two. You could make the same game for PC and Console with the same maps, just that the movement and aiming would be different in the two systems.

I guess I could make an example that Pianos make better music than Guitars.

(shirosae) #173

Pianos are better at playing ten notes simultaneously over a range greater than four octaves.

Guitars are better at bending to hit non-diatonic notes and vibrato.

Pianos are better at playing complex music. Guitars are better at articulating melody lines.

Analog sticks are better at subtle motions than WASD is.

Mice are better at aiming than analog sticks are.

Analog sticks are better for platformers. Mice are better at FPS.

(tokamak) #174

That’s the point. The mouse is better and to stop the game from getting bogged down in an aim mini-game there’s the assist so players can focus on the rest.

(signofzeta) #175

that is because the console versions of the game is trying to be the PC version, while it should be the console version.

PC versions are fast. Console version can have a slower pace, although it wouldn’t be what Brink or ETQW is supposed to be, but it’s a console. Console analog sticks will never be as fast as mouse, and I wish that developers realize that adding aim assist won’t help. I played RTCW on xbox live, and if you have good thumbs, and as long as you are playing against other console players then it is ok.

The point I was making that, there should be a huge concrete reinforced wall between mouse and gamepad. Even if mouse was better, they play FPS games differently from console versions. And didn’t I say that if you have played a console shooter for so long that the game never gets bogged down because you are so skilled unlike being unskilled at using a analog stick and fumbling with it and therefore the game slows down?

Gamepads in FPS is a different experience, not a handicapped experience. If it was cross platform, then yes, gamepads are handicap.

I guess I can’t convince that gamepads are a different experience because you have played with the mouse for so long that you can’t even imagine how it feels like to play with a gamepad for so long. Gamepads for you aren’t good because you always compared it to the mouse. That’s the problem. That is also the problem with developers and aim assist. Always comparing the console version of a game to the PC version. That is not what is supposed to happen. Also thinking like PC player won’t help either. Wishing that your crosshairs could move faster, and twitch like, but you can’t. Forcing the twich like motion to the console won’t help either.

You know why mouse on average is better? Because the FPS genre started on the PC, and console FPS didn’t really take off until the N64 I guess. There are more people who have got used to the mouse setup and therefore mouse is better because more people have been using them. But now, people are playing console shooters as well. Is it because of aim assist? I don’t know. Will taking away aim assist make the console shooters not sell as well? I don’t know. But from the games I have played, taking away aim assist doesn’t ruin the game. It is just that you need to stop thinking like a PC player and play like a console player, using strategies that a gamepad is more better suited for.

I think that shooters that rely heavily on twitch motion should be PC exclusives. This same PC game could be ported to consoles, except that the console versions don’t rely as much on twitch motion.

I also think there is a guitar like instrument that plays like a piano, although you need mallets, but you can pluck the strings. I forgot what it was called. Oh yeah, don’t forget the harp lol.

(brbrbr) #176

[QUOTE=shirosae;211232]Pianos are better at playing ten notes simultaneously over a range greater than four octaves.

Guitars are better at bending to hit non-diatonic notes and vibrato.

Pianos are better at playing complex music. Guitars are better at articulating melody lines.

Analog sticks are better at subtle motions than WASD is.

Mice are better at aiming than analog sticks are.

Analog sticks are better for platformers. Mice are better at FPS.[/QUOTE]

people are DIFFERENT.
some people’s prefer drink tea with salt or meat[instead sugar], some prefer hands[instead womans] and etc and etc.
thats why both marketing and developing/producing NEVER be easy thing.
in ANY industry.

(INF3RN0) #177

[QUOTE=brbrbr;211320]
some prefer hands[instead womans] and etc and etc.
in ANY industry.[/QUOTE]

Win analogy +1

(brbrbr) #178

sure.
actually im prefer woman hands if can’t get woman completely :wink:
actually different womans make different emotions inside me[from explosion in heart to striking horror], just by appearance.

(3Suns) #179

brbrbr? LMAO! Good stuff!

(WhiteAden) #180

he’s got quite the reputation to uphold from the QW forums and also he’s from Russia…